Open discussion: Where is the line?

[felixthecat]

Apparently the majority of contributers to this thread favour less censorship & more freedom of speech, not less.

This is not a democracy. The opinion of majority is not a decisive argument.

Democratic decisions can be quite stupid. You'll think of examples yourself. Internet makes things worse because anonymity and lack of responsibility bring out some worst tendencies.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Well, some of these are just adult language, and I think most of us can tolerate it - but up to a point. It is not an absolute. I dislike censorship, and I have a sicker sense of humour / higher tolerance for gore than probably 95% of the population.
But I also know there's certain things that are just antithetical to what the site is about.

The plain fact is, this is PERB, not 4Chan - it's here to help screen out the potentially shitty experiences. That goes both ways, for SP's and clients. If this place is a cess-pit, the SPs will avoid it, and the clients will too. And then the site dies and then say goodbye to all the self-protection the site offers.

Other subjects (see above) could actually result in the whole thing being shut down by LE. If they tolerate this place at all, it's only because they tolerate the thing it's about. But that can evaporate in a flash if there's something more vexatiously unlegal than just the usual subject matter. Could also be enough of an excuse for someone with an moral axe to grind to paint the site as being something it is not, in the media.

Think of the site as private property. Their house, their rules. And the Mods first responsibility is to safeguard the site.

I like you.

 

[badbadboy]

I know some of those guys were difficult. I get that. But, they contributed. Between just Badger and Dickson they had almost 10,000 posts.

More importantly, they were always on the look out for new talent and willing to TOFTT, which I found great value in.

I'm not particularly close to either of those guys. I'm just saying 3-5 years back it seemed like there were a lot more reviews, many of which were very entertaining and well written.

I miss Hatrick, but I can also think about a half dozen posters that I miss too.

Lance you are incorrect stating the above; neither one of them ever TOFTT with local SP's. I was mostly in before them. BJ acknowledged this factoid but it's not available due to his request for post deletion. One PM exchange with the guy from Berlin was memorable because I'd seen one of the new premier SP's on the Vancouver scene. I answered all his questions in a straight forward manner and his reply was "thanks, I'll wait for BJ to see her".

I laughed my ass off when she said she wasn't a number on his bedpost and will never see him".

I never did see her name (not her equally hot duo partner) on the infamous list ound:

They did, however know the Toronto SP scene and I gained knowledge from them. For that, I'm thankful because I've got to know some excellent providers from Toronto.

 

[ddcanz]

Let me address a few things T8E to put your mind at rest.

1. I am somehow affiliated with the infamous Badger John. I'm not. He approached me regarding a harassment case for an SP. I offered to assist. If you, BBB, etc came to me for the same thing I'd have no issues assisting. After all, I was involved in that professionally. Talking to someone does not equate to being friends. I talked to Kevin Mitnick at Defcon a few years ago. Am I buddies with him? No (but I wish). **Mitnick is a world renowed blackhat hacker turned professional**

2. I don't poon. Correct. For most of the last 10 years I've been in a relationship on some level with a woman in the sex industry. Why would I disrespect her by running off and pooning? Her job is her job. My buying sex is not my job. Further, as a guy who committed a portion of his life to the assistance and location of marginalized and missing women, you get the conflict of interest, right? "Oh sorry your daughters in a bog on the Highway of Tears, anyways, I've gotta run out and get my dick sucked. A man needs his loving!!!."

3. How many times have I had sex with an SP. Well technically thousands, but the number of times I paid is in the single digits. See point 2. It's been so long I can't remember the date anymore. I'm OK with my decision.

4. Why am I on this forum. Aside from my desire to read about the inconsistency with fast food, um, because I want to be. I spent years with one foot planted firmly in this industry. Imagine...me being interested in it.

5. I pad my stats. If I was inclined I'd write a python script which would post a photo of a cat on an hourly basis (every 15 minutes on Caturday)

6. I don't write reviews. But imagine if I did. "She jumped in the passenger seat of my car, and I said hello and gave her a kiss. We drove for a bit, I parked the car and we went inside, sat down and we discussed the menu. I marveled at the woman sitting across from me. Articulate and beautiful and definitely a spirited woman. Our conversation drifted from food to what book each of us is reading to how my condo hunting expedition is going. Then, just before she dipped her bruschetta she looked at me and said "Did you see what T8E wrote in Perb?" No, I gasped, I didn't.

How's that? It's an accurate review excluding the part about discussing you T8E. She just kept putting the bruschetta in the dip and eating it. And I had some too. Wow, my first review. My second one is titled "Getting a smoothie at Whole Foods".

To your point #2:
I don't get it.
What has your relationship with an SP have to do with you disrespecting her and running off and pooning?
Wouldn't that logic then hold true for any dude pooning if he is in a relationship- why is it different with an SP SO?
And whose job is it to go out and buy sex? That's a bit of a retarded statement comparison to your SO's vocation. (ooops- retarded- hope that doesn't offend anyone with mentally challenged relations! )
And conflict of interest? Really? Then also by your logic any dude who has has known an abused woman or rape victim or is compassionate to the cause would also be in a COI and a real dirt for paying to get his dick sucked?
By extension then you would pretty much disrespect most members on this board?
And what does that say about the legitimate and professional "dick suckers" that we all frequent? They must really have a warped outlook to on the one hand speak up for the many missing, raped, abused etc. women and on the other hand still continue with their chosen profession.
Just sounds like you are talking down to us from a moral high-ground in this less than moral environment we all inhabit.
Just sayin'.....

 

[PayForItPal]

Lance you are incorrect stating the above; neither one of them ever TOFTT with local SP's. I was mostly in before them. BJ acknowledged this factoid but it's not available due to his request for post deletion. One PM exchange with the guy from Berlin was memorable because I'd seen one of the new premier SP's on the Vancouver scene. I answered all his questions in a straight forward manner and his reply was "thanks, I'll wait for BJ to see her".

I laughed my ass off when she said she wasn't a number on his bedpost and will never see him".

I never did see her name (not her equally hot duo partner) on the infamous list ound:

They did, however know the Toronto SP scene and I gained knowledge from them. For that, I'm thankful because I've got to know some excellent providers from Toronto.

3B and I, have had one conflict in the past, and no others. I have to agree with 3B statement on this one. Lance alot is legend, but 3b has made multiple valid statements.

 

[cktc9]

This board has helped me to find the right experiences and I am totally indebted to the members here who have the ability to write well regarding their experiences.

No, I don't post much. I'm probably that quiet guy at the table in the corner you see most places, just watching for the most part.
And how do I review a DNR?

I can't see the use of creating an "anything goes" section, since it will attract a growing "well, anything goes, so here goes, because it says I can" momentum.
It will be associated with PERB, and not in a good way. It will be avoided by the likes of myself, and attract a pool of members whose only contribution is the fine art of extreme tastelessness.
Keeping a consistent mod policy across all forums gets my vote.

I didn't see the "sick joke" thread, and wouldn't have bothered looking at it if I had.
I already find enough borderline insensitivity in the opinion threads to keep me from reading or participating in most of them.
My hometown is a small BC milltown, and racism, etc was the norm. I don't miss it.
I'm Caucasian, my wife is Asian, and when you live in that relationship, you become quite attuned to the insensitivity all around. Hell, even my uncle back home can't stop telling Chinaman jokes, even straight to my wife's face (she's not Chinese), and he expects her to laugh right along with it. He's an old fart who won't change, and everyone else just cringes. My wife's tough, and just dead-pan's him.

Anywho, Thanks to all the contributors who have made this a place that I visit regularly.

I'm probably one of the silent majority who just hopes we can all be civil and discuss the topic rather than insult the poster.

 

[PerbMod]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. To clarify some inaccurate assumptions: Badger quit rather than face the 1 year long ban he had coming for multiple and blatant abuse of other posters. His holier than thou approach turned off many. Dickson crossed several lines in his dealings with paid advertisers and other providers and while banned for a short term, created a new handle and attempted to sneak back on the board, which made the bans permanent. Neither should be considered an example to be followed.

What we are trying to create is a friendly, welcoming space, where new contributors can feel supported, not attacked. Where reviews are honest, good or bad, but respectful and not insulting or demeaning. Where everyone can have some fun, have a laugh or two and expose the cheats/thieves, the WOT/WOMs, the B&S providers and play safe. If everyone can do that, the moderation here should be very light and almost not noticeable. Only where that doesn't happen will the mods/admins have to be more active and visible.

 

[Bad Santa]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. To clarify some inaccurate assumptions: Badger quit rather than face the 1 year long ban he had coming for multiple and blatant abuse of other posters. His holier than thou approach turned off many. Dickson crossed several lines in his dealings with paid advertisers and other providers and while banned for a short term, created a new handle and attempted to sneak back on the board, which made the bans permanent. Neither should be considered an example to be followed.

What we are trying to create is a friendly, welcoming space, where new contributors can feel supported, not attacked. Where reviews are honest, good or bad, but respectful and not insulting or demeaning. Where everyone can have some fun, have a laugh or two and expose the cheats/thieves, the WOT/WOMs, the B&S providers and play safe. If everyone can do that, the moderation here should be very light and almost not noticeable. Only where that doesn't happen will the mods/admins have to be more active and visible.

This is of course a private board so in the end you have to run it the way you see fit. Overall, I think you guys are doing a pretty good job. Since it is a private board though, I still think it would be a good idea to have guys pay a membership fee before they can post on the board. I think they'd be more responsible in how they post and there would be less trolls. It would also even up the revenue stream for the board between advertisers and clients giving both groups an equal influence on the decisions of the board. Just a thought although I know it might not be a popular one.

 

[ddcanz]

This is of course a private board so in the end you have to run it the way you see fit. Overall, I think you guys are doing a pretty good job. Since it is a private board though, I still think it would be a good idea to have guys pay a membership fee before they can post on the board. I think they'd be more responsible in how they post and there would be less trolls. It would also even up the revenue stream for the board between advertisers and clients giving both groups an equal influence on the decisions of the board. Just a thought although I know it might not be a popular one.

To me it would just increase the number of lurkers and leaches that sit back and suck up info without ever contributing. Alternatively, it might actually slow down the incessant and inane 411 queries that ramble on for days without the OP ever actually hooking up with anyone because after 15 follow up questions to extract every last bit of minutiae, some poor chick has the 'misfortune' of preferring McDonald's fries to A&W's- simply unconscionable and definitely a deal breaker, for sure!.

 

[felixthecat]

Sorry BBB, but the problem with absolute statements like "neither one of them EVER" is that they are easily disproved with just a few examples. I personally know of several.

Go ahead, show us if that's easy. Show us those TOFTT reviews by Badger and Dickson. Dickson's posts are still here. Badger decided to delete his posts, nobody else to blame if his legacy does not appear so great now.

I recall Badger's MO indeed was to follow footsteps of others (including a few TOFTTs of mine). Cannot recall any TOFTT of his.

Even then his reviews were not fully reliable due to his determination to review every encounter, and possibly sacrifice objectivity to make it sound positive. I once believed him for what he described as a great GFE, only to see the girl was not GFE at all (germaphobe, no fluid exchange, honest SP but too restrictive). Then I realized some unknown posters provided better info on that girl than BadgerJohn did.

I was not his enemy ever, yet it's hard to miss the point when somebody becomes a total asshole. Posing as a PERB police, lashing out at new members, that's the kind of people we do very well without.

 

[sevenofnine]

who would want to be a moderator and referee this zoo,

 

[felixthecat]

who would want to be a moderator and referee this zoo,

Very concise and accurate remark.

I was always wondering about that myself.

 

[Peyton Alexander]

who would want to be a moderator and referee this zoo,

Speaking as someone who voluntarily moderates a massive sports forum, you have to have a baseline of 'moderately insane and masochistic'.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Speaking as someone who voluntarily moderates a massive sports forum, you have to have a baseline of 'moderately insane and masochistic'.

Yup . Sounds like you. Good thing you're cute!

 

[sybian]

Yup . Sounds like you. Good thing you're cute!

I would have to agree with you there.......it seems we have the same good taste in women.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

I would have to agree with you there.......it seems we have the same good taste in women.

We do, do we? We should definitely pursue that sometime...

 

[badbadboy]

Go ahead, show us if that's easy. Show us those TOFTT reviews by Badger and Dickson. Dickson's posts are still here. Badger decided to delete his posts, nobody else to blame if his legacy does not appear so great now.

I recall Badger's MO indeed was to follow footsteps of others (including a few TOFTTs of mine). Cannot recall any TOFTT of his.

Even then his reviews were not fully reliable due to his determination to review every encounter, and possibly sacrifice objectivity to make it sound positive. I once believed him for what he described as a great GFE, only to see the girl was not GFE at all (germaphobe, no fluid exchange, honest SP but too restrictive). Then I realized some unknown posters provided better info on that girl than BadgerJohn did.

I was not his enemy ever, yet it's hard to miss the point when somebody becomes a total asshole. Posing as a PERB police, lashing out at new members, that's the kind of people we do very well without.

You are correct the rose coloured glasses he wore did not allow an accurate assessment of some SP's, their service and in a few cases their looks. Getting caught up in the flavour of the day can sometimes turned into a WOM for me.

Posters really do need to post they way they would speak to another person face to face. Sure we can have our disagreements on the board but it never degrades to name calling or other petty comments.

This is why I largely avoided the recent BC Election thread. Normally in past years polarized subjects like politics degraded quickly to name calling of insults. Reviewing it again, I'd say this years thread was actually quite calm and both sides offered good content.

 

[take8easy]

You are correct the rose coloured glasses he wore did not allow an accurate assessment of some SP's, their service and in a few cases their looks. Getting caught up in the flavour of the day can sometimes turned into a WOM for me.

Posters really do need to post they way they would speak to another person face to face. Sure we can have our disagreements on the board but it never degrades to name calling or other petty comments.

This is why I largely avoided the recent BC Election thread. Normally in past years polarized subjects like politics degraded quickly to name calling of insults. Reviewing it again, I'd say this years thread was actually quite calm and both sides offered good content.

(I forgot to quote felixthecat's post here)

I just checked in after a bit of break and look what this thread has turned into.

Regarding Badger, I could not agree more about his very subjective reviews. I sometimes got the sense that he was always trying to score points with SP's. Not to beat a dead horse, but he kind of implied that people, like me, hurt sp's business by pointing out something, that say, he might not mention.

Frankly, I did not care for him. Especially when he took his dog and pony show to another board and slowly lots of other members from here followed (including Dickson and many SP's). Clearly he was upset at what happened here and I guess he was trying to hurt PERB by asking people to join there.

Very soon, it got hostile there as well. Not coincidentally, PERB became a friendlier place and I quietly stopped going to the other board. PERB has been pretty good for last few months. There is very little yelling and screaming going on. People are very less hostile to newbies. But seems like a few (new) members are stirring it up again. Oh well, I will leave it to the mod to keep things under check.

By the way, I just started the sick joke thread, I did not post any of the D*** H***** jokes. Looking back at it, yea, I can see the tastelessness of such humor.

Anyway, time to move on.

 

[Damaged]

I'm in the camp of less censorship is better within reason. Personal attacks shouldn't be tolerated at all or advocating violence or outing of personal information and a few other reasons I'm sure I can think of. But censoring a joke thread seems a little extreme. Sure it is in poor taste and I myself wouldn't post a dead hooker joke but I'm not sure that it should be censored.

...Other than blocking T8E (which I have no reason to), I had little chance to avoid seeing them...

Really? Can't you just not open the thread and avoid them that easily?

...I really don't understand exactly why you are here at all. You don't poon, yet your opinion gets
the lemmings following you off the cliff.

Carry on.

I wonder as well?

To your point #2:
I don't get it.
What has your relationship with an SP have to do with you disrespecting her and running off and pooning?
Wouldn't that logic then hold true for any dude pooning if he is in a relationship- why is it different with an SP SO?
And whose job is it to go out and buy sex? That's a bit of a retarded statement comparison to your SO's vocation. (ooops- retarded- hope that doesn't offend anyone with mentally challenged relations! )
And conflict of interest? Really? Then also by your logic any dude who has has known an abused woman or rape victim or is compassionate to the cause would also be in a COI and a real dirt for paying to get his dick sucked?
By extension then you would pretty much disrespect most members on this board?
And what does that say about the legitimate and professional "dick suckers" that we all frequent? They must really have a warped outlook to on the one hand speak up for the many missing, raped, abused etc. women and on the other hand still continue with their chosen profession.
Just sounds like you are talking down to us from a moral high-ground in this less than moral environment we all inhabit.
Just sayin'.....

I well written response that raises many questions.

 

[lenny]

And for those wondering what happens when you allow mostly unfettered free speech you get this ---> http://boards.4chan.org/b/ (the realm of trolls and hackers). I've seen bomb threats, threats against schools & one guy who murdered his wife, took photos of her dead body and posted them. That's what you get when you allow unfettered free speech.

I expect such postings here would result in the mod being alerted and permanent bans.

Evidently even in the hospital sanitized atmosphere we have now, things like requests for drug deals and a dead hooker joke have recently arisen.

Of course those with "thin skins" would probably have the good common sense to avoid a forum by a title of "Not For The Timid" that is known to allow more (not unlimited) liberty of speech, as desired by a large percentage of PERB members who posted in this thread. A sticky or announcement could be made in that regard.

Threads that got out of hand in the Lounge, instead of being nuked or locked, could be dumped there.

To discourage PERB newcomers from being exposed to it, the freedom of speech forum could be located "down under" the BDSM threads.

This seems to be a compromising solution to satisfy almost everyone. Those who don't wish to see such threads would not see them. Those who do, would. And required moderation would be minimal.

Shall we have a poll to vote on this or a similar proposition?