Massage Adagio

2024 Canadian Political Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

appleomac

Active member
Aug 9, 2010
707
189
43
When did i advocate for copious amounts of never ending deficits? Thats just hyperbolic mouth frothing from you again.

Dont want to repeat the past? Dont elect conservatives with the same old playbook , because there are no new policies there only classist authoritarianism. Maybe the Lemon party is the way to go.
You missed the point. That point being, debt to GDP, presenting debt in that manner is an erroneous measure to justify for more debt. But you don't understand why. It's arbitrary, which you fail to see, as demonstrated by your constant comparisons to other nations. If you have two maxed out credit cards (a bad situation) and you say "but my neighbour has 3 maxed out credit cards" - you are justifying your bad situation because some else's is worse. Bad is bad and worse is worse. That someone else is worse off then you, does not change the fact that you are in bad situation. In other words, you have arbitrarily decided that 3 maxed out credit cards is the barometer of bad. Just like you parroting off Liberal talking points ("but Mr. Speaker, Canada has one of the lowest net debt to GDP ratios in the G7" or whatever the Finance Minster says). So no, it is not hyperbolic, because this government has taken out copious amounts of debt and all you can say to justify that is that other countries are "worse" than us. Again, other people's/country's situation does not change ours.

What same playbook, deficits? Sure Conservative and Liberals have both contributed to the level of national debt. In the not so distant past, a reasonable person could say the Libs did alot to deal with Canada's national debt. Chretien and Martin, their combined time as PM's - they had a mere $30ish billion in total deficit in their combined 12 years in office. Now, if you want to compare that to Harper (and his $120 billion in total deficit in 9 years). Yes, you can say the Chretien/Martin fiscal record is MUCH better than Harper. However, JT is no Chretien or Martin on the fiscal file. Ergo, rightly or wrongly (and I would say rightly), JT gets compared to his predecessor, and that would be Harper. Again, $120 billion in total deficit for Harper in 9 years vs over $500 billion for JT in 9 years. If you want to compare JT to Chretien and Martin on the fiscal record, that makes JT look even worse. Ergo, why some people like to (or try to) compare JT to Mulroney. I think that's foolish, Mulroney was 40 years ago and dead. But if that's what people want to do, fair enough. Mulroney had just under $300 billion in total deficit in his 9 years in office and JT, again, is at over $500 billion. You can say all you want that Harper or Mulroney were not as good on the fiscal side as Chretien and Martin. However, and this should be obvious - Canadians' choice for PM will not include a Chretien or Martin will it? JT does not get to claim Chretien and Martin's record of fiscal stewardship. JT has to live, or die, by his own fiscal record. And that fiscal record is - that JT is the single biggest deficit spending PM in the history of Canadian Confederation. Yes, a spot that JT took over from a conservative (i.e. Mulroney). But, Mulroney and his record is NOT on the ballot. Mulroney had is reckoning with the Canadian public, or at least his now non-existent political party did. Harper had his reckoning with the Canadian public. Do you see a trend here? All politicians will have their reckoning with the Canadian public - that is how this thing called democracy works. You are somehow saying that JT should not have his reckoning beause, what? Trump? Sure, the LIbs are going to pull that card. Because of Ford or Moe or Smith - sure, the Libs are going to try that card. Because of racism, Islamaphobia transphobia, etc, sure the Libs are going to try that card. It's all desperation. Harper got desparate too in 2015 - cultural barbaric practices hot-line (dumb attempt at a wedge issue), the niqab "issue" (dumb attempt at wedge a issue). Voters want change, they get change. And JT will trot out all his usual (and stupid) wedge issues as well. And if you think after 3 terms and 10 years in office that somehow wedge issues work when people want change. They don't - the public sees it for what it is, just like they did with Harper - desperation. There's an old saying, father time is undefeated. In modern politics in Canada, father time comes calling for incumbents around the 10 year mark.
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
You missed the point. That point being, debt to GDP, presenting debt in that manner is an erroneous measure to justify for more debt. But you don't understand why. It's arbitrary, which you fail to see, as demonstrated by your constant comparisons to other nations. If you have two maxed out credit cards (a bad situation) and you say "but my neighbour has 3 maxed out credit cards" - you are justifying your bad situation because some else's is worse. Bad is bad and worse is worse. That someone else is worse off then you, does not change the fact that you are in bad situation. In other words, you have arbitrarily decided that 3 maxed out credit cards is the barometer of bad. Just like you parroting off Liberal talking points ("but Mr. Speaker, Canada has one of the lowest net debt to GDP ratios in the G7" or whatever the Finance Minster says). So no, it is not hyperbolic, because this government has taken out copious amounts of debt and all you can say to justify that is that other countries are "worse" than us. Again, other people's/country's situation does not change ours.

What same playbook, deficits? Sure Conservative and Liberals have both contributed to the level of national debt. In the not so distant past, a reasonable person could say the Libs did alot to deal with Canada's national debt. Chretien and Martin, their combined time as PM's - they had a mere $30ish billion in total deficit in their combined 12 years in office. Now, if you want to compare that to Harper (and his $120 billion in total deficit in 9 years). Yes, you can say the Chretien/Martin fiscal record is MUCH better than Harper. However, JT is no Chretien or Martin on the fiscal file. Ergo, rightly or wrongly (and I would say rightly), JT gets compared to his predecessor, and that would be Harper. Again, $120 billion in total deficit for Harper in 9 years vs over $500 billion for JT in 9 years. If you want to compare JT to Chretien and Martin on the fiscal record, that makes JT look even worse. Ergo, why some people like to (or try to) compare JT to Mulroney. I think that's foolish, Mulroney was 40 years ago and dead. But if that's what people want to do, fair enough. Mulroney had just under $300 billion in total deficit in his 9 years in office and JT, again, is at over $500 billion. You can say all you want that Harper or Mulroney were not as good on the fiscal side as Chretien and Martin. However, and this should be obvious - Canadians' choice for PM will not include a Chretien or Martin will it? JT does not get to claim Chretien and Martin's record of fiscal stewardship. JT has to live, or die, by his own fiscal record. And that fiscal record is - that JT is the single biggest deficit spending PM in the history of Canadian Confederation. Yes, a spot that JT took over from a conservative (i.e. Mulroney). But, Mulroney and his record is NOT on the ballot. Mulroney had is reckoning with the Canadian public, or at least his now non-existent political party did. Harper had his reckoning with the Canadian public. Do you see a trend here? All politicians will have their reckoning with the Canadian public - that is how this thing called democracy works. You are somehow saying that JT should not have his reckoning beause, what? Trump? Sure, the LIbs are going to pull that card. Because of Ford or Moe or Smith - sure, the Libs are going to try that card. Because of racism, Islamaphobia transphobia, etc, sure the Libs are going to try that card. It's all desperation. Harper got desparate too in 2015 - cultural barbaric practices hot-line (dumb attempt at a wedge issue), the niqab "issue" (dumb attempt at wedge a issue). Voters want change, they get change. And JT will trot out all his usual (and stupid) wedge issues as well. And if you think after 3 terms and 10 years in office that somehow wedge issues work when people want change. They don't - the public sees it for what it is, just like they did with Harper - desperation. There's an old saying, father time is undefeated. In modern politics in Canada, father time comes calling for incumbents around the 10 year mark.
Im shocked..no name calling in this one. Good.

For the maxed out credit card analogy, its not really the correct analog. Canada prints its own money , though that would devalue over time if its done too muc, bananna republic, etc.. The point being that the contrast to a houshold is not apt.

If Canada went its own course and paid down its debts while the Us and other G7 nations were on a deficit driven spending spree, what would be the outcome? What would our growth and productivity look like in relative terms? It doesnt justify going crazy with the wallet, but what other countries are doing very much has effects and we're somewhat hemmed in by that economically.

The reason Big C and Mr. M 'did so well' was the transfer of EI to general revenue. Take that away and its not quite as pretty a picture of them.

Yes I agree, that in most democracies we vote out what we hate, not what we like. Layton was an exception but he wasnt around very long.
 

appleomac

Active member
Aug 9, 2010
707
189
43
For the maxed out credit card analogy, its not really the correct analog. Canada prints its own money , though that would devalue over time if its done too muc, bananna republic, etc.. The point being that the contrast to a houshold is not apt.
You missed the point yet again. The point of the analogy was ignoring ones own situation to highlight someone else's situation - thereby distorting the reality of your situation. Saying "our net debt to GDP ratio is lower that country X". That is focusing on someone else so that you don't have to focus on yourself. It's smoke and mirrors by the government - and you bought into it hook, line and sinker. Put another way, this Lib government is saying you are dumb - because you can't see that they are focusing your attention on "this" or "that" country's net debt to gdp ratio so they don't have to address this country's situation when it comes to staggering amounts of deficits and debt. And you are proving them right, by parroting off like a trained little lap dog, their smoke and mirrors talking points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iliketravel

Drjohn

Banned
Dec 26, 2020
680
398
63
Im shocked..no name calling in this one. Good.

For the maxed out credit card analogy, its not really the correct analog. Canada prints its own money , though that would devalue over time if its done too muc, bananna republic, etc.. The point being that the contrast to a houshold is not apt.

If Canada went its own course and paid down its debts while the Us and other G7 nations were on a deficit driven spending spree, what would be the outcome? What would our growth and productivity look like in relative terms? It doesnt justify going crazy with the wallet, but what other countries are doing very much has effects and we're somewhat hemmed in by that economically.

The reason Big C and Mr. M 'did so well' was the transfer of EI to general revenue. Take that away and its not quite as pretty a picture of them.

Yes I agree, that in most democracies we vote out what we hate, not what we like. Layton was an exception but he wasnt around very long.
Yes, everyone "loved" Jack Layton.

His accomplishments and contributions to Canada...

He did help give us one thing.

Olivia Chow.

The gift that keeps on giving.

Lol
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
Yes, everyone "loved" Jack Layton.

His accomplishments and contributions to Canada...

He did help give us one thing.

Olivia Chow.

The gift that keeps on giving.

Lol
I was actually talking about how the Ndp took Quebec in that cycle.....thats the only populat candidate upset ive seen in my time like that.

Chow was herself well before Layton.
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
You missed the point yet again. The point of the analogy was ignoring ones own situation to highlight someone else's situation - thereby distorting the reality of your situation. Saying "our net debt to GDP ratio is lower that country X". That is focusing on someone else so that you don't have to focus on yourself. It's smoke and mirrors by the government - and you bought into it hook, line and sinker. Put another way, this Lib government is saying you are dumb - because you can't see that they are focusing your attention on "this" or "that" country's net debt to gdp ratio so they don't have to address this country's situation when it comes to staggering amounts of deficits and debt. And you are proving them right, by parroting off like a trained little lap dog, their smoke and mirrors talking points.
Thats funny, you sure had something to say when it came to relative productivity you little psychophantic Harper/Mt. Dressup water bearin hyporcrite.

You people never want to pay off debt when the fire is roaring, only when it gets cold so thay you can hurt the maximum number of poors it seems like. Its like you think you can disguise sadism as stoicism and we're going to buy it.

If you actually new how to read you'd see that i dont vote JT, i dont advocate for endless deficit, and i dont buy into talking points like the ones you've been peddling here for ages abouy how the sky is falling.

Your 'solutions' are to preserve wealth for the already wealthy, because they can never have enough toys or people to shit on so they feel important. Nothing to do with inovation or succesful entrepenureship, everything to do with gaming the systems and out-huckstering and outscamming everyone. Your system is broken, a slow transfer of wealth to the wealthiest obfuscated behind interest rates and time-value series. Why should it continue?
 

appleomac

Active member
Aug 9, 2010
707
189
43
Thats funny, you sure had something to say when it came to relative productivity you little psychophantic Harper/Mt. Dressup water bearin hyporcrite.

You people never want to pay off debt when the fire is roaring, only when it gets cold so thay you can hurt the maximum number of poors it seems like. Its like you think you can disguise sadism as stoicism and we're going to buy it.
Chretien/Martin and Harper paid down some debt - when they had a surplus to be able to do so. That's what you don't understand, do you. You ignore (or are otherwise ignorant to the fact) that previous PM's did, when they achieved surpluses paid down some debt. So enough with your, endless incorrect revisionist history about "you people never want to pay off debt...". Step one is balancing the budget (i.e. stop borrowing because you spend more than you bring in). Step two would be, hopefully, trying to achieve a surplus so that there are excess funds available to pay some debt down. Unfortunately, this PM can't even develop a roadmap to step one. You can blame "you people" (I'm guessing Harper) that he had his deficits (which he did). But again, he started with 2 years of decent surpluses, paid down some debt and then went into deficit. So, what did he do? He went back to trying to accomplish step one - and he got there. Again, this current government has shown zero ability/desire/inclination to even develop a plan to get to step one - other than the erroneous notion/belief/hope that "budgets balance themselves."


Your 'solutions' are to preserve wealth for the already wealthy, because they can never have enough toys or people to shit on so they feel important. Nothing to do with inovation or succesful entrepenureship, everything to do with gaming the systems and out-huckstering and outscamming everyone. Your system is broken, a slow transfer of wealth to the wealthiest obfuscated behind interest rates and time-value series. Why should it continue?
This is always the funniest argument that tax and spenders like you present. That somehow, all this deficit spending and record deficits is about making people wealthy. Burdening future generations with debt is not a roadmap to becoming "wealthy." At some point (and it's happened in the not see distant past) government expenditures will go down and/or taxes will go up. Either of those two burdens on future generations will NOT make those future generations better off. Record borrowing and spending is not a wealth transfer - it's transfering a burden to be shouldered by younger generations (your kids, nieces, nephews, grand kids, whatever). You want short term gain for long term pain - but that's usually not the best way to go about things, if you truly care about future generations of the down-trodden.
 

Drjohn

Banned
Dec 26, 2020
680
398
63
I was actually talking about how the Ndp took Quebec in that cycle.....thats the only populat candidate upset ive seen in my time like that.

Chow was herself well before Layton.
Politicians are supposed to serve the public.

People like Chow and Layton live off the public.

They are leeches.

Let's not forget that they were caught living in subsidized housing.

Read their bios.

He was an "Acedemic" and she was an "Artist"

Typical of many high level socialists, neither of them has ever done an honest days work.

They know what's best for you.

They make a very good living in an effort to redistribute your "wealth".

They produce nothing.

When they're gone, you will not notice their absence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgg and iliketravel

oldshark

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2019
1,597
3,045
113
I was actually talking about how the Ndp took Quebec in that cycle.....thats the only populat candidate upset ive seen in my time like that.

Chow was herself well before Layton.
I used to live in Chow's riding when I lived back East. Never liked her. Didn't like Layton either. Both of them were politicians more than anything else. For the same reason, I don't like all the professional political leaders on the Tory side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgg

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
Chretien/Martin and Harper paid down some debt - when they had a surplus to be able to do so. That's what you don't understand, do you. You ignore (or are otherwise ignorant to the fact) that previous PM's did, when they achieved surpluses paid down some debt. So enough with your, endless incorrect revisionist history about "you people never want to pay off debt...". Step one is balancing the budget (i.e. stop borrowing because you spend more than you bring in). Step two would be, hopefully, trying to achieve a surplus so that there are excess funds available to pay some debt down. Unfortunately, this PM can't even develop a roadmap to step one. You can blame "you people" (I'm guessing Harper) that he had his deficits (which he did). But again, he started with 2 years of decent surpluses, paid down some debt and then went into deficit. So, what did he do?
Politicians are supposed to serve the public.

People like Chow and Layton live off the public.

They are leeches.

Let's not forget that they were caught living in subsidized housing.

Read their bios.

He was an "Acedemic" and she was an "Artist"

Typical of many high level socialists, neither of them has ever done an honest days work.

They know what's best for you.

They make a very good living in an effort to redistribute your "wealth".

They produce nothing.

When they're gone, you will not notice their absence.
Chow sucks. You should run for office and do the job for free, id vote for ya.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iliketravel

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
I used to live in Chow's riding when I lived back East. Never liked her. Didn't like Layton either. Both of them were politicians more than anything else. For the same reason, I don't like all the professional political leaders on the Tory side.
Yes, your hatred must run deep to have simmered for so long.
 

Drjohn

Banned
Dec 26, 2020
680
398
63
Yes, your hatred must run deep to have simmered for so long.
Chow is a first class grifter.

If she wasn't enabled by suckers like yourself, she would have to get a real job.

She's had her snout in the trough for so long, I can't imagine her "working"

It would be an incredible shock to her system.

I thought your defense of her would at least include a long list of her accomplishments.

Too much to ask for?
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
Chow is a first class grifter.

If she wasn't enabled by suckers like yourself, she would have to get a real job.

She's had her snout in the trough for so long, I can't imagine her "working"

It would be an incredible shock to her system.

I thought your defense of her would at least include a long list of her accomplishments.

, so Too much to ask for?
I actually know very little about her. I think you're maybe trying to pull a Hillary, that i should like or despise her based on her husband?
 

Drjohn

Banned
Dec 26, 2020
680
398
63
I actually know very little about her. I think you're maybe trying to pull a Hillary, that i should like or despise her based on her husband?
Do you read the posts before you respond to them?

Feel free to set me straight on the illustrious Ms. Chow.

How's that list of her accomplishments coming along?
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
1,000
113
Vancouver
Do you read the posts before you respond to them?

Feel free to set me straight on the illustrious Ms. Chow.

How's that list of her accomplishments coming along?
Shes better than Ford? Not that its any kind of accomplishment really, with the bar so low.
 

Drjohn

Banned
Dec 26, 2020
680
398
63
Shes better than Ford? Not that its any kind of accomplishment really, with the bar so low.
She's not better than Ford and even if she was, that wouldn't be an accomplishment.

This was fun but now I'm just bored by you.

Good luck.
 

oldshark

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2019
1,597
3,045
113
Yes, your hatred must run deep to have simmered for so long.
Look, if you had ever met her you probably wouldn't like her. I have met many politicians over the years. Some that I thought that I would like, I despised. I only met her because she was the MP for my riding and I wasn't impressed. I don't hate the woman, I am just glad that she is not the mayor of my town.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Vancouver Escorts