New study debunks myth that feminsits hate men

[vitaminD]

I think the thread could use less opinion and examples and more reference to research, though I recognize the nature of the board is better suited to elicit opinion. Charlee started the thread with a reference to a large scale study that yielded result related to the issue of feminist attitude toward men (they don't hate them). While I suggested that I would like to see replication or at least more studies that generate further insight, she has presented an argument that I find more compelling than the myriad opinions and random observations about feminism and the treatment of women in society.

Why bother doing that when charlee only responds to certain things and ignores good points and evidence that disagrees with her?

same with the white knights, who just screech "misogyny" when someone shares a different view or facts

I listed some facts that can be quickly fact checked on google, but nobody replied.

It makes sense to share personal stories and anecdotes in this discussion, as many young men here are aware of the prevalence of affirmative action for women for anyone born passed 1990, maybe even earlier. I could post my companies mission statements that clearly state all this, as well as my college information, which plainly states affirmative action for woman, but im obviously not going to doxx myself. This can be easily fact checked. Some men have raised this point, but there has been no response from Charlee or the white knights on this topic.





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[vitaminD]

Groan. Someone really needs to get a sense of humour. Ok, I will explain a joke:
It would be funny to want to exchange bodies with Ron Jeremy because who wouldn't want to have his perfect physique.


There I go feeding trolls again...sigh

good luck buddy.

 

[VinVan]

I disagree with the second part of your argument. Whats the reality? Once you inject victimhood in the mind no effort or priviledge can change it.

There is no doubt they suffered in past but now its not the case, Are you advocating to completely turn the situation where men or whites suffer the same way now. In this case its not a fight for equality but revenge.

The reality is that the paradigms or racism and sexism were centuries and millennia in the making. While it’s generally true that there is more equity than there ever has been in the west, it is not necessarily equal.

No feminist I have spoken to wants “revenge.” They merely want equality. And not just in the workplace but in the home where in the overwhelming instances of two-income homes, or where they are the breadwinners, they are still doing the majority of the unpaid labor of childcare and housework. And to be able to walk down the street at night without the fear of being molested or raped.

When Nelson Mandela became the first black president of South Africa he did not go on a “revenge” tour and start stringing up white people from Jo-Berg to Cape Town, which many feared he would. He struck up Truth and Reconciliation Commissions so that healing could begin and justice could be seen to be served.

When I look to our southern neighbors I’m surprised that there is no movement for “revenge” given the 400 years of slavery, brutality and oppression blacks suffered there.

 

[vitaminD]

The reality is that the paradigms or racism and sexism were centuries and millennia in the making. While it’s generally true that there is more equity than there ever has been in the west, it is not necessarily equal.

No feminist I have spoken to wants “revenge.” They merely want equality. And not just in the workplace but in the home where in the overwhelming instances of two-income homes, or where they are the breadwinners, they are still doing the majority of the unpaid labor of childcare and housework. And to be able to walk down the street at night without the fear of being molested or raped.

When Nelson Mandela became the first black president of South Africa he did not go on a “revenge” tour and start stringing up white people from Jo-Berg to Cape Town, which many feared he would. He struck up Truth and Reconciliation Commissions so that healing could begin and justice could be seen to be served.

When I look to our southern neighbors I’m surprised that there is no movement for “revenge” given the 400 years of slavery, brutality and oppression blacks suffered there.

Here we go, finally someone whose here to have a discussion, disagree, and debate respectfully. charlee and the white knights should take notes. kudos to you @VinVan

I don't agree that feminists are seeking revenge. In fact, I believe that most women who identify as feminists may not have a deep understanding of the movement and simply support the idea of gender equality, which is something we can all support. While most women I know personally do not exhibit this behavior, there are undoubtedly some well-known feminists in the media and on social platforms who do seek revenge. I have observed a few women in my own life who promote a form of feminism focused on seeking revenge and dominating men, but thankfully, they are in the minority.

The issue of unpaid labor at home varies from household to household. It's a valid point you raise, but I don't think any of us have enough information about the dynamics in each household to claim it as proof of a patriarchal system or anything like that.

obviously, none of us want women to live in fear of being raped or molested while walking home at night. I agree, this is a thing woman have to deal with which is horrible.

While the point about Nelson Mandela is valid, it's important to remember that in other parts of the world and throughout history, situations have not always resulted in peaceful resolution and instead led to conflict and revenge.

Do you have any objections or disagreements with the statistics or points I raised earlier?

Thanks again for engaging in a mature and respectful discussion.

 

[VinVan]

Statistically:
-The majority of homeless are men
-Men are 10x times more likely to be victims of violent crime
-Men statistically make up the majority of victims of domestic violence (fun fact: lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence)
-Men receive harsher punishments than woman for the same crimes
-Men are significantly more likely to die on the job
-Men must sign up for the draft

-Woman make up the majority of university students
-Woman get affirmative action in both university and in the workplace

Are you suggesting that men face more oppression than women? You didn't provide any specifics.

(I don't feel like I am being oppressed or victimized in any way btw)

I believe that men and women both face different issues that impact each of them.

What I have noticed is that.
It's consistently the same three individuals who act as white knights in discussions like this @VinVan @westwoody @carvesg . And theres a few others as well.
It's intriguing, though, because if you genuinely consider yourselves such advocates for women and a safe presence for them, nice guys, who are pleasant to be around, one might question why you would compensate for woman's companionship?
I've actually asked you guys this in other threads and discussions, I have posed this query to you all, but you consistently remain silent and disregard the question. Makes me wonder.

Vitamin D, I’m happy to have this discussion with you with the request that you stop with the name calling. I’m not “white knighting” anyone. I’m just offering my opinion, which on many points is the same as Charlee’s. And I would humbly suggest she doesn’t require a “knight” to defend her honor. Honesty, the term is just used as an insult to try and shut someone down.

There's a broader context to thwhole this thread and the previous ones about patriarchy (capitalism, neo-liberalism) or whatever handle you wish to assign to it.

I do not disagree with you about the following (although I would like to see your source for men being greater victims of domestic violence):


-The majority of homeless are men
-Men are 10x times more likely to be victims of violent crime
-Men statistically make up the majority of victims of domestic violence (fun fact: lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence)
-Men receive harsher punishments than woman for the same crimes
-Men are significantly more likely to die on the job
-Men must sign up for the draft

What I would ask you is:

1. What is the reason the majority of homeless are men?
2. Who is perpetrating the 10x violence against men? Women or other men?
3. What is the reason men get harsher sentences?
4. Why are men more likely to die on the job?
5. Who is compelling men to sign up for the draft? Women?

I think the answer to all of these questions is that it is baked into the system. Capitalism, if you will. It is by its nature an economic model that is predicated on winners and losers. In what other place, except in the epicentre of Capitalism, would you have 40 million uninsured (health) arguing against their own self interest to to sustain a system that enfeebles them?

And I’m curious about the reason you would question why I pay for sex? I suspect it’s for the same reasons you do and completely immaterial to the conversation.

 

[VinVan]

bro, sometimes I think I'd really like to meet some of the guys in here just to see what they are like irl, especially the white knights. I bet they must be the least appealing men to women. It would be so funny. especially since they would never say this stuff to someones face, only behind the anonymous safety of their computer screens.

I’m assuming you are referring to me because I was referenced as a “white knight” in this discussion. BTW, as I mentioned in another response in this thread, can we stop with the name calling? Ad hominem attacks do nothing to advance the conversation….

With regard to this invitation for coffee, please DM me and I would be happy to meet and discuss any topic you so choose, face to face. I’ve met a number of other Perb members in person and have enjoyed their company; so much so that we’ve gone on outings together.

And regarding being appealing or not appealing, that is not for me to judge - only each individual person can say. What I can say, is that I’ve met with more than one provider socially outside of work, dated a few briefly, and generally get along with them in the bedroom and outside of it.

 

[Bobert1969]

Agreed. It got boring real fast. I’m BORED

I think this is going exactly the way you expected it to, because you were already bored, so you created something fun to watch, “adults” turning into children. And I applaud you for it

 

[blakealridge]

I think this is going exactly the way you expected it to, because you were already bored, so you created something fun to watch, “adults” turning into children. And I applaud you for it

Shhhhh don’t reveal my secrets.
*sits over here with covid eating popcorn and laughing and laughing and crying and crying*

 

[LuxyLuxxx]

Statistically:
-The majority of homeless are men
-Men are 10x times more likely to be victims of violent crime
-Men statistically make up the majority of victims of domestic violence (fun fact: lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence)
-Men receive harsher punishments than woman for the same crimes
-Men are significantly more likely to die on the job
-Men must sign up for the draft

-Woman make up the majority of university students
-Woman get affirmative action in both university and in the workplace

Are you suggesting that men face more oppression than women? You didn't provide any specifics.

(I don't feel like I am being oppressed or victimized in any way btw)

I believe that men and women both face different issues that impact each of them.

What I have noticed is that.
It's consistently the same three individuals who act as white knights in discussions like this @VinVan @westwoody @carvesg . And theres a few others as well.
It's intriguing, though, because if you genuinely consider yourselves such advocates for women and a safe presence for them, nice guys, who are pleasant to be around, one might question why you would compensate for woman's companionship?
I've actually asked you guys this in other threads and discussions, I have posed this query to you all, but you consistently remain silent and disregard the question. Makes me wonder.

VitaminD, I’d love to have a sit down with you face to face.
Your dedication to devaluing women, SWs and those who advocate for us is eye opening. As someone said previously the stone cold reality can differ from statistics you found on google. And correlation doesn’t equal causation, do you believe the points you made are due to “male oppression”?
In this one thread, you’ve passive aggressively insulted a woman’s age and appearance (which btw sit that one out, she gets paid for sex, you pay for sex) and disregarded the feminist movement as a whole.
As mentioned I’d LOVE to chat. Coffees even on me 💸 you seem to have experiences that are less than ideal and I’d love to offer a different perspective.

 

[g eazy]

Vitamin D, I’m happy to have this discussion with you with the request that you stop with the name calling. I’m not “white knighting” anyone. I’m just offering my opinion, which on many points is the same as Charlee’s. And I would humbly suggest she doesn’t require a “knight” to defend her honor. Honesty, the term is just used as an insult to try and shut someone down.

There's a broader context to thwhole this thread and the previous ones about patriarchy (capitalism, neo-liberalism) or whatever handle you wish to assign to it.

I do not disagree with you about the following (although I would like to see your source for men being greater victims of domestic violence):


-The majority of homeless are men
-Men are 10x times more likely to be victims of violent crime
-Men statistically make up the majority of victims of domestic violence (fun fact: lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence)
-Men receive harsher punishments than woman for the same crimes
-Men are significantly more likely to die on the job
-Men must sign up for the draft

What I would ask you is:

1. What is the reason the majority of homeless are men?
2. Who is perpetrating the 10x violence against men? Women or other men?
3. What is the reason men get harsher sentences?
4. Why are men more likely to die on the job?
5. Who is compelling men to sign up for the draft? Women?

I think the answer to all of these questions is that it is baked into the system. Capitalism, if you will. It is by its nature an economic model that is predicated on winners and losers. In what other place, except in the epicentre of Capitalism, would you have 40 million uninsured (health) arguing against their own self interest to to sustain a system that enfeebles them?

And I’m curious about the reason you would question why I pay for sex? I suspect it’s for the same reasons you do and completely immaterial to the conversation.

you've way too much patience. just let them call you a white knight and let it be - it makes them feel good about themselves. i just consider it charity to society.

plus they can bring immaterial arguments to the table, whether it's charlee, you paying for sex, having no friends, men being victims... when we do we get to blame feminism on the Dems?

 

[Moan For Me]

Agreed. It got boring real fast. I’m BORED

i know. Once logic and rationale entered the discussion. Fuck this i’m out. A topic you brought up. Typical. 🤣

 

[westwoody]

Statistical breakdown of victims of violence by gender, division is nowhere near ten times over the other.

 

[westwoody]

Stats Can data for persons accused of murder, by gender. Men are consistently about six times as likely to be accused of murder.

 

[blakealridge]

Stats Can data for persons accused of murder, by gender. Men are consistently about six times as likely to be accused of murder.

Statistical breakdown of victims of violence by gender, division is nowhere near ten times over the other.

Okay so what this shows is that both men and women are suffering at the hands of violent men 🤔 shocking no one 😂 thank you

 

[blakealridge]

I’m assuming you are referring to me because I was referenced as a “white knight” in this discussion. BTW, as I mentioned in another response in this thread, can we stop with the name calling? Ad hominem attacks do nothing to advance the conversation….

With regard to this invitation for coffee, please DM me and I would be happy to meet and discuss any topic you so choose, face to face. I’ve met a number of other Perb members in person and have enjoyed their company; so much so that we’ve gone on outings together.

And regarding being appealing or not appealing, that is not for me to judge - only each individual person can say. What I can say, is that I’ve met with more than one provider socially outside of work, dated a few briefly, and generally get along with them in the bedroom and outside of it.

Can I sit at the next table and watch two guys from perb talk about women’s rights while I eat a croissant?

 

[blakealridge]

Just fyi guys I don’t discriminate: I’ll see any colour knight for a session 🤪

 

[carvesg]

L

Statistically:
-The majority of homeless are men
-Men are 10x times more likely to be victims of violent crime
-Men statistically make up the majority of victims of domestic violence (fun fact: lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence)
-Men receive harsher punishments than woman for the same crimes
-Men are significantly more likely to die on the job
-Men must sign up for the draft

-Woman make up the majority of university students
-Woman get affirmative action in both university and in the workplace

Are you suggesting that men face more oppression than women? You didn't provide any specifics.

(I don't feel like I am being oppressed or victimized in any way btw)

I believe that men and women both face different issues that impact each of them.

What I have noticed is that.
It's consistently the same three individuals who act as white knights in discussions like this @VinVan @westwoody @carvesg . And theres a few others as well.
It's intriguing, though, because if you genuinely consider yourselves such advocates for women and a safe presence for them, nice guys, who are pleasant to be around, one might question why you would compensate for woman's companionship?
I've actually asked you guys this in other threads and discussions, I have posed this query to you all, but you consistently remain silent and disregard the question. Makes me wonder.

All good points about the stats men vs women.

I would not consider them a rebuttal of the study but more about what the average man is facing in some part of our lives .


As for some of us being white Knights , thank you as I started defending girl classmates in kindergarten from boys trying to be mean or physical toward them and I did so for years . Looks like I still do ....and not ashamed of it.

 

[Americanboy]

Have you guys solved sexism yet?

I believe that many of the comments on this issue fail to distinguish between the "equality for men and woman" feminism, and the "men are inherently problematic/men are bad" radical feminism. I think that most people would support the idea of equality between men and women in the first definition. The second definition, on the other hand, is similar to the extreme beliefs held by incels.

Men have problems that mainly impact them and they should be addressed, and women also have issues that mostly affect them and should be addressed as well. The whole oppression olympics and "who has it worse" thing is kind of dumb and doesnt really solve anything for either gender.

Everyone in here is cherry picking arguments to respond to.

In the debate between white knights and the other side, a key point is that a woman in the conversation has also used name calling and insults, but she is not facing the same consequences as the men who did the same. This is not fair treatment, definitely not "equality".From what I've seen on twitter and here, the woman in question doesn't appear to be a nice person and has done things that would be considered abhorrent if a man did them to a woman, and rightfully so.

I also believe there's a significant difference in opinions between different age groups and a generation gap in this conversation. im in my 20s, many guys, like myself, have noticed a lot of support and opportunities for women through affirmative action initiatives. It doesnt affect me, im a hard worker regardless. but brushing that off and pretending it doesnt exist is disingenuous.

I would also like to mention that most of the women I know personally enjoy being women and see it as a great thing with many advantages. They feel that being a woman in 2024 is easier than being a man, based on what I've heard from them.

Let's face it, throughout history, almost everyone has faced oppression. Being a peasant, slave, or being sent to war to be slaughtered on mass was not a pleasant experience, regardless of gender.

So theres my comment which will most likely be ignored or cherry picked by anyone who disagrees with me

 

[Americanboy]

As for some of us being white Knights , thank you as I started defending girl classmates in kindergarten from boys trying to be mean or physical therapy toward them and I so for years . Looks like I still do ....and not ashamed of it.

No one has an issue when a guy white knights for woman he knows or in person, especially women, when they face oppression or aggression.

It's more about white knighting to gain favour from a stranger or someone you only know through paying them, for defending against internet comments that you find offensive. It's seen as a strange sexual strategy that never works and a tactic to gain attention and is often viewed as disingenuous and creepy.

 

[Americanboy]

Many of you need woman in your life whom you care about and don't have to pay to spend time with. and this is directed towards the "misogynists" and the white knights.

the loneliness in here is palpable , it's evident that alot of you are so deeply involved in purchasing sex, that you are out of touch with the real world and real human connection. alot of you definitely lack genuine, unpaid interactions with both men and women.

Some of you have been on this site for 10-20 years, that's not a flex, it's actually quite depressing and sad.

Go outside, interact with humans please.

this.