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The tent removal on Hastings

angry anderson

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I know we had a thread a while ago. Probably got shut down, but I heard two sane comments by street people on the street. One old guy who looked poor said " couldn't they find somewhere better to camp than right here?" Another guy who looked like a poor working guy said " How are they allowed to go completely nuts here? " or words to that effect.
My sister, who worked for the Welfare Department when it was called that, said a lot of them got evicted from SRO's because they trashed the place they lived in and were a hazard to everybody else.
The logic that their tent cities deserve some modicum of respect is contradicted by the fact that they turn their squats into a garbage tip.
 

Forum mod

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If this stays civil it will remain, if it devolves into nasty name calling and other drama, it will get nuked.

The vast majority of those in tent encampments decline shelter and housing options when offered. They do not trust the system and they are not allowed to use substances when in shelters. Many of them have migrated there from other parts of BC and Canada thanks to safe injection sites and now free drug programs. Look to San Francisco, LA and Seattle if you want to see where this is likely headed. It's a thorny issue with high emotions on all sides. Harm reduction may be the preferred method of many, but the results on the street are a sad sight to see.
 

angry anderson

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Civil it be then. However, it seems we have gotten into an entrenched Palestinian Israel situation. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The accepted norm seems to be that homeless feel quite entitled to squat downtown. In every city in North America. Word got out that this is the place to be. As mentioned, safe injection sites. Extended family situation of being with your own kind. Fuck all incentive to do anything but exist for decades as an entitled eyesore. Because society has basically accepted it as the norm and shrugs it off as an "oh well" situation.
Vagrancy laws existed years ago. And they were enforced. Just seems that the homeless are just an unsolvable problem that we have to learn to live with.
Deep problem, but somehow it triggers a memory of an ex girlfriend who thrived on chaos and drama. When I was yet again being summoned to deal with yet another of her fuckups she said "So what are you going to do about me?"
I came to Vancouver in the early 80's and skid row was in the same place. Just without the block after block of tents.
 
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Equity Market investor

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I think it's very tragic what they've done down there on Main and Hastings. Other than the reasons specified above by posters here, the question arises.... Where will they all go? The outskirts of Metro Vancouver and beyond? Very recently, I found out from a friend who I went to school from home town ( a small town several hours east of Vancouver), he told me there were now a couple of alleys swarmed with tents.
Well, I'm here to tell you that that has never, ever, happened in the 2 decades having grown up there. NEVER! What is happening in our world?
One thing I really believe is that they are moving all of these people out for future development / investors to take over and revamp that whole area. Enormous real estate space opportunity down there. It something that will not happen over night but, it's inevitable. That is my view on this and it's sad.
 

angry anderson

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I think it's very tragic what they've done down there on Main and Hastings. Other than the reasons specified above by posters here, the question arises.... Where will they all go? The outskirts of Metro Vancouver and beyond? Very recently, I found out from a friend who I went to school from home town ( a small town several hours east of Vancouver), he told me there were now a couple of alleys swarmed with tents.
Well, I'm here to tell you that that has never, ever, happened in the 2 decades having grown up there. NEVER! What is happening in our world?
One thing I really believe is that they are moving all of these people out for future development / investors to take over and revamp that whole area. Enormous real estate space opportunity down there. It something that will not happen over night but, it's inevitable. That is my view on this and it's sad.
Unscrupulous developers noted, but they didn't "start the fire" . This is a new continent wide problem in North America. There is just an acceptance that this is the landscape before the zombie apocalypse.
 

Ray

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A significant portion of the population can no longer afford to buy or rent a place in any major city in North America. If the parents were renters, the kids are, and will be, screwed royally. If the parents were home owners, the kids might still have a chance.
Homelessness will only increase because of this.
 

Big_Guy_Rye

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Perhaps the point of the VPD's street sweeping is to keep them destabilized, not 'trying to outright get rid of them'.

With crime getting that bad, having them all congregate and feeding off their own negative energies will always exasperate violence. Breaking up the congregation, separating them far enough from each other, even for a little while, would styme such violence, creating a reprieve for police and advocates to figure out their next move.

They'll be back, for sure, ...and the crime will rise again, and the cops will sweep again.....wash, rinse, repeat. ... but don't believe the end goal was to see if they could clean up DTES forever, lol....no, they know what they're doing.
 
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A very good friend of mine works for the city of Vancouver and he and others in the rank believe that eventually, sections of the downtown eastside will be replaced by condo high-rise buildings.
Yaletown, long ago was a not so good of an area either and look how that turned out.
Your may be right with your assessment, but, don't think for a minute that very wealthy investors have already eyed that whole downtown eastside for real estate opportunities. Vancouver is a never ending changing city and it's certainly not leaning towards the rags.

but don't believe the end goal was to see if they could clean up DTES forever, lol....no, they know what they're doing.
 

angry anderson

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A very good friend of mine works for the city of Vancouver and he and others in the rank believe that eventually, sections of the downtown eastside will be replaced by condo high-rise buildings.
Yaletown, long ago was a not so good of an area either and look how that turned out.
Your may be right with your assessment, but, don't think for a minute that very wealthy investors have already eyed that whole downtown eastside for real estate opportunities. Vancouver is a never ending changing city and it's certainly not leaning towards the rags.
I don't remember Yaletown as being a not so good area. The skids was always the skids. But not like this. Some of the tent residents seem surprisingly articulate and sober when interviewed. As in they have all their marbles. I don't know what the problem is entirely, but acceptance of the situation seems to be be a lot of the problem.
 

Equity Market investor

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I didn't say yaletown was as bad as the downtown eastside. My reference was that yaletown was not that nice way back and that big money definitely changed the scene as we know it today.

But anyway, let's not take a detour from the original meaning of your thread here. The real problem is that humanity is being thrown aside and without aide. Vancouver's very high cost of living and with added inflation to the picture....it's drowning a lot of residents. Getting rid of the tents? What problems are being solved by doing that? What about the humanity part of it? The one that matters!!



I don't remember Yaletown as being a not so good area. The skids was always the skids. But not like this. Some of the tent residents seem surprisingly articulate and sober when interviewed. As in they have all their marbles. I don't know what the problem is entirely, but acceptance of the situation seems to be be a lot of the problem.
 
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PuntMeister

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I believe the provincial government’s stand on homelessness and tent towns has already failed, and will continue to utterly fail.

They refuse to consider the reality that these people need a legit place to exist THAT IS NOT GOV’T CONTROLLED HOUSING with required living under GOV’T CONTROLS AND RULES.

You can sweep the homeless off of the street, but you can’t sweep street culture out of the homeless.

Some will accept social housing from big brother DEby, but most won’t because that’s not how they’ve chosen to live.

The absurb assertion that we simply need to provide housing for all is an egotistical naive policy failure that is constantly perpetuating harm.

We are living groundhog day here folks. Please tell your elected officials that housing is not the problem, and won’t ever be the solution to the homeless problem. And we don’t need more rhetoric about how complicated a problem this is, we need courage and action to actually deal with mental illness and Solutions for Safe Street Living (SSSL).
 
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Mrmotorscooter

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They can build construction camps way up north that house 5,000 workers. I‘m sure that could easily be built in a less populated area in BC. If they offered free drugs of your choice to move there I’d bet a lot of hardcore addicts wouldn't think twice to live in a place with a roof over your head 3 square meals a day and all the dope you needed. A rehab program with vocational training could be part of this, they also need a new asylum for the mentally ill as they cannot take care of themselves, an institution would serve them well.
All this should not ever be allowed to flourish on the sidewalks of a Canadian city, it’s costing Billions every year and the high paid babysitters that run the systems and SRO’s on the DTES are just sucking up that cash while doing as little as possible.
 

angry anderson

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They can build construction camps way up north that house 5,000 workers. I‘m sure that could easily be built in a less populated area in BC. If they offered free drugs of your choice to move there I’d bet a lot of hardcore addicts wouldn't think twice to live in a place with a roof over your head 3 square meals a day and all the dope you needed. A rehab program with vocational training could be part of this, they also need a new asylum for the mentally ill as they cannot take care of themselves, an institution would serve them well.
All this should not ever be allowed to flourish on the sidewalks of a Canadian city, it’s costing Billions every year and the high paid babysitters that run the systems and SRO’s on the DTES are just sucking up that cash while doing as little as possible.
And guess who they could hire to build them, while receiving vocational training?
 

westwoody

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A significant portion of the population can no longer afford to buy or rent a place in any major city in North America.
I know younger people who have been saving for years. Their chances of getting a house are steadily diminishing.
 
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westwoody

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, it’s costing Billions every year
Harm reduction would cost less but is unpopular. Lots of people go nuts about wasting their tax dollars on anything benefitting anyone but themselves.
The homeless campers and mentally ill/addicts use up fire/paramedic/police resources that cost more than assisted living spaces.
Harm reduction doesn’t have to be perfect, it’s better than ignoring the issue.

Even here in Winnipeg I see more and mentally ill wandering around. I work at the airport - the middle of nowhere - and we have to chase people out of our parking lots trying to loot our cars.

There is a program called Build that hires people to teach them basic general labour skills for construction. A lot of these street people have no resources ie phone, clean clothes, steel toe shoes. Helping them is difficult and frustrating.
 

Big_Guy_Rye

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don't think for a minute that very wealthy investors have already eyed that whole downtown eastside for real estate opportunities.
Oh definitely not.

Blood is running in the streets, it's time to buy property.

Investors and developers will in fact bank on this somehow on their end.

Harm reduction would cost less but is unpopular. Lots of people go nuts about wasting their tax dollars on anything benefitting anyone but themselves.
The homeless campers and mentally ill/addicts use up fire/paramedic/police resources that cost more than assisted living spaces.
Harm reduction doesn’t have to be perfect, it’s better than ignoring the issue.
Harm Reduction ALONE is unpopular because all it does is ignore the solutions to the issue, while enabling drug culture... IMO, HR alone is a grift.

The "Four Pillars Approach" into solving these social issues have been cited many times in such discussions. Those pillars are "Prevention", "Harm Reduction", "Recovery", and "Enforcement"...

As the REAL problem is that it's the NDP (backed by Trudeau's Liberals) to focus solely on "Harm Reduction", discounting the value of "Prevention", "Recovery", and "Enforcement". HR plans is to stick all the addicts into a rut, and fill it with all the free needles, so-called 'safe supply', and Naloxone, "just to stop them from dying", but leaves no room for accountability or any contingencies if their programs fail. Otherwise, they start crying "stigma", so people will back off and the problems continue on.

"Lots of people go nuts about wasting their tax dollars on anything benefitting anyone but themselves."

YEAH, ..that's how it works... What makes your think people are obligated to believe otherwise? If my tax dollars are going into these half-baked Harm Reduction practices, and the death toll keeps rising either by overdoses or crime; showing zero progress from these social programs that seem to keep taking those tax dollars and producing zero results... You bet people are going to get mad, when they are forced to pay 50% of their earnings just so they can't walk down the street without getting randomly attacked..... what would you expect otherwise? Obligated Kindness?... In human history, you think that ever worked for any Institutionalized Religion trying to gaslight the masses into submission for the "true powers" of this world? Perhaps so, if social issues were at a minimum, but these days, in Trudeau's Canada (and his WEF machinations)? Post-COVID? It doesn't hold the weight it used to. Survival instincts rev up and a person has to do what they have to do. Just like those living on DTES' streets, just like anyone who can still work enough to keep their roof over their heads and afford such latitude that becomes a buffer against living in abject poverty. We're all trying to survive, and when push comes to shove "they who have the most toys win" (in this case, seeing our tax dollars at work sweeping DTES clean)

There is also a component to these equations that seem to get missed a lot by advocate groups is that those people are in fact, STONE COLD LOSERS. Not because they lost at life, I mean we've all taken that trip down the dark side of life one time or another, and most of us do rise above and become stronger and more self-reliant. But there are those who if you were to take that red-carpet cure-all treatment and roll it right up to their toes and even nudge them to put that first foot on such carpet. They would jump right off and go back to their antics. Those people no matter how much money is spent, are total write-offs. Those describe perfectly the type of people that occupy DTES. That's why I don't feel too bad about this sweep and clear, because options are available if getting housing was that important to them, but they chose to be there instead. They only fall back on the "wah wah wah gimmie housing" when everyone else become too fed up with their bullshit, and claim it's a systematic failure of our government, instead of taking personal responsibility to realize what a piece of shit these people really are... but I digress.

HR doesn't work alone. You need the other three to work in unison for results to improve. Look at Portland and San Francisco. Those cities are DEAD for exercising the same HR practices as Vancouver does, and we only just begun this 3 year long decriminalization plan.
 
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