USA Political Discussion Thread 2025

sexpanther69

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The world has to ask why not one Arab, Muslim, Middle East nation wil take in Palestinians, or allow them citizenship. Keeping them in constant poverty, and allowing Hamas to launch attacks on Israel seems to be their preference over Palestinians ever developing Gaza into something resembling a functioning state.
Why should they have to take anyone in... The Palestinians don't want to leave THEIR land ... Not their fault they have a country tryi g to wipe them out backed but the Nazi US

If Mexico were ever obliterated like Palestine was, would the US accept the Mexicans to resettle
 

carvesg

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The world has to ask why not one Arab, Muslim, Middle East nation wil take in Palestinians, or allow them citizenship. Keeping them in constant poverty, and allowing Hamas to launch attacks on Israel seems to be their preference over Palestinians ever developing Gaza into something resembling a functioning state.
Because they dont want and will not move . The Palestinians have a term for the palestinian exodus following the seizure of their territory in 48 which they call The Catastrophe and the shame that followed.

2 million people with 50000 hamas fighters (half of them dead ) but with a new portion radicalized by Israel discriminate bombing which have never been involved in any act of violence before ( ghosts for all intent and purposes to Mossad ) ... Which country can , could or would take that many people? Taken over by the US (double edge sword) ? According to international law the country taking over has to give those people citizenship. US territory means US citizenship under US Constitution which means that they can migrate to any US territory or the continental US. Is it what the average American is willing to deal with ? Does it sound like a plan ?

All Gaza annexion is a frivolous and childish discussion, on top of it the international community is against it and have been since 67. Give that annexion the approval and watch Russia going after more territories, China will go after Taiwan and the South China sea islands in less time it will take to rebuild Gaza.
 
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rlock

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How many times will people have to say ? Only one refinery can handle WCS in the east and it's Irving in New Brunswick.

Alberta would have been able to sell their pipeline project back in the 80s if they would have processed themselves their WCS to light crude , keep the by product to sell and ship what the rest to the refineries back east are equipped to process ( light crude) . It was discussed in the 80s to no avail....nope the mentality seems to be.... You get what i want to sell you and ship you ; which since has became ...we will bypass your refineries little people of Ontario and Quebec to send it to Irving in NB . That's the eastern view on that .

Same attitude with the trans mountain pipeline and its heavy WCS bitumen that bc refineries are not equipped to process and is environmentally risky in case of a spill on the coast from a tanker. The approval process could have been so much smoother if Alberta would process what people want and need but they prefer selling at a discount to subsidiaries or head office in the US.

No premier or PM in 30 something years has forced the oil sand companies to refine some or all their heavy crude for shipping and it is still not in the plans . Nobody will tell me that it was not or still not feasible
The problem with TMX is it was all done for export; nobody talked about expanding refining here, building a refinery to go with it. $45 billion taxpayer dollars spent (given some estimates, and none say less than 20 billion), and given the threats going on, if either the Libs or Cons are dumb enough to sell that pipeline now that it is owned by the Canadian taxpayers, they should be lynched. If anything its operation should be used for full public works funding of the more important pipeline: the one that sends Alberta oil back east around Ontario (and not through the US) to refineries in ON, QC, and NB.

That plus 2 refineries either built for or converted to the right kind of Canadian oil (one back east, and one in BC's Lower Mainland), and Canada will never need be threatened with a cutoff of US-made or US-transited fuel ever again. We will have all the power to cut them off partially or fully, any time we want; Canada can fuck Trump economically and laugh at his threats; if Canada and Mexico embargo the US of all energy, they would be the ones economically fucked.

Make the cross-Canada pipeline a public works project, with national security as the reason, and get going on it fast like it is for WW2. But mark my words, the first ones to get angry about such a plan will be the "canadian" oil industry executives, who have done more than anyone to make sure Canada was in no position to fully meet its own needs, while prioritizing supplying the US like it was a holy commandment. "Refineries are expensive" ? They are the wealthiest industry in Canada, and I'm sure since the 1970's when oilsands extraction began they had the means (the money) to actually invest in Canada's strategic fuel needs, but they never wanted to. Instead they closed Canadian refineries outside AB, and went all-in pressing for pipelines designed for exports, primarily to the US.

They could have set aside enough money for new refineries, or upgrading existing ones, but during each oil boom, their sudden windfall got poured into dividends for the high-rollers - not better productivity, not domestic refining capacity, and certainly not into investing in other forms of energy (as a hedge against the dire issue of carbon emissions). Then when the booms always end and they suddenly cry like they are orphans with a begging cup, and it is somehow Ottawa's fault. It's absurd, but there is a whole network of people who are dumb enough to support these grifters no matter how much of Canada's current wealth and future survival they manage to squander.

Clearly stated, no TLDR:
Canada's oil & gas resources should be only in Canadian hands. (Indeed, any strategic resources or industries.)
Canada's oil & gas resources should first of all be used to meet all of Canada's fuel needs, trading only the surplus to others.
Canada's oil & gas wealth should be able to be cut off from any country that wants to be our enemy, without it sinking our whole national economy.

Too many years of oil industry political bluster have stood in the way of Canada meeting these 3 strategic necessities.
 

rlock

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Because they dont want and will not move . The Palestinians have a term for the palestinian exodus following the seizure of their territory in 48 which they call The Catastrophe and the shame that followed.

2 million people with 50000 hamas fighters (half of them dead ) but with a new portion radicalized by Israel discriminate bombing which have never been involved in any act of violence before ( ghosts for all intent and purposes to Mossad ) ... Which country can , could or would take that many people? Taken over by the US (double edge sword) ? According to international law the country taking over has to give those people citizenship. US territory means US citizenship under US Constitution which means that they can migrate to any US territory or the continental US. Is it what the average American is willing to deal with ? Does it sound like a plan ?

All Gaza annexion is a frivolous and childish discussion, on top of it the international community is against it and have been since 67. Give that annexion the approval and watch Russia going after more territories, China will go after Taiwan and the South China sea islands in less time it will take to rebuild Gaza.

The whole idea is sickening. Like some foreign slumlord deciding it is time for the "renoviction" of an entire people.

Egypt can slam their fist down and say "then no more US or Israeli ships going through the Suez Canal, ever"; that country has been an ally of the west, yet twice in the span of a dozen years, the US has capriciously betrayed them.
Jordan too - the world scarcely knows how helpful they have been to western intelligence agencies and militaries, so they can bring all that to a rapid end if they want to.

As for Netanyahu and the Israelis, they have no intention of letting the Palestinian territories become anything except Even More Israel. The rest of their neighbours they will make sure to turn into failed states incapable of defending themselves, ever.
The Americans are once again acting as dumb muscle for them, protecting them diplomatically, doing their dirty work and taking all the risk of blowback upon themselves.


The world has to ask why not one Arab, Muslim, Middle East nation wil take in Palestinians, or allow them citizenship. Keeping them in constant poverty, and allowing Hamas to launch attacks on Israel seems to be their preference over Palestinians ever developing Gaza into something resembling a functioning state.

All those ultra-wealthy gulf oil states have basically said "let em die, we're all about money and that makes us pals with Washington and Tel Aviv, no matter our ethnicity or religions". If Palestinians had oil, the skeikhs might care more. Or maybe it would just be stolen from the poor sods, twice as hard & fast.



Why should they have to take anyone in... The Palestinians don't want to leave THEIR land ... Not their fault they have a country tryi g to wipe them out backed but the Nazi US

If Mexico were ever obliterated like Palestine was, would the US accept the Mexicans to resettle
Mexico basically lost much of its territory and the US expected exactly that, and apparently still does.
 
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PuntMeister

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The moderate islamic states don’t want Palestinian troublemakers making trouble in their countries. Letting refugees in would result in endless conflict, whining, and effectively importing somebody else’s never-ending war into your own backyard. Just wait until the first Hamas-hole missiles launch at Israel from within refugee camps in Egypt. Yup, it’s a muslim dirty inconvenience—we don’t want ‘em. Nobody does.

And for the bat-shit unbalanced extremists states, ya they have just been using Palestinians as a war proxy against Zionists and the West. Rile ‘em up against the jews, because their sufferage surely entitles thdm to terrorism. Send a few drones in support, sure, but airlift devastated palestinians back to Iran and welcome them as citizens? Not happening.

Time to make peace for real or face the coming golf resorts.
 
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GentlemanJack69

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Oh my gosh.... This is the reason the housing market is so expensive these days. The flipping of houses, an up ward climb of inflation... Its not the average middle class person who is making this spiral by upgrading, its the greedy bastards who flip and flip and flip houses and real estate to make their money. Unfortuneately this problem started in the 1980s.

Seriously though, most people are like that (hard working), but it takes 2 people working in a family to afford a house, even in the 1990s. Speculation of house prices, market materials and labour an endless spiral for families.

You might be doing well, but about 50%-60% of all Canadian are not. The people doing well as a family in the range of 120,000.00 and up. Every body else is struggling, especially if they have kids, school, secondary school or medical issues.

If you are playing by the rules. The more money you make, the more taxes you pay and that can make a big divot on what you can afford. So people are working under the table, or criminal lines of work.

People having mortgages pay 2-3 times the price of the original mortgage before they pay off their mortgage. So banks are part of the problem.

Most people have investments. Mutual funds. Most mutual funds have a 2% management fee every year. Over 5 years that is 10% of your money gone.....Most people won't realize this as they are putting it away by the month, so the money they put in pushes the fund up. Those mutual funds will start to crash as people pull the money out. In the next 5 -15 years those funds will be in serious trouble because the retirees are withdrawing....

In society you need the workers to keep it all together. Fireman, police, hospitals, maintenance workers. Not everybody can go chase after those big paying jobs. While the people who gouge the rest of the population of money (through scams or legitimate means), are only increasing the chaos of that system....
Flipping houses isn't a significant factor in the housing market. The main factor is the demand for housing. That demand is driven by many factors including offshore investors, Rental leveraging, immigration, etc. It's further exacerbated by increasing costs associated with material costs, insurance costs, permitting costs, etc.
The more money you make, the more you should be working with a financial planner to reduce the impact of taxation on your income.

Financial Institutions and mortgages aren't the problem. You need to consider home ownership as a cost of housing. That cost is apparent whether you own or rent. If you take the difference between ownership and renting factoring in all the costs, insurance, property taxes, heat etc.. and you offset that cost by comparing it to the equity you build up in the home, you can determine which path is better for you. Like I said before, everyone's situation is different.

Most people don't have investments. Most people don't have a very strong saving mentality. Realistically speaking you should be putting aside at least 10% of your gross income annually (whether into a pension, investment, property, business or other asset) to direct towards your personal goals, whether that's retirement, home ownership, kids education, etc. Yes mutual funds have built in costs but you'd have to be investing in very poorly managed funds if the cost of the fund management results in an overall negative return that depletes your investment over the long term. If you don't have the risk tolerance or time frame to invest in mutual funds you should look for other alternatives, but the investment vehicle (mutual funds in this scenario) is less important than the type of investment you are putting your money into. Everyone's situation is different, there isn't any magical best way to do things, the reality is that the better you understand your own financial situation and define your goals, the easier it is to direct your money to achieve those goals.

Sorry for preaching.
 

oldshark

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Flipping houses isn't a significant factor in the housing market. The main factor is the demand for housing. That demand is driven by many factors including offshore investors, Rental leveraging, immigration, etc. It's further exacerbated by increasing costs associated with material costs, insurance costs, permitting costs, etc.
The more money you make, the more you should be working with a financial planner to reduce the impact of taxation on your income.

Financial Institutions and mortgages aren't the problem. You need to consider home ownership as a cost of housing. That cost is apparent whether you own or rent. If you take the difference between ownership and renting factoring in all the costs, insurance, property taxes, heat etc.. and you offset that cost by comparing it to the equity you build up in the home, you can determine which path is better for you. Like I said before, everyone's situation is different.

Most people don't have investments. Most people don't have a very strong saving mentality. Realistically speaking you should be putting aside at least 10% of your gross income annually (whether into a pension, investment, property, business or other asset) to direct towards your personal goals, whether that's retirement, home ownership, kids education, etc. Yes mutual funds have built in costs but you'd have to be investing in very poorly managed funds if the cost of the fund management results in an overall negative return that depletes your investment over the long term. If you don't have the risk tolerance or time frame to invest in mutual funds you should look for other alternatives, but the investment vehicle (mutual funds in this scenario) is less important than the type of investment you are putting your money into. Everyone's situation is different, there isn't any magical best way to do things, the reality is that the better you understand your own financial situation and define your goals, the easier it is to direct your money to achieve those goals.

Sorry for preaching.
Although I would agree with you comments, I also see that things are stacked against the youth. We have an entire business culture devoted to extracting the maximum money out of people and the young are most vulnerable. Business uses algorithms, unfair regulations, and every other trick in the book. For the young to get ahead, we have to help even the playing field so everyone gets opportunities rather than just shareholders (says he who has the majority of his money in stocks :sneaky:).
 
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LLLurkJ2

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Although I would agree with you comments, I also see that things are stacked against the youth. We have an entire business culture devoted to extracting the maximum money out of people and the young are most vulnerable. Business uses algorithms, unfair regulations, and every other trick in the book. For the young to get ahead, we have to help even the playing field so everyone gets opportunities rather than just shareholders (says he who has the majority of his money in stocks :sneaky:).
This. Wages have regressed relative to inflation, so your parents situation is not the same as yours and it will not be same for your kids.

And that inflation is not some natural progression either; its boards deciding that they need to make X%+ more than last year without any investmemts into efficiency. The money is being sucked out of the host to feed the parasites.
 
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oldshark

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This. Wages have regressed relative to inflation, so your parents situation is not the same as yours and it will not be same for your kids.

And that inflation is not some natural progression either; its boards deciding that they need to make X%+ more than last year without any investments into efficiency. The money is being sucked out of the host to feed the parasites.
I would agree that boards and the C-office have unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved without destroying the business. I once worked for a company where the CEO stipulated 15% growth compounded for the next 10 years - it was insane and there was no basis for this goal and no way to achieve it.

The problem is that we have spent the last 40 to 50 years warping the economy to the benefit of the investing class. Even where you see high relative GDP (e.g. the US compared to Canada), the increase of wealth has gone mostly to the top 1%. Judging a country solely by the GDP number is insane. GDP is a fake measure of how successful the particular society is.
 
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uncleg

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The moderate islamic states don’t want Palestinian troublemakers making trouble in their countries. Letting refugees in would result in endless conflict, whining, and effectively importing somebody else’s never-ending war into your own backyard. Just wait until the first Hamas-hole missiles launch at Israel from within refugee camps in Egypt. Yup, it’s a muslim dirty inconvenience—we don’t want ‘em. Nobody does.

And for the bat-shit unbalanced extremists states, ya they have just been using Palestinians as a war proxy against Zionists and the West. Rile ‘em up against the jews, because their sufferage surely entitles thdm to terrorism. Send a few drones in support, sure, but airlift devastated palestinians back to Iran and welcome them as citizens? Not happening.

Time to make peace for real or face the coming golf resorts.
Remember Black September.
 

rlock

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Why should they have to take anyone in... The Palestinians don't want to leave THEIR land ... Not their fault they have a country tryi g to wipe them out backed but the Nazi US

If Mexico were ever obliterated like Palestine was, would the US accept the Mexicans to resettle
Indeed, why should the Palestinians have to go? The land-stealers have already pounded on them for generations, and they do not want to go. The world needs to draw a line on that and not be accomplices to their forced liquidation.

(Besides, the US is clearly not accepting Mexicans resettling in what was once Mexico, the "southwest US".)

The Arab nations have populations of their own to worry about, and unless they are oil rich, often have hard times.
Only those wealthy gulf oil states are awash in bling, and the people they bring in as menial labourers are basically slaves. They learned long ago that if you treat other Arabs that way, you catch hell for it, so now they use Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Africans, etc. instead.

The fact that they never help the Palestinians (at least not since the early 80's) at all does not stop those oil states from sending billions to fund jihadi proxy armies like Al Qaida and ISIS that attack the west (attacks which go on no matter how much armaments we sell their masters). Mainly, it is for show when it fucks with us, and the real strategic policy is to use it on other muslim nations (Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq). So "moderate" they ain't.

The actual moderate / secular / trying to be neutral ones try to defend themselves for their own reasons, and part of that is not allowing the "Abraham Accords" countries to use them as some sort of "regime change renoviction" dumping ground for Palestinians who should be safe in their own homes, not forced out at gunpoint. That is the real reason why Egypt and Jordan are pissed off and closing their gates.

What they should really do is close off the Suez Canal to US & Israeli ships and stop all the intelligence cooperation they give which is essential to keeping the jihad-bros off the west's back. Do that and Trump's hard-on for Gaza beachfront property will shrink like a salted slug.
 
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80watts

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Flipping houses isn't a significant factor in the housing market. The main factor is the demand for housing. That demand is driven by many factors including offshore investors, Rental leveraging, immigration, etc. It's further exacerbated by increasing costs associated with material costs, insurance costs, permitting costs, etc.
The more money you make, the more you should be working with a financial planner to reduce the impact of taxation on your income.

Financial Institutions and mortgages aren't the problem. You need to consider home ownership as a cost of housing. That cost is apparent whether you own or rent. If you take the difference between ownership and renting factoring in all the costs, insurance, property taxes, heat etc.. and you offset that cost by comparing it to the equity you build up in the home, you can determine which path is better for you. Like I said before, everyone's situation is different.

Most people don't have investments. Most people don't have a very strong saving mentality. Realistically speaking you should be putting aside at least 10% of your gross income annually (whether into a pension, investment, property, business or other asset) to direct towards your personal goals, whether that's retirement, home ownership, kids education, etc. Yes mutual funds have built in costs but you'd have to be investing in very poorly managed funds if the cost of the fund management results in an overall negative return that depletes your investment over the long term. If you don't have the risk tolerance or time frame to invest in mutual funds you should look for other alternatives, but the investment vehicle (mutual funds in this scenario) is less important than the type of investment you are putting your money into. Everyone's situation is different, there isn't any magical best way to do things, the reality is that the better you understand your own financial situation and define your goals, the easier it is to direct your money to achieve those goals.

Sorry for preaching.
Flipping houses is a factor. But not anymore.
Yes the other factors you mention are factors, but not as much as the flipping houses, when you have 200-300 people flipping houses in an area. Look at this as when the great box stores started Rona, home depot etc. The Fed gov stopped the free capital gain limiting it to 2?? houses; now if you own the home less than 365 day your capital gains has to show up as income. All this to slow down the flipping of houses.

The major amount of immigration has happened since the 1990s when immigration started to be over 200,000 a year. Since 2018 its been over 300,000 per year. Did the demand come from the immigrants, not entirely so. A family of four eventually turns into 3-4 households, depending if there is a divorce. Now this is over a 20 year period.

Banks are a problem to your wealth, as they charge compound interest on mortgages. You pay 2-3 times the amount of your original mortgage. Money that you could use to increase your wealth. Pretty much its designed to keep the poor, very poor and the rich and bankers richer.
Mutual fund manager fees are usually 2%. In five years that takes away 10% of the fund. In the longterm of 40 years that could be 80% you could of earned on your invested money. That 2% adds up and takes alot away...The hook is the 10% return over all the years you invested..... The fund has to earn over 12% a year for you to achieve the compound interest of 10% for the longterm....

Its still cheaper to rent these days. In 2000 I was paying 600.00 for a 1 bedroom apartment. Now a 1 bedroom cost 1500.00. No property tax, just content insurance. Hydro.
Still that is cheaper than a house, where the mortgage is about 2000-2500 an month, Condo policy, property tax, house insurance and content insurance, water, sewer (water and sewer for renters usually is included in rent), and then hydro.

With a house you can save money but its wealth is tied up in the home. The thing is now people who own condos and rent them out are passing on all the prop tax, insurance and water, sewer and condo fees onto the renter, which is why I think the rent is so high today.

I also think that anyone that is making higher than min wage are saving.

Also there are too many rules for our money, all the rules need to be made simpler. A straight tax of 25%, no deductions for income tax. If you can't explain capital gains tax in under 2 pages, the system needs to be simplified.
 

Cock Throppled

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Indeed, why should the Palestinians have to go? The land-stealers have already pounded on them for generations, and they do not want to go. The world needs to draw a line on that and not be accomplices to their forced liquidation.
Yeah, those awful land stealers, who are happy to peacefully occupy their land, and only gained territory after beating the crap out of those that attacked them. Remember - Israel was attacked by its neighbours the day after it was created. Every attack since has resulted in Palestinians losing more territory, but they never seem to learn, so Gaza has now been levelled.

As for... (Besides, the US is clearly not accepting Mexicans resettling in what was once Mexico, the "southwest US".) Yes, it's horrible that you can visit the south western US and not find any people of Hispanic origin. It's almost like ethnic cleansing. Not a Mexican in sight.
 

johnywalker87

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. Remember - Israel was attacked by its neighbours the day after it was created.
Wrong. Israel started displacing palestinians before arab armies attacked, they took the opportunity of british troops withdrawing to start conquering palestinian towns and expelling their population to create a jewish majority state( the jewish population presented less than a third at that time, most of them recent immigrants from Europe ) . The attack of arab armies was actually a reaction against Israel displacing those palestinians to their territories
 
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carvesg

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Wrong. Israel started displacing palestinians before arab armies attacked, they took the opportunity of british troops withdrawing to start conquering palestinian towns and expelling their population to create a jewish majority state( the jewish population presented less than a third at that time, most of them recent immigrants from Europe ) . The attack of arab armies was actually a reaction against Israel displacing those palestinians to their territories
Exactly
Almost nobody knows about the raids the Zionists did on Palestinian villages from their kibbutzs . Some of those attacks were plain massacre of entire villages including women and children.

The British were withdrawing in 48 and the Israeli settlers went for the land grab in a very brutal way at times . Britain by guilt of not being as helpful as they could have been to the Jewish community during WW2 allowed the Jewish settlers to act brutally.

The European countries and the US thought they were righting a wrong by allowing another wrong when the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Sho'ah .

Nobody is going anywhere now because of international laws and scrutiny even when we allow the killing with a ratio of 20 to 1 or 30 to 1 to occur this time .

2 state solution was the only alternative and still is but right now extremism on both sides has free range . The jews, the Romans, the Muslims and the Christians made that strip of land their battle ground for 2 millenniums which some used as an excuse to commit atrocities even to this day.
 

Cock Throppled

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Palestinians of course don't want to leave their paradise. Hamas has created this, so instead of living like the people in Dubai, they live like rats while Hamas stopped elections, built tunnels, lobbed missiles at Israel and killed any of their own people for political means or who showed resistance. Hezbollah destroyed Lebanon the same way. But hey, the process seems to be working well for Palestinians, so keep promoting the two state solution they have consistently rejected, and attack Israel, the only democratic state in the Middle East.
2025-02-06T120758Z_1060884222_RC2YOCAJZKAG_RTRMADP_3_ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS-GAZA-CEASEFIRE-WEATH...jpeg
 
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LLLurkJ2

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Exactly
Almost nobody knows about the raids the Zionists did on Palestinian villages from their kibbutzs . Some of those attacks were plain massacre of entire villages including women and children.

The British were withdrawing in 48 and the Israeli settlers went for the land grab in a very brutal way at times . Britain by guilt of not being as helpful as they could have been to the Jewish community during WW2 allowed the Jewish settlers to act brutally.

The European countries and the US thought they were righting a wrong by allowing another wrong when the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Sho'ah .

Nobody is going anywhere now because of international laws and scrutiny even when we allow the killing with a ratio of 20 to 1 or 30 to 1 to occur this time .

2 state solution was the only alternative and still is but right now extremism on both sides has free range . The jews, the Romans, the Muslims and the Christians made that strip of land their battle ground for 2 millenniums which some used as an excuse to commit atrocities even to this day.
I agree that no one is going anywhere now, this plan of Trumps is disgusting, that the majority of Palestinians were displaced in the Nakba, that the Irgun acted as terrorists, that the British and the UN assauged their guilt by giving away other peoples land, and the killings have to stop.

However the narrative is one sided and that bothers me. For further colour:
The Al- asqua mosque is the third most most holy site in islam but is built ontop of the most holy site in judaism.
There never was a 'Palastine' proper - it was always held by invading empires
There were muslim agitators who spread falshoods in order to drum up anti-Jewish violence during the British occupation period.
The sourrounding Islamic states expelled their indiginous Jewish populations during the wars; it was not some act of Palistinian support but had everything to do with Islamic jursiprudence.
The Palestinian bloodlines are a mix of Greek, Phonecian/Cannanite, Roman, Cartheginian and other sea trader states of antiquity.
The Jews were expelled by Arab empires after the Romans.

That all said...the killing and dispossion has to stop. Its been eyes for eyes for too long , and they're all long blind.
 
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carvesg

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I agree that no one is going anywhere now, this plan of Trumps is disgusting, that the majority of Palestinians were displaced in the Nakba, that the Irgun acted as terrorists, that the British and the UN assauged their guilt by giving away other peoples land, and the killings have to stop.

However the narrative is one sided and that bothers me. For further colour:
The Al- asqua mosque is the third most most holy site in islam but is built ontop of the most holy site in judaism.
There never was a 'Palastine' proper - it was always held by invading empires
There were muslim agitators who spread falshoods in order to drum up anti-Jewish violence during the British occupation period.
The sourrounding Islamic states expelled their indiginous Jewish populations during the wars; it was not some act of Palistinian support but had everything to do with Islamic jursiprudence.
The Palestinian bloodlines are a mix of Greek, Phonecian/Cannanite, Roman, Cartheginian and other sea trader states of antiquity.
The Jews were expelled by Arab empires after the Romans.

That all said...the killing and dispossion has to stop. Its been eyes for eyes for too long , and they're all long blind.
Two state solution if we resume.

The interpretation of historical facts can be debated for another millennium but people living in the present have to be respected as no wrong from the past can be used to protect deflect people committing atrocities in present day .

I'll agree that the control of the territory over the millenniums changed hands multiple times but the people living and owning the land rarely changed hands. Some were more nomadic than others because of climate and weather adaptation and some occupied the land .... Islamic religion was adopted by the people living in the area after the caliphate conquest but i highly doubt that people were entirely displaced and replaced by tribes from the Saudi peninsula.
 

LLLurkJ2

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Two state solution if we resume.

The interpretation of historical facts can be debated for another millennium but people living in the present have to be respected as no wrong from the past can be used to protect deflect people committing atrocities in present day .

I'll agree that the control of the territory over the millenniums changed hands multiple times but the people living and owning the land rarely changed hands. Some were more nomadic than others because of climate and weather adaptation and some occupied the land .... Islamic religion was adopted by the people living in the area after the caliphate conquest but i highly doubt that people were entirely displaced and replaced by tribes from the Saudi peninsula.
For sure. The only thing I like more about the Jews than the other Abrahamic religions is they dont proselytize.
 
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carvesg

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Feb 2, 2010
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Palestinians of course don't want to leave their paradise. Hamas has created this, so instead of living like the people in Dubai, they live like rats while Hamas stopped elections, built tunnels, lobbed missiles at Israel and killed any of their own people for political means or who showed resistance. Hezbollah destroyed Lebanon the same way. But hey, the process seems to be working well for Palestinians, so keep promoting the two state solution they have consistently rejected, and attack Israel, the only democratic state in the Middle East.
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What is your solution if not 2 states ? Exterminate 2 million people?

Is destroying a city of 2 million people and killing 45 000 a justification for the death of 1200 ? Both can't be justified...just like the treatment they inflict on each other and especially at a ratio 30 to 1 . Romans and Attila would do such things in ancient times

Nobody is going anywhere at this point as everybody is overly radicalized . People will have to start compromising at one point like people in Ireland did over 2 decades ago ...which was supposedly impossible at the time
 
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