2022 Canada Political Thread

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oldshark

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, The mainstream media will not allow any Conservative government to be elected. In Canada, as well as the United States, the mainstream media practices advocacy journalism and no longer objective journalism. The MSM advocates for left wing ideology and left wing politicians and constantly admonishes any and all conservative thought or politician.
Whenever I open up a new tab on MS Edge or I get the News feed off of my iPhone, it is full of right wing troll crap from the National Post, etc. If you look at CTV here in Vancouver, one of the biggest owners was a prominent Tory. Although I don't have a lot of faith in mainstream media, I disagree that they are stopping the Conservatives. If the Conservatives weren't so hell bent on picking stupid fights, mainstream media wouldn't have anything to say.
 

Drjohn

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Whenever I open up a new tab on MS Edge or I get the News feed off of my iPhone, it is full of right wing troll crap from the National Post, etc. If you look at CTV here in Vancouver, one of the biggest owners was a prominent Tory. Although I don't have a lot of faith in mainstream media, I disagree that they are stopping the Conservatives. If the Conservatives weren't so hell bent on picking stupid fights, mainstream media wouldn't have anything to say.
The mainstream media is being propped up in Canada by the federal Liberals. Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars are keeping these failing media companies afloat.
This isn't some crazy "right wing" conspiracy theory.
It's common knowledge.
I'm not even talking about the CBC, which is just unfiltered garbage being passed off as "Journalism".
 
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carvesg

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Funny that both sides on the extremes of the political spectrum feel misunderstood and ostracized at times by the media .

They can't figure out how to convince the center to move to their perspective. We are a moving target that listen to most media , get the information that we need and discard the rhetoric from the journalists and commentators to form our own opinion.

The far right and far left gotta start having more respect for the people they are trying to convince with their point of view , policies or beliefs.

The mainstream media are in it for profit $ and serve their clientele what they want ( the majority based on polls and/or their target audience) . You want to criticize the mainstream media than you have to realize that you are criticizing the majority which is offensive for a lot of people and a strange way to start a discussion.
 

oldshark

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The mainstream media is being propped up in Canada by the federal Liberals. Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars are keeping these failing media companies afloat.
This isn't some crazy "right wing" conspiracy theory.
It's common knowledge.
I'm not even talking about the CBC, which is just unfiltered garbage being passed off as "Journalism".
Well the money is distributed throughout and goes to the National Post, community papers, etc. Sure, I can really see the National Post and all its affiliates as supporting Trudeau :rolleyes:. Once you get out of the echo chamber, most Canadians see claims like this as garbage. As for the CBC, my opinion is that they are bad but really they love the NDP rather the Liberals. Even more so, the people on the CBC only love themselves. But that is a common issue with reporters.
 

masterpoonhunter

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Back in the heady days of 1980 when Trudeau Sr put out the National Energy Policy. I was a card carrying member of the Western Canada Concept Party and attended a lot of the meetings. Including the huge rally at the Jubilee in Edmonton late 1980. All of these meetings/rallies started off with a lot of exuberance and a real show of the human side of what the whole deal of western alienation meant. Intelligent discussion of how the West was being used to feed the political power centers in Ontario and Quebec (and at that time, Quebec separation was burning pretty brightly). Pretty good and rational ideas of how the separation process could work, economically and politically. But then it all got pretty loopy as the nutters started to get attention and their voices rose up. I remember one meeting when a mid 40's guy was adamant we all needed to carry guns and he had a handgun with him!!

Danielle Smith was the voice of the Wild Rose party, a far right sovereign-ist. I put her in that nutter group and her becoming the UCP party leader is a move that will further divide an already divided Alberta. These far (right/left) ideologies are fucking up our democratic systems and as far as I can see little good is coming from it as the real issues are being left behind. Mind you that is what politics is all about isn't it. Get elected and "oh, did I promise to fix that?"

Oh well, glad there is pooning to take my mind off all this shit.
 
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rlock

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, The mainstream media will not allow any Conservative government to be elected. In Canada, as well as the United States, the mainstream media practices advocacy journalism and no longer objective journalism. The MSM advocates for left wing ideology and left wing politicians and constantly admonishes any and all conservative thought or politician.

Ah, I've heard that hundreds of times, but it's horseshit. Objective? If the media were ever really objective, and still doing real journalism (instead of dumbed-down clickbait), these guys would be completely out of the running.

The private media conglomerates endorse conservative candidates at every election, help them with columnists who just blindly shill for them whenever possible. Plus they have way more money to put the word out themselves, more than all the other political groups combined. Hundreds of lobby groups phony think tanks and so-called news outlets, hashtag mills, insta-protest networks - and even more than that if you count their foreign sponsors, who are definitely interfering in Canadian domestic politics.

Time after time, their movement gives us people who show no respect to anyone else, have a "fuck the world" outlook basically all the time, threaten violence whenever they don't get their way, and now they seem to be all about the kind of "reality ain't real" lunatic theories that would land them in Riverview asylum a generation ago. At some point, the public just does not buy the manure they are selling.

And the punchline of the joke is whenever some of them get outed as psychotic douchebags and fail at the ballot box, they have the nerve to blame someone else - the media, the voting public, or one of their make-believe conspiracy boogeymen. They get more bitter and paranoid with every loss, never acknowledging their own problems (or now, even admitting they were defeated at all). The real problem they have is themselves.

Either two-faced crooks or extremist nutjobs - that's the alternative choice, the government in waiting? No fucking thanks. They can keep waiting and waiting, until they rediscover how to not be assholes - which at this point seems like never.

We need leaders who can actually lead, not idiots, egomaniacs, and slime bags. That's not just meaning one party, but all of them, a general rule that they all seem to fail at these days - at election time, it's just a matter of degrees.

It's like watching a game where one side scores on its own goal 3 times, but still wins because the other side scores on its own goal 5 times. But yeah, let's have the losing team blame the refs or the audience for that result. :rolleyes:
 
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rlock

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Whenever I open up a new tab on MS Edge or I get the News feed off of my iPhone, it is full of right wing troll crap from the National Post, etc. If you look at CTV here in Vancouver, one of the biggest owners was a prominent Tory. Although I don't have a lot of faith in mainstream media, I disagree that they are stopping the Conservatives. If the Conservatives weren't so hell bent on picking stupid fights, mainstream media wouldn't have anything to say.

Internet "news" depends on algorithims that are easily manipulated. You're seeing what makes the most (targeted) noise, not what's actually relevant, or even real.
But the tactic works, because people can only pay attention to what's right in front of them.
 
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rlock

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Funny that both sides on the extremes of the political spectrum feel misunderstood and ostracized at times by the media .

They can't figure out how to convince the center to move to their perspective. We are a moving target that listen to most media , get the information that we need and discard the rhetoric from the journalists and commentators to form our own opinion.

Well, the media has a lot to answer for in failing the public, and to some degree the fix is in, but not in the way one party or another claims. (They only seem upset when the media doesn't blindly do their bidding.)

Once you see how the MSM replaces meaningful content with dumbed-down content that's loaded with filler and subtle manipulations of language, you can't really have faith in them again.
But even their own reporters admit this disillusions them, and if there have one complaint that actually sticks, it's that news organizations generally do what is cheap and expedient.

Also, they're in the weird position of trying to gin-up all sorts of outrage so that there's better ratings, while at the same time being deathly afraid of generating controversy that gets them in trouble.

So, when the mainstream fails, what rushes into that void is like 10% honest but amateur reporting (maybe biased), then 90% cheap clickbait and propaganda (born to be biased) - maybe amateurish or maybe very slick stuff with a lot of dark money behind it, but still bullshit at heart.
 

rlock

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Back in the heady days of 1980 when Trudeau Sr put out the National Energy Policy. I was a card carrying member of the Western Canada Concept Party and attended a lot of the meetings. Including the huge rally at the Jubilee in Edmonton late 1980. All of these meetings/rallies started off with a lot of exuberance and a real show of the human side of what the whole deal of western alienation meant. Intelligent discussion of how the West was being used to feed the political power centers in Ontario and Quebec (and at that time, Quebec separation was burning pretty brightly). Pretty good and rational ideas of how the separation process could work, economically and politically. But then it all got pretty loopy as the nutters started to get attention and their voices rose up. I remember one meeting when a mid 40's guy was adamant we all needed to carry guns and he had a handgun with him!!

Danielle Smith was the voice of the Wild Rose party, a far right sovereign-ist. I put her in that nutter group and her becoming the UCP party leader is a move that will further divide an already divided Alberta. These far (right/left) ideologies are fucking up our democratic systems and as far as I can see little good is coming from it as the real issues are being left behind. Mind you that is what politics is all about isn't it. Get elected and "oh, did I promise to fix that?"

Oh well, glad there is pooning to take my mind off all this shit.

The thing I have always seen with these movement is:
Why do Albertans think the rest of Western Canada would basically submit to being ruled by them, BC especially? How would that be any better for BC than dealing with Ottawa? An Albertan PM proved just as harmful and dismissive to us when in power, so that killed the myth of western solidarity or shared values. If Canada is breaking up, there's literally no incentive for BC partnering up with a lesser province that thinks it can give us orders because it can wave a bunch of money around, and has values that are basically the opposite of ours.

"Once those Laurentian big-shots are gone 'Western Canada' will be free to do whatever the Alberta oil industry wants to do..." - this is a fantasy, not a plan, and certainly not a country. The only thing we have in common is resentment of the eastern establishment / Ottawa / Toronto, and that's not always for the same reasons. Plus let's be honest: every country on earth resents its capital city / national government to some degree, basically just for being in charge at all.

BC basically built itself as an independent colony, before entering Canada, and Metro Vancouver is still the most important city in western Canada. Take away those national ties to Canada, and the whole concept fails the moment you ask what happens if in some post-Canada arrangement, BC decides to assert its own strategic power over Calgary. We would not like to be ruled by them, and I doubt they would like to be ruled by us. Once you split a country, there's no legitimate argument to stop that new state being split again. If Canada broke up, BC being sovereign makes more sense than paying tribute to Calgary the way it once did to Ottawa. And Calgary elites crying out for "[western] national unity" at that point would be an ironic farce.

Well, the point is, I doubt Danielle Smith or the rest of them ever think about the reality of it, but it sounds good to them when they say it to themselves, and that's what counts.
 
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masterpoonhunter

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Well, the point is, I doubt Danielle Smith or the rest of them ever think about the reality of it, but it sounds good to them when they say it to themselves, and that's what counts.
The Echo Chamber effect.
A common malady exploited by those who work to make it a cause.
 

oldshark

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Well, the media has a lot to answer for in failing the public, and to some degree the fix is in, but not in the way one party or another claims. (They only seem upset when the media doesn't blindly do their bidding.)

Once you see how the MSM replaces meaningful content with dumbed-down content that's loaded with filler and subtle manipulations of language, you can't really have faith in them again.
But even their own reporters admit this disillusions them, and if there have one complaint that actually sticks, it's that news organizations generally do what is cheap and expedient.

Also, they're in the weird position of trying to gin-up all sorts of outrage so that there's better ratings, while at the same time being deathly afraid of generating controversy that gets them in trouble.

So, when the mainstream fails, what rushes into that void is like 10% honest but amateur reporting (maybe biased), then 90% cheap clickbait and propaganda (born to be biased) - maybe amateurish or maybe very slick stuff with a lot of dark money behind it, but still bullshit at heart.
I used to have room mate who was a reporter. He used to say that if he couldn't find a story by lunch, he would make one up.

I was also at an event recently where Conrad Black was a keynote speaker. There was no resemblance between the event and the story he later posted in the National Post. What a farce the National Post is.
 

rlock

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I used to have room mate who was a reporter. He used to say that if he couldn't find a story by lunch, he would make one up.

I was also at an event recently where Conrad Black was a keynote speaker. There was no resemblance between the event and the story he later posted in the National Post. What a farce the National Post is.

Didn't he used to own it?
 

oldshark

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Didn't he used to own it?
Yes, Conrad Black founded the National Post as part of his chain. But he manipulated the finances to screw up the investors because he got too greedy. Eventually the courts decided that he wasn't playing square with his investors. Got convicted in the US.
 

80watts

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Yes Canada is finally getting tough with China...

To bad Canada does not have the muscle to back it up.

Really I mean the CAF is under manned and has major equipment problems. Every time a Trudeau gets to office the CAF is decimated with equipment problems and reduction in personnel. Right now Recruitment is at a all time low, making the CAF undermanned.

The new equipment they are getting is defective (It appears to be the normal cost saving idiom where the money managers overrule the expert mechanical advice of veterans/experienced operators). Namely the new arctic ships. Where ever they are getting the equipment (usually a Cdn company), it is second rate if at all (mostly because its a start up company/never operated subportion of a particular company).
Those trucks made in the 90s from Western Star Trucks in Kelowna, were first limited to road driving (supposed to be off-road), and eventually retired after 20 years due to its inadequate design. The problem here was that back in 89, several trucks were tested on the old base in north Ottawa (since closed), where the drivers rated that truck as last, but it could be made in Canada, and that is what the government at the time chose to take, even though it was inferior to the other vehicles tested in Ottawa that year. Political decision and money saving solution. Looks good on paper, but in reality it sucks for the troops who have to take 3rd rate equipment into battle (Europe 1990s).
This is a problem.
Procurement is a problem... Like Ammunition for guns and tanks etc.

When the fuck is the Trudeau family going to learn.... Can't enforce something when you cut the budget for the enforcers. (look at Russia 2022- lack of equipment and training)

Not only that but the equipment is not new, any stuff bought for Afghanistan is 20 years old, oh wait, they rented tanks for that....

The ships they want to send to the Far East, well they are at least hitting 30 years of age..... Undermanned.... Well it won't be, they just borrow personnel from other ships, making those other ships unmanned. The problem here is man power for ships is alloted to 1 man per slot. When it should be higher at 2.5 or greater to make up for leave, coursing, re-qualifying all which can not take place aboard a ship. So if you send someone on a course, that slot on the ship is empty... So when you need to send a ship somewhere, they have to borrow from other ships/units. The most they will be doing is showing the flag....Whatever that means....

Or is this just an excuse to give the undermanned CAF a 8% payraise to bring in recruitment.

Still have that old and crapy equipment. A modern armed force has equipment that is less than 20 years old.

Flapping your mouth at China is not a good idea. To a politician it may be (they think WW2, Suez Crisis and are told the CAF is every bit as good today as then, they are fucken wrong). But not to a ship that is under manned, and has ammunition procurement problems.

Jesus, did I mention the morale problem too..... Going woke in the CAF..... Well I will just say its _________ morale.

You got a army not trained to kill, but to be more emotionally accepting of other peoples feelings (The kinder gentler army).... How the fuck do you kill the enemy then? Not when you are getting mixed signals all the time....No wonder troops are getting PTSD. Someone raised their voice and it scared me.... It stressed me.... How the fuck are these weaklings gonna to protect Canadians. I want mean, green killing machines.....

When I was a teenager there was a shirt with this printed on it:
"Join the Marines and see the world and meeting interesting People; and then kill them." Funny isn't it... Today well....

IMHO
 
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Billiam

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Yes Canada is finally getting tough with China...

To bad Canada does not have the muscle to back it up.

Really I mean the CAF is under manned and has major equipment problems. Every time a Trudeau gets to office the CAF is decimated with equipment problems and reduction in personnel. Right now Recruitment is at a all time low, making the CAF undermanned.

The new equipment they are getting is defective (It appears to be the normal cost saving idiom where the money managers overrule the expert mechanical advice of veterans/experienced operators). Namely the new arctic ships. Where ever they are getting the equipment (usually a Cdn company), it is second rate if at all (mostly because its a start up company/never operated subportion of a particular company).
Those trucks made in the 90s from Western Star Trucks in Kelowna, were first limited to road driving (supposed to be off-road), and eventually retired after 20 years due to its inadequate design. The problem here was that back in 89, several trucks were tested on the old base in north Ottawa (since closed), where the drivers rated that truck as last, but it could be made in Canada, and that is what the government at the time chose to take, even though it was inferior to the other vehicles tested in Ottawa that year. Political decision and money saving solution. Looks good on paper, but in reality it sucks for the troops who have to take 3rd rate equipment into battle (Europe 1990s).
This is a problem.
Procurement is a problem... Like Ammunition for guns and tanks etc.

When the fuck is the Trudeau family going to learn.... Can't enforce something when you cut the budget for the enforcers. (look at Russia 2022- lack of equipment and training)

Not only that but the equipment is not new, any stuff bought for Afghanistan is 20 years old, oh wait, they rented tanks for that....

The ships they want to send to the Far East, well they are at least hitting 30 years of age..... Undermanned.... Well it won't be, they just borrow personnel from other ships, making those other ships unmanned. The problem here is man power for ships is alloted to 1 man per slot. When it should be higher at 2.5 or greater to make up for leave, coursing, re-qualifying all which can not take place aboard a ship. So if you send someone on a course, that slot on the ship is empty... So when you need to send a ship somewhere, they have to borrow from other ships/units. The most they will be doing is showing the flag....Whatever that means....

Or is this just an excuse to give the undermanned CAF a 8% payraise to bring in recruitment.

Still have that old and crapy equipment. A modern armed force has equipment that is less than 20 years old.

Flapping your mouth at China is not a good idea. To a politician it may be (they think WW2, Suez Crisis and are told the CAF is every bit as good today as then, they are fucken wrong). But not to a ship that is under manned, and has ammunition procurement problems.

Jesus, did I mention the morale problem too..... Going woke in the CAF..... Well I will just say its _________ morale.

You got a army not trained to kill, but to be more emotionally accepting of other peoples feelings (The kinder gentler army).... How the fuck do you kill the enemy then? Not when you are getting mixed signals all the time....No wonder troops are getting PTSD. Someone raised their voice and it scared me.... It stressed me.... How the fuck are these weaklings gonna to protect Canadians. I want mean, green killing machines.....

When I was a teenager there was a shirt with this printed on it:
"Join the Marines and see the world and meeting interesting People; and then kill them." Funny isn't it... Today well....

IMHO
No one in their right mind would ever suggest that Canada 'getting tough' with China means going to war with them.
 

vanperb

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Yes Canada is finally getting tough with China...
To bad Canada does not have the muscle to back it up.
Really I mean the CAF is under manned and has major equipment problems....
Wow. You went straight for the military "solution".
You realize to be even considered a low level military contender against China we'd have to be a nuclear power. And there is absolutely zero appetite for Canadians to go about the nuclear route, let alone the insanely ineffective modern military route. They have and will out spend and overpower Canada's military in every single way, even if we managed to pour all our efforts into a sudden military build up.
 
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carvesg

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Lmao ...Going against China militarily for any reason is one "way out of bound " premise .

First of we would never initiate it for any reason and China would NEVER initiate it as someone has to pay attention to the geopolitical game at play which includes the world power to the south of us .
Can anyone imagine the USA allowing China any action in North America ? A Chinese fleet wouldn't make it to a 1000 miles to the Pacific Northwest.

Let's be serious ! It doesn't matter how under equipped we are at this point . That scenario is impossible.


Economically that would be a different story but again we have such a trade deficit with them that they have more to loose than we do at the end of the day.
 
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masterpoonhunter

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Well just look at the source of that military 'idea'.
 
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rlock

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Lmao ...Going against China militarily for any reason is one "way out of bound " premise .

First of we would never initiate it for any reason and China would NEVER initiate it as someone has to pay attention to the geopolitical game at play which includes the world power to the south of us .
Can anyone imagine the USA allowing China any action in North America ? A Chinese fleet wouldn't make it to a 1000 miles to the Pacific Northwest.

Let's be serious ! It doesn't matter how under equipped we are at this point . That scenario is impossible.


Economically that would be a different story but again we have such a trade deficit with them that they have more to loose than we do at the end of the day.

While you are correct that China has more to worry about than little ol' Canada, they have been building up their military capabilities a great deal in the past decade or more. China used to prioritize economic development, and though they always had an enormous number of soldiers, they did not have the "power projection" capabilities of the USA, or Russia, or even the UK. That has changed - they are recently devoting a lot of resources and effort to higher tech warfare doctrines, a powerful blue water navy, and a generally more belligerent relationship with other nations. Xi Jinping is a very belligerent and rapacious leader, so relations with him will be bad because that's just how he is. However, even without him in charge, China has made a decisive turn towards being a superpower, and that means the one next door to us doesn't like it. The US wanted to dominate the world alone after the Cold War, but the world is now pushing back and of all the ones capable of matching them, China is it.

However, China's recent bad behaviour is also making enemies, and you can count Canada among them. Once we had wanted to partner with them in business and so on - both parties in government did try this idea - but now people are sick of China's "do what we tell you or else" attitude, so the business community lobbying for making deals with China is now being ignored. Basically, the bridges got burned, and not by Canada.

What that means for Canada is that now we have to boost up our counter-espionage at home, boost up our military presence in the Pacific (and Arctic - China has even been making claims up there, even though they have no history up there and no right to claim anything), and get ready to take on China diplomatically in places like Africa. I mean basically it is a new Cold War, and even if Russia is being the angry bear right now, it is the dragon that is growing, learning, and preparing for conflict.

Saying we can just rely on the US is a big mistake - they protect only their interests, not ours. Both Trump and Biden have made it clear that any deal we have with them can be discarded the moment they feel like swindling us to please their domestic audience.
If we needed their help with a Chinese military incursion, they might "help themselves" to Canada's territory instead, and that is just as bad as China doing it to us.

Superpowers are empires, and empires act this way. They measure things by what they can get away with, not what is right. Power for them means control by them; power for us means having the power to control ourselves.

Now if only our moronic political parties could speak honestly & plainly about this to the public, instead of constantly trying to use it as a wedge issue to fuck with each other politically. :cautious:
 
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