Why Men Need To Cheat

[PlayfulAlex]

What I'm hearing is that romance/sex wasn't ever really a part of the relationship. Early/young marriages are often a case of societal pressure, not the excitement of finding the 'perfect partner', sexually or otherwise.

Most older people that don't want to be single, ie. divorcees, are hell-bent on finding a better match the second (or even third) time around. They look back on their early decision-making, and try and do a better job (cover more bases) with their later decisions during the partner-search. Lots of people (male and female) don't want to die old and alone (single), so the search continues.

Why do you think that marriages often break up after the children are out on their own? One or the other partner (or both) says, "Phew, finally, now I can go after the partnership I wished I'd had in the first place, even though I love my children dearly"...

So although the title reads, Why Men Need to Cheat, that's probably more of an attention-grabbing headline. It sounds like the book (and this thread) is really more about sexual compatibility before and during marriage. Our culture places very little value on open and honest communication (what does get discussed on the subject is mostly propaganda, not reality)...from a very young age, we are taught to say more of what the other person wants to hear, so that we can get what we think we want. Authenticity, and the appreciation of it, is very rare in our society.

Consequently, people get married to people that they barely know...if you really break it down.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Now THAT'S interesting. Please explain how it would change the way they feel about their husbands, why it would result in more sex with their husbands, and most importantly, how differently the variety would be, for what reasons and for what results??

LOL That would require me to write the essay of all essays...not sure anyone (including myself right now) wants me to do that. Obviously I can't prove it and it's based in intuition more than facts. But even if my hunch sounds counter intuitive, I'd bet my theory, if ever possible to test, wouldn't be so far off from reality. But I doubt we'll ever know.


Some bits from "Sex at Dawn" (see my other post for info):

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o​

LOL

 

[jesuschrist]

LOL That would require me to write the essay of all essays...not sure anyone (including myself right now) wants me to do that. Obviously I can't prove it and it's based in intuition more than facts. But even if my hunch sounds counter intuitive, I'd bet my theory, if ever possible to test, wouldn't be so far off from reality. But I doubt we'll ever know.

Well the contributions to this whole discourse (which you started by the way) was for the most part quite pedestrian, unsurprising and not all that informative. Then you come along and make incendiary comments that would actually infuse it all with something remarkable; afer all, was not a key element of your argument about the assymetry against women with regard to sexual freedom? Would you not care to educate us men on the dynamics of female sexuality, when after all it has been alledged time and again that men only see women not as women but how we want to see them? We would have no choice but to continue our attitudes towards women, sluts to be lusted after and hated, angels to be exalted and ultimately unloved. Now you excuse yourself and weasel out. Come on, I expect better from the few with intellect here.

Besides, it is doubtful an essay is required to explain female motives and attitides about sexuality; its not rocket science. If you put in a little effort you could distill the main arguments into a few paragraphs. I for one would appreciate the contribution, and frankly would give us something to really talk about rather than reading post after post of pathetic admissions about people's marriages.

 

[PlayfulAlex]

Would you not care to educate us men on the dynamics of female sexuality, when after all it has been alledged time and again that men only see women not as women but how we want to see them... If you put in a little effort you could distill the main arguments into a few paragraphs. I for one would appreciate the contribution, and frankly would give us something to really talk about rather than reading post after post of pathetic admissions about people's marriages.

Hmmm, a lesson in how to insult about 46 people, all in one fell swoop. Well done. It must be nice to be you, oh exhalted one...

Meanwhile, I feel the need to mention this again, the Ladder Theory...ie. "something to really talk about"...

http://www.laddertheory.com

 

[luvtolick]

I to am done with relaitionships at this stage of my life. After being burned a couple times lol I called it quits. As of now I am a single father with custody of all my children and I would do anything for the kids. What I wouldn't do is bring another person into thier lives again only to be burned for money and greed. That is why I do what I do. No strings, have a great time with some compaionship, go home and move on with my life and meet some good people on the way. If I was in a relationship I don't think I could do this hobby as I have always been a man of my word. What goes around comes around is what I believe. Great read though Thanks

 

[Dgodus]

http://www.laddertheory.com

Oh yea I lol'd, thanks for that :thumb:

 

[InnocentBoy]

Men are the disposable sex after all.

 

[Dgodus]

Appreciated that. Thanks.

 

[sevenofnine]

my wife never really wanted sex not interested, wanted kids, so we had sex, but after that slowly stopped it was few and far between then nothing,
i went without for years, before i couldn't stand it any more and started to see escorts


if for some reason she needed variety other guys to get her sex life back or desire back,
i think i would fucking go through the roof. i mean she shut me down, if she could have sex with some other guy, and not even try to have or please the guy she was married to, i would just loose it.

even as it stands im confused, i mean im married for almost thirty years, we have had two kids, but sexually my wife does nothing at all or tried nothing at all. to make me happy keep me happy
but an escort i give a few bucks and were rolling around naked,
im sure escorts see guys they don't like or don't enjoy, regularly even, but they still see them

but my wife can't even try to please me sexually in some way i think its very selfish to not try to please your mate,
my wife anything she wants she eventually gets from me, i mean new house car trip, whatever she wants i accept it and eventually fiqure out a way to provide it for her,

i personally think its very selfish on her part not to give me the same back, or at least accept why i would see an escort.

that is why i pretty much am done with relationships. if i ever find myself single again. the last thing i will do is get married again

 

[myselftheother]

my wife never really wanted sex not interested, wanted kids, so we had sex, but after that slowly stopped it was few and far between then nothing,
i went without for years, before i couldn't stand it any more and started to see escorts


if for some reason she needed variety other guys to get her sex life back or desire back,
i think i would fucking go through the roof. i mean she shut me down, if she could have sex with some other guy, and not even try to have or please the guy she was married to, i would just loose it.

even as it stands im confused, i mean im married for almost thirty years, we have had two kids, but sexually my wife does nothing at all or tried nothing at all. to make me happy keep me happy
but an escort i give a few bucks and were rolling around naked,
im sure escorts see guys they don't like or don't enjoy, regularly even, but they still see them

but my wife can't even try to please me sexually in some way i think its very selfish to not try to please your mate,
my wife anything she wants she eventually gets from me, i mean new house car trip, whatever she wants i accept it and eventually fiqure out a way to provide it for her,

i personally think its very selfish on her part not to give me the same back, or at least accept why i would see an escort.

that is why i pretty much am done with relationships. if i ever find myself single again. the last thing i will do is get married again

No sex, no intimacy, no 'our time'? Dude, your wife of 30 years+ stopped loving you a long time ago. Time to cut your strings. Life is way too short to be living with your guilt and having to find an sp who you've been having a surrogate relationship that your wife hasn't provided you for years. Years, man. ....way too long.

I know you loved her, probably still do, love your kids and do whatever it takes to make sure all of everything is provided. Makes you a good man...a sucker, for sure, but a good man. From what I've gleaned from you in your postings you are not happy at all in your marriage and running to an sp for solace every once in a while ain't gonna solve your problems at home, with your homelife, your wife. Talk to her, grow a pair that will give you the courage to face the lack of love with your wife ( yeah you love her, but really..is it LOVE?) and the fact you really are done with even trying are issues you really ought to get help for....the both of you.

Then again, I could be wrong...but I doubt it.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Sex at dawn is a great read. Based on my observations, monogamy is a near impossible ideal, and does not seem to work well for either gender. Regarding wives that don't want sex, in more than a few cases what is going on is that they just don't want to have sex with their husbands.

 

[MissJasmine]

The title of this thread should really be "Why Men Need to Marry"
just saying...

 

[jesuschrist]

The Ladder Theory, Attractiveness Quotient, Disposable Man, etc all illustrate that guys should always do everything possible to avoid being a woman's "friend". The only way that a woman has sex with a "friend" is if it will help her take something he has and she wants before she tells him to get out of her life.

Attractiveness Quotient is based on the 10 point scale.

When we (male or female) meet somebody, we instantly give them a score based on appearance, personal hygiene and evident wealth.

That score gets adjusted according to our and our acquaintances interactions with that person.

Men will have sex with anybody above them in attractiveness quotient points and anyone that is one attractiveness quotient point below them.

Women will have sex only with people above them in attractiveness quotient points.

Having sex with a person above you in attractiveness quotient points - adds attractiveness quotient points to your score.

The Ladder Theory http://www.laddertheory.com/ says the same thing except it places men that a woman allows to hang around because he has something she wants on a separate ladder. The effect is still the same, he's a 1 and she's a 1 - she will never fuck him unless it's to get something from him. If he's a 2 and she's a 1 - she will fuck him until the additional attractiveness quotient point has "taken". When he's a 2 and she's a 2 - she won't fuck him unless it's to get something from him.

Just different ways of saying the same thing. Except the Ladder Theory has charts to illustrate how it works.

Note - with men, it's a straight 1 to 10 scale based mostly on appearance.

Note - with women, the men they are willing to fuck are a straight 1 to 10 scale - but - there is a second ladder for men that she won't fuck that have something she wants. Men that try to jump from the second ladder to the first ladder drop into the abyss.

I think when a man "befriends" a woman, he should pretty much immediately ask:

"So, am I on your friends ladder or your real ladder?"

I'll bet she will have trouble answering if you're on the friends ladder. This would be an effective tactic, because if you see her squirming or unable to answer, then you are on the friends ladder and she is there to extract horrible female friends crap out of you like, a) telling you all about her problems with other guys, b) telling you all about her shopping, c) telling you all about her lingerie, d) getting you to do her taxes/homework/household chores/handywork/carpet cleaning/grocery shopping, e) listening to her bitch about other girls

At that point you have to do 1 of 2 things:
#1) stop being her friend, answer calls but be brief and get off the phone as quickly as possible, never visit her again
#2) retain the friendship to climb up the friends ladder but only if she has female friends you are trying to get on the real ladder with

#2 is obvious, but a man should never partake in this unless you've done your research into her female friends. It's a better tactic to have pre-planned all this: find the girl you really want to have sex with but not talk to her, yet get on her friend's "friend" ladder and get a good rapport going. The target girl will begin to take interest because one thing girls do all the time is talk talk talk.

#1 is the only way to get on the real ladder if you're on the friend ladder. Showing independence and a no-bullshit attitude makes you more desirable to the girl. Hanging on and being a nice friend is going to lower your rating in her eyes, unless you're already high in her attraction towards you. I've seen guys on the friends ladder get frustrated and worse, the girl ends up disrespecting him as worthy of bedding her.

I think it takes a desperate guy to want to befriend a girl, unless the girl has status and is socially prestigious or has tremendous wealth, or is high up in her vocation. All other girls have nothing to offer guys as friends, it is they who have everything to gain.

 

[DavidMR]

Thanks to Alinburnaby and jesuschrist for their discussion of snakes and ladders, ... er, ... I mean ladders. It's very informative and reminds me of my college days when I was not a BMOC, just a student trying to get his degree and couldn't get laid for anything.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I think when a man "befriends" a woman, he should pretty much immediately ask:

"So, am I on your friends ladder or your real ladder?"

I'll bet she will have trouble answering if you're on the friends ladder. This would be an effective tactic, because if you see her squirming or unable to answer, then you are on the friends ladder and she is there to extract horrible female friends crap out of you like, a) telling you all about her problems with other guys, b) telling you all about her shopping, c) telling you all about her lingerie, d) getting you to do her taxes/homework/household chores/handywork/carpet cleaning/grocery shopping, e) listening to her bitch about other girls

At that point you have to do 1 of 2 things:
#1) stop being her friend, answer calls but be brief and get off the phone as quickly as possible, never visit her again
#2) retain the friendship to climb up the friends ladder but only if she has female friends you are trying to get on the real ladder with

#2 is obvious, but a man should never partake in this unless you've done your research into her female friends. It's a better tactic to have pre-planned all this: find the girl you really want to have sex with but not talk to her, yet get on her friend's "friend" ladder and get a good rapport going. The target girl will begin to take interest because one thing girls do all the time is talk talk talk.

#1 is the only way to get on the real ladder if you're on the friend ladder. Showing independence and a no-bullshit attitude makes you more desirable to the girl. Hanging on and being a nice friend is going to lower your rating in her eyes, unless you're already high in her attraction towards you. I've seen guys on the friends ladder get frustrated and worse, the girl ends up disrespecting him as worthy of bedding her.

I think it takes a desperate guy to want to befriend a girl, unless the girl has status and is socially prestigious or has tremendous wealth, or is high up in her vocation. All other girls have nothing to offer guys as friends, it is they who have everything to gain.

...or you know, a man could just befriend her for the purpose of..... OMG, friendship.

I'm very sorry but if men are pretending to be interested in befriending women but are really only doing it to get in their pants... then it's their problem if she puts them on the friends ladder. It's pretty straightforward, if you ask me.

Basically it is men being bitter about girls they perceive as being at the "top of the ladder" dismissing them for supposed "alpha males" and turning around and being dicks about the girls they've placed lower on the ladder. Well, duh! What goes around comes around. What a turn off.

Yah, some of it might make sense but really, IMO people should really be over that kind of thinking by the time their 20's are over (and I'm really being generous here - men should be passed that by their mid 20's!). I've had plenty of guy friends, most of whom I never slept with, even if in some cases one or both of us was attracted to the other, a few I did sleep with and it either ruined the friendship or didn't make any difference. And there have been a few who just couldn't deal with being on the friends ladder, got bitter and stopped pretending they were truly interested in friendship and all I can say is good riddance, grow up already because I don't need friends like you and chances are most other girls will feel the same.

Kind of in the same class as all that PUA bs. Nothing makes me want to vomit more than their ridiculous "methods". What kind of loser does this crap even work on? I can't see any remotely intelligent girl being impressed by that, unless the guys *is* hot and she's just interested in getting laid - in which case his PUA skills have nothing to do with it.

I don't know, I just get sooooooooooooooo turned off by that kind of thing. Is that the best game adult males can manage? Come on, surely any male over the age of 25 can do better than that. And if you can't, well maybe you do deserve to sit on the friends ladder....!

Just sayin' not trying to diss you here but that whole schtick was extremely unappealing. If you are younger than 25 then enjoy it but realize there comes a time when men need to outgrow and get passed that phase. Sorry to say but it's not charming or sexy.

 

[uncleg]

 

[DavidMR]

I've had plenty of guy friends, most of whom I never slept with, even if in some cases one or both of us was attracted to the other, a few I did sleep with and it either ruined the friendship or didn't make any difference. And there have been a few who just couldn't deal with being on the friends ladder, got bitter and stopped pretending they were truly interested in friendship and all I can say is good riddance, grow up already because I don't need friends like you and chances are most other girls will feel the same.

So, some friends got benefits and the friendship continued, and with others it didn't. I am curious as to which friends were selected for benefits and which weren't, and how things went later on with the friendship continues crowd. Did they ask for a repeat?


As for those friends who wanted equivalent benefits, were denied, and walked away, I wonder it the good riddance sentiment might be mutual?

 

[jesuschrist]

I like the sentiment this graphic communicates, thanks.

However, I do need to say nobody "makes" somebody feel something. I would hope that in a relationship that rewarding, it was just a natural symbiotic feeling that emerged and was shared between them.

 

[luvsdaty]

Friendship? It must feel really special when your hanging out & your guy friends are 'eye raping' you every time you bend over.. I can't remember which programme it was(cbc i think?) but they did a study on a university campus where they had a georgous girl approach guys on campus & ask them if they wanted sex. Can't remember but the yes answers where in the 90%
Then they did the same thing, got an old lady to ask these college guys if they wanted to have sex. She got turned down,i think if you tried this same experiment on guys from 19-99, you'd probably get the same results.
We're pigs, & that's not gonna change any time soon.

 

[jesuschrist]

...or you know, a man could just befriend her for the purpose of..... OMG, friendship.

I'm very sorry but if men are pretending to be interested in befriending women but are really only doing it to get in their pants... then it's their problem if she puts them on the friends ladder. It's pretty straightforward, if you ask me.

Basically it is men being bitter about girls they perceive as being at the "top of the ladder" dismissing them for supposed "alpha males" and turning around and being dicks about the girls they've placed lower on the ladder. Well, duh! What goes around comes around. What a turn off.

Yah, some of it might make sense but really, IMO people should really be over that kind of thinking by the time their 20's are over (and I'm really being generous here - men should be passed that by their mid 20's!). I've had plenty of guy friends, most of whom I never slept with, even if in some cases one or both of us was attracted to the other, a few I did sleep with and it either ruined the friendship or didn't make any difference. And there have been a few who just couldn't deal with being on the friends ladder, got bitter and stopped pretending they were truly interested in friendship and all I can say is good riddance, grow up already because I don't need friends like you and chances are most other girls will feel the same.

Kind of in the same class as all that PUA bs. Nothing makes me want to vomit more than their ridiculous "methods". What kind of loser does this crap even work on? I can't see any remotely intelligent girl being impressed by that, unless the guys *is* hot and she's just interested in getting laid - in which case his PUA skills have nothing to do with it.

I don't know, I just get sooooooooooooooo turned off by that kind of thing. Is that the best game adult males can manage? Come on, surely any male over the age of 25 can do better than that. And if you can't, well maybe you do deserve to sit on the friends ladder....!

Just sayin' not trying to diss you here but that whole schtick was extremely unappealing. If you are younger than 25 then enjoy it but realize there comes a time when men need to outgrow and get passed that phase. Sorry to say but it's not charming or sexy.

It is interesting how a lot of women have these two ladders, might place a man on the friends ladder, but can ignore every single hint or two-by-four to the head that states loudly and clearly that the man is primarily interested in sex. And if that were the case, then any sensible woman should know that friendship is not really possible. I have seen it where a man asks the girl out to see a movie, makes himself available at her disposal for doing chores, pays her way, etc., etc.. Does money grow on trees and friends lavishly just dump it on each other? Is one's time free to be used up doing errands for someone else? But all this is ignored, and I would suggest selfishly, because the woman has all this to gain while ignoring that he is being strung along, while pretending (to herself) that he is interested in friendship. Many women play this game and pretend not to. It's a lot more honest to know what you're getting into with a woman who has these ladders and working HER system.

For many men, friendship is centered about common interests and activities, which might be careers (from a male perspective), sports, politics, philosophy, cars, prostitutes, etc. How many women actually share any of these interests to the depth that would make friendship with her equivalent to the friendship with another man?

For myself, I find few women my intellectual equal. Not to say they are not equivalent in intelligence, they just choose to use their intelligence in non-intelligent activities and interests. Thus I find very few of them appealing as friends. In my whole life, I have had only 2 female friends who I respected as my peer or better.