To Pimp Or Not To Pimp

superhappyfun

New member
Jul 5, 2013
64
0
0
I've been patient while this thread comes to life. My biggest concerns here are your naiveté and candour about pimping. You seem to think that pimping is just another friendly term for Business Manager. Are you kidding me or something? Pimps aren't exactly welcome team members, do you not know this?


Maybe you think we just have a list we're keeping hidden from public view:
Qualities I Look For in a Pimp

Maybe you really think girls go around interviewing potential pimps to see if they'll provide the services they're expecting...

If she used those exact words, 'Hey Darlin, I've been looking for a pimp, would you like the job? I'll happily pay you 30%?" I'd be shocked.

While there may be pimping arrangements in this city, they are becoming less and less commonplace, unless you do include the managers in massage parlours, who have often had to defend against accusations of pimping.

There may also be boyfriend arrangements (although this community tends to believe that everyone is fully independent), where he hovers around and does 'security' but I doubt she goes to bed at night saying, "I love you, pimp daddy!"

And what exactly is it that you could do for her that she can't do for herself? Will you create her website (that's 'my web guy' not 'my pimp'), post her ads (that's 'my advertising guy' not 'my pimp')? Or will you be like one of those Vegas hawkers, standing outside the nightclub, passing out her postcards and business cards (that's 'my sales guy' not 'my pimp')?

Or how exactly had you planned on procuring clients for her that an ad on Backpage, Perb or ERS List couldn't do better? Maybe you'll take her calls for her and book her appointments for her (that'd be 'my phone guy' not 'my pimp'), guys really love it when they call a lady's number and a guy answers the phone!



As I said, I've taken my time in responding, waiting to hear how the community reacts but we're now onto 3 pages, so it was time for me to say my piece.
Thanks for your input Alex. Admittedly, I did display some naiveté on the subject of pimping in my initial post, but thanks to everyone's responses I am learning a lot about how people perceive it, at least in this community.

As for how the topic came up, she was complaining to me about the type of clients she was attracting (essentially that many of them were annoying time wasters) and I was offering her ideas on how to reach a better class of clientele. (The key to this I believe lies not just in the advertising medium but in the message, in the image that an escort presents of herself. Presenting this ideal image is not as straightforward as one might think and although I believe that many escorts are quite skilled at presenting an excellent image on their own, not everyone is naturally inclined towards self-promotion. Some find the prospect stressful and prefer that someone else deal with the marketing communications.) In the course of our discussion she said something like "you should just become my pimp and get me some good clients... I will pay you like a 30% commission".

Now as for the specifics of how I would get these clients, that is something I will need to study further. Honestly I am not sure that I am the right person for the job given my lack of specific experience. If I were to do this I would want to be the best agent possible and provide to her a steady stream of clean, respectful, well-paying clients. That is why I asked about qualities - in the hopes that some ladies might share experiences about agents who have helped them enhance their business in ways that would be difficult to achieve on their own.
 

superhappyfun

New member
Jul 5, 2013
64
0
0
From my observations I'd have to agree: SPs (or mamasans) often have a crying need for help—much along the lines Vannessa's list so eloquently suggests.

I've sometimes thought I'd personally find the role of faciliating an SP's or micro's business very congenial. I sure believe in the importance of their work.

And yet—if you're a paid employee or "agent", you'd easily feel controlled, pushed around or even demeaned by a predictably stressed-out and probably moody boss. I couldn't stand that for very long.

If you're an overbearing son-of-a-bitch pimp or handler who does the controlling, then of course the SP(s) will easily feel micro-managed, pushed around, exploited...you name it.

Either way, the power dynamics between SPs and "agents" aren't likely to be easy to navigate—especially if a further complication is man-woman emotions like desire or affection.

I sure wish brother superhappyfun good luck. He sounds not only superhappy, but supersmart as well.
Thanks for the compliment tantalizeme. I agree that power dynamics is an issue that must be carefully considered in these sort of arrangements. I have never been the overbearing type, and I think that my ego is strong enough to handle being bossed around by a woman. I respect her and understand that what she chooses to do, or not, in her profession is entirely her own decision. I think the respect runs both ways; we view each other as equals and our interactions so far have been very collaborative. I hope this mutual respect would continue in a professional relationship, but I have not yet experienced all of the pressures and opportunities for disagreement that might arise. It is definitely something that I will have to meditate on further before making a decision either way.
 

Fullhouse

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2007
1,196
109
63
Vancouver - Richmond
I sure wish brother superhappyfun good luck. He sounds not only superhappy, but supersmart as well.


Yes, tantalizeme, as usual, you're right on the money.

I certainly agree that superhappyfun is very supersmart as well.

You certainly have to be a mental giant to come up with a literary Pulitzer prize title like: "To pimp or not to pimp"

No village idiot could ever dream up such a astute caption in a million years.........................Yah, right !!!!

To me a pimp is a pimp is a pimp, no matter how one wants to disguise it, gloss it over or pour a gallon of Eau de Cartier Men's Cologne on it to kill the stench.

Why are we defending the thoughts of someone possibly taking large chunks of a ladies earnings for 1 percent of her work load.?? Answer phone calls and make arrangement with people that the 'pimp' will never have to meet, never mind having to suck an uncovered c*ck with desires to cum in your mouth, or spread your legs for a guy with a hairy beer gut bigger than the barrel the beer came in. Paaaleease, what's wrong with this picture ???

I am sure most of the ladies on here cringe when they hear the word pimp, as it relates to: "Get your ass out there, sell your pussy and bring me ALL the money. Some may have had, or possibly have one now, ..But I'm pretty sure, each and every one of them much prefer the independent route, where money earned, means money kept.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,136
44
48
Montréal
There are time wasters and there will always be time wasters no matter how well you market yourself.
The key is to learn to spot them early as much as possible, to learn some of the signs.







pimps
In the media and public discourse, the word pimp brings to mind very gendered, racialized and classed images. It is often used to refer to an exploitative male, most often racialized – and in particular black – and involved in street life. In anti-sex work feminist literature and government responses in Bedford v. Canada, the word pimp is consistently used to categorize and limit people with a diversity of personal and professional relationships. The term “pimp” does not recognize the range of third party roles, the services they provide nor the relationships they have with sex workers.
*see third parties


Third parties are anyone involved in the sex work transaction who are neither the worker nor the client. The term third party is broad in that it includes the people sex workers work for (e.g., agency owners), with (e.g.agents, bookers) and hire (e.g., drivers) as well as individuals such as receptionists and security persons. All third parties are criminalized in canada by procuring laws, often referred to as “pimping laws”. These laws criminalize third parties – in other words, a person who has a work-related relationship with a sex worker. most sex workers have a working relationship with a third party – whether its for advertising, driving, booking and maintaining clients or providing security. sex workers can be considered third parties when they work collectively with other sex workers or set up work for another worker.

http://www.chezstella.org/docs/StellaInfoSheetLanguageMatters.pdf





If we’re going to talk about the men who aren’t pimps, it’s probably a good idea to start by defining what a pimp is in the first place. Once all emotion and exaggeration is stripped away, a pimp is essentially a manager (and indeed some girls even call their pimps that). He may book calls or provide housing for the girl, advertise for her, protect her, and arrange for bail if she is arrested; in return for these services she pays him a percentage of her earnings. As in any business, there are good managers and bad ones, and a bad pimp can be very bad indeed; the fees he demands could be wildly out of proportion to the services he provides and he might use coercion, intimidation, violence or even more extreme means to have his way. But the same thing could be said of husbands or boyfriends; what makes a pimp different?

Now, at this point I must disclose that I am very prejudiced against pimps; the idea of an adult man being supported by a woman grates on my nerves like nails on a chalkboard. However, I am trying to view this subject dispassionately, and as I said in my July 14th column my dislike for something is insufficient grounds for banning it. In a way, I’m almost as much of an outsider to the reality of pimps as you are; I have never had a pimp, and only rarely encountered girls who did because they’re quite rare in the world of escorts. In all fairness, I don’t know for a fact that even those were pimps; it may merely have been my perception. And though it galls me to have to say this, is a non-abusive pimp really anything different from a low-class, low-rent, unprofessional escort service? I’ve run into service owners who were only barely above the level of pimps; one in New Orleans whom I will discuss at length later was referred to by escorts who had left her service as “Pimp Mama” because of her lack of concern for her girls and her frequent attempts to control them by threats and histrionics. Despite my dislike, is it right to oppose pimps merely on principle, even if they treat their girls well and actually give them their money’s worth as good escort service owners do? In good conscience I must say no. The government must judge criminality on the behavior of an individual, not merely his status, and the right of individual choice MUST be respected in a free society, even if the majority don’t like that choice.

The stereotypical pimp is male, but in most times and places prostitution was a female business controlled by females; until recently streetwalkers always ran their own shows, and most brothels were owned and managed by women. The only places in which this was not true were those in which the state controlled the brothels, and even in those most were still run by women and the only men involved were the government bureaucrats sent to collect the state’s cut. Considering that these governments gave whores nothing but the promise that they would not be beaten, raped and arrested, they could be considered the first pimps. This system of “toleration” became widespread (most notably in France) in the early 19th century; though prostitution was not technically illegal, the police were given wide powers to “control” prostitutes and generally did so by what later generations called a “protection racket”, squeezing whores of every level for money and beating, raping and/or imprisoning those who refused to pay up. I find it terribly ironic that modern police tend to be so sanctimonious about pimps when they in fact were the first men to use violence to control and exploit whores, and even today tend to be a much greater danger to those at every level of the profession.

Pimps as we now know them did not appear until just before the turn of the 20th century, when the widespread “purity movement” (an outgrowth of early feminism which was also responsible for such brilliant ideas as Prohibition and attempts to prevent little boys from masturbating) pressured legislatures throughout the West (especially in the US) to ban prostitution outright rather than merely seeking to “control” it. Since under these new laws women could in many cities be arrested on suspicion of prostitution for simply walking in the street unescorted, streetwalkers began to employ men either to escort them so as to throw the police off, or to keep a lookout at the ends of streets so the whores could rush inside when the cops showed up. And when a whore was busted despite precautions, a male contact who held some of her money could arrange bail. In other words, the first true pimps appeared as a direct result of the criminalization of prostitution, which puts modern “anti-pimping laws” on shaky moral ground indeed. Sadly, this is not the only time in which the government’s excuse for some tyrannical law is the suppression of a problem which would not exist but for other tyrannical laws. If prostitution were not illegal there would be no need for pimps, and the streetwalkers who keep pimps only do so because they fear the cops more.

Even among streetwalkers, though, the stereotyped abusive pimp is fairly rare. American studies show that fewer than half of all streetwalkers have pimps, and of those that do the majority of them control the pimps rather than the other way around. The English Collective of Prostitutes estimates that fewer than 10% of English streetwalkers are encumbered by a “heavy ponce” (abusive pimp) and French estimates are lower still, about 5% of streetwalkers. Using the English estimate as a median between the higher American and lower French figures, and applying it to our standard 15% estimate of the percentage of all whores who are streetwalkers, we arrive at a figure of roughly 1.5% of all Western prostitutes who are controlled by pimps. This is a far cry from the “vast majority” claimed by the anti-whore propagandists who infest government and the feminist movement, and similar to most estimates of the number of women with abusive husbands or boyfriends.

Given these figures it seems likely that there are more pimp wannabes in this country than actual pimps. So, who are all of these men that the authorities and neofeminists claim are pimps? Many of them are simply boyfriends or husbands of whores; my own husband could have been accused of being a pimp from 2004-2006, a period when my income exceeded his by a narrow margin. Some are just male friends or roommates, including gay prostitutes. Others are men employed by escorts or call girls as drivers; some girls prefer not to worry about parking, and it’s nice to know there’s a big burly man nearby who knows exactly which hotel room one is in should a problem arise. Still others are dependent family members, such as minor sons or invalid fathers or brothers. The assumption that any man who keeps company with a whore and isn’t a customer must be a pimp has its roots in the old Madonna/whore duality again, specifically the virulent 19th-century “whore as monster” variety, because it pretends that whores are abnormal and therefore incapable of having the same sort of romantic, familial or economic relationships as any other woman.

As I said in the first paragraph, though, most people never let the facts get in the way of their preconceptions, especially when there’s political coin to be made. So in many countries (such as Canada and the UK) where public opinion and/or feminist pressure has caused laws criminalizing prostitution itself to be repealed, there are still plenty of laws which criminalize nearly everything a prostitute might do either to perform her trade or even just to live, and some of the most pernicious of these are the “living off of the avails” laws. These laws, supposedly intended to control our old bogeyman the pimp, criminalize any person who is supported even in part by a whore. So though prostitutes themselves are no longer criminals their boyfriends, university-age dependent children, invalid parents, other prostitutes with whom they share expenses, or anyone else they as much as ASSIST with money are. Thus whores are once again made pariahs, prohibited by law from having families or even roommates, while the legislators can feel “progressive” about repealing their old discriminatory laws and replacing them with ones intended to “protect” us from domination by males (except, of course, for the male government officials who write laws to control us and collect “fines” from our earnings). So at the end of the day abusive, controlling pimps who steal whores’ money and give them nothing in return really aren’t that rare after all; they just have government plates on their pimpmobiles and wear uniforms or judicial robes rather than garish outfits with silly hats.


http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/pimps/





According to stereotypes, a pimp is a man who controls a sex workers’ work and income. The reality is that many sex workers work independently. Some choose to associate with colleagues to share their resources, such as a workplace. Some prefer working for various employers, particularly women or men who own escort agencies or massage parlours. Some associate with partners to ensure that they get help and protection in case of need. The stereotypical image of the pimp does not correspond with the different contexts for sex work. Sex work may, indeed, require maintaining professional relationships with third parties such as employers, managers, drivers or receptionists, for economical or security reasons, or to make sure that the initial agreement is respected. The criminalization of pimps (employers or third party) makes it difficult to perform sex work safely. Once again, this criminalization is seldom used to protect women against violence.

Sex workers who are under the control of another person are most often in a situation of conjugal violence within their working context. This situation results from the intimate ties that sex workers may have with the employer or third party. When sex workers want to file a complaint and break the cycle of conjugal violence, their efforts are difficult because they are criminalized.

http://www.chezstella.org/






And is everyone done with the racist stereotypical pimp pictures already?

Sheesh.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,136
44
48
Montréal
To me a pimp is a pimp is a pimp, no matter how one wants to disguise it, gloss it over or pour a gallon of Eau de Cartier Men's Cologne on it to kill the stench.

Why are we defending the thoughts of someone possibly taking large chunks of a ladies earnings for 1 percent of her work load.?? Answer phone calls and make arrangement with people that the 'pimp' will never have to meet, never mind having to suck an uncovered c*ck with desires to cum in your mouth, or spread your legs for a guy with a hairy beer gut bigger than the barrel the beer came in. Paaaleease, what's wrong with this picture ???

I am sure most of the ladies on here cringe when they hear the word pimp, as it relates to: "Get your ass out there, sell your pussy and bring me ALL the money. Some may have had, or possibly have one now, ..But I'm pretty sure, each and every one of them much prefer the independent route, where money earned, means money kept.

So this is how you also feel about escort agencies, madams, fellow escorts who may help others out in exchange for fair compensation, drivers?....

What about accountants, cleaning ladies? Do they qualify? Because they also profit...:rolleyes:


And while I do cringe at someone referring to themselves or advertising as independent when they in reality have a pimp/agent/helper/madam/agency/whatever doing the work for them, that's because to me, that is not an independent. My cringing doesn't have anything to do with the word pimp - I just don't have that same narrow, negative, stereotypical definition that most others here have of what a pimp is, I guess. To me, you can call it an agent, a madam or an agency owner and it still means the same thing as pimp.
 

johnsmit

Active member
May 4, 2013
1,298
16
38
i would .say why would she need a pimp.
But working a driver.. security...( all contrary to the law as it exists).. would be your bezt bet
Getting her call .. you would have to run adds.. and unless you are just replying by text or email.. you need a girl to answer phones... A mans voice dos not go over very well.. even though a man know what another man might want.... Funny Women only think they know.
thats why they post some stupit pic of asses.. and tits lol.. It takes a little more then that..

And dont get suckered into .. getting the bozz and drugs... you dont need that head ach.

Reading some of the comments from the ladies.. . sounds like you treat your drivers like shit... It about curtacy and respect by both parties.. Remember why you are working as an escort and not at the day job.. because .you did not get those two things and a shity wage

A good drive can allway work for other girls that appreciate them
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
5,655
839
113
Pimp my workout.................maybe.

 

iluvclam

New member
Sep 6, 2013
50
0
0
Miss*Bijou said:
And while I do cringe at someone referring to themselves or advertising as independent when they in reality have a pimp/agent/helper/madam/agency/whatever doing the work for them, that's because to me, that is not an independent. My cringing doesn't have anything to do with the word pimp - I just don't have that same narrow, negative, stereotypical definition that most others here have of what a pimp is, I guess. To me, you can call it an agent, a madam or an agency owner and it still means the same thing as pimp.
isnt that what most guys have been saying all along? i definitely did. you kind of agreed with all of us yet argued it at the same time. pimp may be the more slang/derogatory term but agencies, agents, handlers are all the same to me.

unfortunately for the women that cant seem to organize for themselves these middle people are a necessary evil. a lot of the especially younger women dont have the credit to rent a nice 5star condo dt, this support doesnt come for free.
some agents are extremely helpful but many are a nuisance and extremely inefficient.
 

Cami Parker

Beautiful Blonde Dream Girl
Mar 7, 2013
2,105
59
63
Vancouver, BC
www.camiparker.ca
I'm sorry, the only reason I take such offence to the word is because when I lived in Nevada, I did an exposé for CNN about the state of the "pimps and ho's" working the strip in Vegas. The things those guys did to the ladies were so devastatingly horrible, and they wore that word with such a badge of honor, that whenever I hear the word it just makes me think of them and makes me sick. I realize that you didn't mean that you wanted to be one of "those guys", it's just a kind of nauseating word for me, given my experience with those that embrace the word so freely...
Appologies if you were offended by my natural reaction
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,136
44
48
Montréal
isnt that what most guys have been saying all along? i definitely did. you kind of agreed with all of us yet argued it at the same time. pimp may be the more slang/derogatory term but agencies, agents, handlers are all the same to me.
Yes, I believe we do agree but no, I don't believe everyone on this thread has the same opinion. I didn't quote you and disagree..so I'm not sure why a) you assumed I had disagreed with you b) that would mean I am also disagreeing with everyone else (ie. that everyone else who has posted shared your opinion)..?


- Some people had a problem with his use of the word pimp but are fine if he calls it being an agent.

- Some people had a problem with his use of the word pimp and still have a problem if he calls it agent because they think he'd be taking advantage of her and are against anyone profiting from her work during appointments. The fact that she has asked him doesn't change anything, it's exploitation any way you look at it. (Still waiting for an answer on whether that's how they see Madam's, agency owners/managers etc.)

- Some people had no problem with his use of the word pimp and they'd be fine with the word agent because the words all mean the same thing. (That would be my opinion as well as yours)

Then I added that personally what makes me cringe is if she still calls herself independent and hides the fact that someone else is doing all of the work except for the actual appointments. For two reasons: 1) It's not fair to lead men to believe they are emailing her when it's in fact some dude pretending to be her 2) In my view, she's not independent when she's paying someone to be her handler. This goes back to it being irrelevant what you call what he's doing pimp/agent/whatever, what it boils down to is he's doing exactly what an agency would do and that makes her not independent in my book (but not everyone agrees with me on this).

(Basically the last bit has nothing to do with you guys, the law, exploitation or pimps, it's just a small beef I have with the whole "handler"/independent girl schtik. All it is is a cheaper cut than she'd have to pay to an agency - but not really because she's still paying for her advertising which she wouldn't have to with an agency. It's a pseudo independent. LOL ;) and it doesn't make much sense to me)


And now I can tell Flanders he doesn't know what he's talking about :D ;)
 

iluvclam

New member
Sep 6, 2013
50
0
0
my idealogy of independent is something along the lines of the woman handles all of her own calls txts and emails and pays for her own advertising. when a guy calls he is only and at all times only speaking directly with the woman. she may be allowed to rent an incall for the session or have a hired driver/safety call when needed, but they at no times operate beyond those capabilities.

if you are arranging clients for the woman you are a pimp. if you are answering her calls and emails and txts and representing yourself as the woman you are a pimp. if you are casting audtions to see if the woman will cut it as an escort you are a pimp. if you are acting as a screening agent or liason of calls you are a pimp. if you are offering drugs as a means to retain and hook women into remaining escorts you are disgusting pimp.

i find nothing flaterring about the term at all. but i guess its kinda like the only way to lure the younger women into starting in the industry. its rather exploitive i find. most have little say in the clients they get to meet and for that lose out on 30-50% of the revenue. fair? hardly.

otherwise i fully agree with what you just mentioned.
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts