Stop the Ukrainian Meatgrinder?

licks2nite

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Stop the Ukrainian Meatgrinder?
The only practicable way to avoid another near-one million dead and wounded would be a settlement, however unpopular.
By Victor Davis Hanson

June 27, 2024
Nearly eleven months ago, in August 2023, the New York Times reported that U.S. officials had estimated that some 500,000 Russians and Ukrainians had been killed, wounded, or missing in the then 18-month Ukrainian War.
Both Russia and Ukraine underreport their losses. Hundreds of thousands of additional casualties have followed in the 28 months of fighting.
In the West, the mere mention of a negotiated settlement is considered a dangerous appeasement of Russia’s flagrant aggression. In Russia, anything short of victory would be seen as synonymous with the collapse of the Putin regime.

Yet as the war nears two and a half years this summer, some facts are no longer much in dispute.
Controversy still arises over the circumstances of the 2014 overthrow of Ukraine’s pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych.
Russia charges that the West engineered the “Revolution of Dignity”—an effort to westernize the former Soviet republic, to expand the borders of Europe right to the doorstep of Russia, and eventually to fully arm Ukraine as a member of NATO.
Westerners counter that most Ukrainians wished to be part of Europe and independent from Russian bullying—and they had a perfect right to ask to join either NATO or the EU or both despite anticipated escalating tensions.

After the heroic Ukrainian defeat of the 2022 Russian bid to take Kyiv, there have been few significant territorial gains by either side.
Like the seesaw bloodbath on the Western Front of World War I, neither side has developed the momentum to force the other to negotiate or grant concessions.
As nuclear Russian threats against Europe mount, NATO is seeking to regain deterrence capabilities by boosting defense budgets, incorporating robust frontline nations Sweden and Finland, and uniting over shared concerns about Russian aggression.

Many in the U.S. cheer on the conflict as a necessary proxy war to check Russian aggression and bolster NATO’s resistance.
But unlike third-party wars during the Cold War, now the Western client, Ukraine, is fighting directly against the chief antagonist of European NATO members.

Arming a proxy in a war waged against the homeland of a nuclear adversary is a new and dangerous phenomenon.
The West counts on supplying Ukraine with more and better weapons than a richer, larger, and more populous Russia.
But Ukraine’s problem is not so much weapons as manpower. Nearly a fourth of Ukraine’s population has fled the country.
Ukraine may have suffered some 300,000 causalities. The average age of its soldiers is over 40 years. It already lacks sufficient forces to replay the failed 2023 counter-offensive. The Russian plan of attrition is to wear down and bleed out the Ukrainian people.
In a geostrategic sense, the new alignment of Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea is starting to gain opportunistic support from illiberal Middle East regimes, Turkey, and the Islamic world in general.

https://amgreatness.com/2024/06/27/stop-the-ukrainian-meatgrinder/
 

westwoody

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No settlement.
Surrendering to Russia means slavery and murder.
Easy for me to tell you if your wife is being raped she should just lie there and you should nit interfere because you will make things worse.
Don’t tell people fighting for their existence to give up.

Russia politician Medvedev said on RTV they will only stop at Portugal. Others say they should take the Baltics back - but the Baltics were never Russian.
Russia is claiming CANADIAN territory in our arctic. I guess you are fine with that.
Russia will not stop unless someone stops them.
Right now Ukraine is stopping Russia and Putin from going back to 1950s and the Warsaw Pact empire of the USSR.
 
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80watts

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One of the things I did during covid, was to watch utube channel on superyachts. Most of these superyachts were owned by billionaires from Russia. They were taking the wealth Russia and partying it up in Europe. They got their wealth from supporting Putin, and ripping off the Russian inhabitants of their rightful resources that should support the populace of Russia; hence their name oligarchs....

Putin's regime is criminal in nature, because that is how he got his start after the fall of the Soviet Union. See netflix documentary on him.

For Putin its win or die. So he is going to kill anyone that stands in his way.... Putin rules in Russia through fear.

Also take a look at any of the oligarchs that did not support his war in Ukraine (spoke out publicly), they are either in jail or dead. That is what happening to his fellow Russians, let alone a Ukrainian or another European.

In 1938/9 the European Leaders appeased Hitler over Czechoslovakia, see how well that turned out for the rest of Europe. The immediate affects of German taking over Czechoslovakia, was the persecution of the Jewish people in Czechoslovakia.

As much as I would like to see the conflict end (and the end of killing on both sides), what will the future look like if we don't fight for what we believe in. Freedom, democracy and the right to speak our minds. Freedom requires sacrifice. It is very obvious that the writer of the article has his head shoved up his own ass, because he will not sacrifice himself for his owns beliefs and he hides behind the sacrifice of many in the US military that have won that freedom for him. This person is a Trump supporter by his articles and Trump is buddy buddy with Putin....

So as with anything think, and do some reasoning about why this guy wants a ceasefire that advantages Putin.
 
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overdone

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The only practicable way to avoid another near-one million dead and wounded would be a settlement, however unpopular.

useful idiots like this Victor Davis should just shut up


Britain should have give France to the Nazis?

Belgium? all the other countries?

it's bad enough the idiot Americans gave the USSR what they did instead of destroying them too

it's morons like this that cause this to continue to repeat in history





the only practicable way is

for NATO to quit lying about what it is, why it exists, why it's partly responsible for Ukraine, who made them give up their nukes?

who sat back as Putin took Crimea? Donbas?

to act properly

either give Ukraine all the weapons they need, means to do the job properly

or go in and do it themselves

2 weeks, maybe a month, Putin would be running home

"self defence"

bullshit

how many people, citizens of Nato has Putin killed?

airline over Ukraine

how many people has Putin killed, poisoned on Nato soil?

that's self defence?

Nato is trying Ukraines hands behind it's back and telling it is with them 100%

telling them, beat Putin, with a foam bat

we have cowards, children for leaders, Putin knows he can't use Nukes

Russia's army is a joke, the only thing they have is Nukes, which would assure they're own destruction

Putin isn't that idealistic to go down with the ship



just look at us, Canada, we don't even have ammo, basic ammo

let alone ships/planes/tanks/subs/men/women

the Ukrainians are willing to defend themselves and our cowards

aren't even willing to give them, after 2 yrs what they really need

cause they're more concerned, like that asshole Davis, about themselves
 

licks2nite

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Meanwhile, Ukraine turns into a military training ground for both sides on the hope things don't go nuclear. The best, the brightest, the healthiest, the nation builders face death and destruction. For the West it's been "freedom" to oust regimes that don't align with the banking cartel. Afghanistan, Libya, Serbia. For Russia it's been about having its own business figures living high on the hog instead of western business figures.

Over a year prewar, the great Russian bear smelt blood of 14,000 killed in eastern Ukraine plus wounded and wanted its share. I don't want any Canadians on the ground in Ukraine. Or in the air either. I don't want Canadians buying any offshore or American manufactured military equipment to give either.
 
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Attempting to placate a dictator by giving him part of what he wants is a failed strategy that never works. Any peace that comes from giving up Ukrainian territory to Putin is a temporary one, while he licks his wounds and rebuilds his military. When someone tells you who they are, pay attention. His kills those who oppose him, and he has reneged on every promise he's made to stop. This only ends with regime change in Russia, or if the Ukrainians push them right back to the Russian borders and keep them there.
 

uncleg

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One of the things I did during covid, was to watch utube channel on superyachts. Most of these superyachts were owned by billionaires from Russia. They were taking the wealth Russia and partying it up in Europe. They got their wealth from supporting Putin, and ripping off the Russian inhabitants of their rightful resources that should support the populace of Russia; hence their name oligarchs....



So as with anything think, and do some reasoning about why this guy wants a ceasefire that advantages Putin.
So he can get one of the oligarchs yachts to replace the Trump Princess he lost when his casinos went bankrupt..
 

thevalleydude

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Attempting to placate a dictator by giving him part of what he wants is a failed strategy that never works. Any peace that comes from giving up Ukrainian territory to Putin is a temporary one, while he licks his wounds and rebuilds his military. When someone tells you who they are, pay attention. His kills those who oppose him, and he has reneged on every promise he's made to stop. This only ends with regime change in Russia, or if the Ukrainians push them right back to the Russian borders and keep them there.
Which will not happen without World War 3. Are you of draft age? You want to go to the meatgrinder? You have kids? You want them to go? The US is looking at reinstituting the draft. We wouldnt be far behind.

Sorry dude the Domino theory died in Vietnam. Russia has proven it does not have the military might to take on NATO and the US even if it somehow does take Ukraine and wanted to expand. Even with their war machine now ramped up they are still having trouble fighting a decimated army now populated with seniors, women and conscripts many of whom do not want to be there and who have little or no air cover.
But hey...neocons, tough guy PERB mods and the weapons industry lobby love endless wars (you probably wanted to stay in Afghanistan) and all you would be doing is keeping Ukraine from their corrupt dictator and giving it to our corrupt dictator.

Now there is a rumor going around that Zelenskyys wife has bought a 4.8 million dollar euro car, a Bugatti Tourbillon and there is a frantic amount of online denial by CNN and others saying this reeks of Russian disinformation.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/europe/deepfake-video-zelensky-wife-intl-latam/index.html

Now I dont know if this is true or not but to me this has all the earmarks of Hunter Bidens Laptop and we know how that turned out in the end. All that taxpayer money we send over there doesnt seem to be making it to the front lines. Perhaps this is where its ending up. She has gone on some exorbitant shopping binges in Paris.
 
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VanCityNewb

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Which will not happen without World War 3. Are you of draft age? You want to go to the meatgrinder? You have kids? You want them to go? The US is looking at reinstituting the draft. We wouldnt be far behind.

Sorry dude the Domino theory died in Vietnam. Russia has proven it does not have the military might to take on NATO and the US even if it somehow does take Ukraine and wanted to expand. Even with their war machine now ramped up they are still having trouble fighting a decimated army now populated with seniors, women and conscripts many of whom do not want to be there and who have little or no air cover.
But hey...neocons, tough guy PERB mods and the weapons industry lobby love endless wars (you probably wanted to stay in Afghanistan) and all you would be doing is keeping Ukraine from their corrupt dictator and giving it to our corrupt dictator.

Now there is a rumor going around that Zelenskyys wife has bought a 4.8 million dollar euro car, a Bugatti Tourbillon and there is a frantic amount of online denial by CNN and others saying this reeks of Russian disinformation.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/europe/deepfake-video-zelensky-wife-intl-latam/index.html

Now I dont know if this is true or not but to me this has all the earmarks of Hunter Bidens Laptop and we know how that turned out in the end. All that taxpayer money we send over there doesnt seem to be making it to the front lines. Perhaps this is where its ending up. She has gone on some exorbitant shopping binges in Paris.
People are still talking about Hunter Biden's laptop like it's even a thing? Wow, I thought that died out years ago. But, I guess it is an election year again.
 
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masterblaster

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I understand the situation. Their (the Soviet) supply system is inadequate to maintain them in a serious action such as I could put to them. They have chickens in the coop and cattle on the hoof — that’s their supply system. They could probably maintain themselves in the type of fighting I could give them for five days. After that it would make no difference how many million men they have, and if you wanted Moscow I could give it to you. They lived on the land coming down. There is insufficient left for them to maintain themselves going back. Let’s not give them time to build up their supplies. If we do, then . . . we have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them, but we have failed in the liberation of Europe; we have lost the war!” — Patton. Prior to his assassination by the Soviets.
 
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westwoody

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I suspect Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler did.
Stalin certainly killed more Ukrainians that Hitler did.
 

80watts

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Which will not happen without World War 3. Are you of draft age? You want to go to the meatgrinder? You have kids? You want them to go? The US is looking at reinstituting the draft. We wouldnt be far behind.

Sorry dude the Domino theory died in Vietnam. Russia has proven it does not have the military might to take on NATO and the US even if it somehow does take Ukraine and wanted to expand. Even with their war machine now ramped up they are still having trouble fighting a decimated army now populated with seniors, women and conscripts many of whom do not want to be there and who have little or no air cover.
But hey...neocons, tough guy PERB mods and the weapons industry lobby love endless wars (you probably wanted to stay in Afghanistan) and all you would be doing is keeping Ukraine from their corrupt dictator and giving it to our corrupt dictator.

Now there is a rumor going around that Zelenskyys wife has bought a 4.8 million dollar euro car, a Bugatti Tourbillon and there is a frantic amount of online denial by CNN and others saying this reeks of Russian disinformation.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/europe/deepfake-video-zelensky-wife-intl-latam/index.html

Now I dont know if this is true or not but to me this has all the earmarks of Hunter Bidens Laptop and we know how that turned out in the end. All that taxpayer money we send over there doesnt seem to be making it to the front lines. Perhaps this is where its ending up. She has gone on some exorbitant shopping binges in Paris.
Canada is not that welcome to the idea of a draft. In WW1 and WW2, Quebecers' saw the wars as a English crown war and didn't want to participate, even though France was invaded both times. Its a thing phenomen call "over there"....

After the initial patriotic plunge by young men at the start of WW2, by 1944, the Canadian government started to draft the population. What they did for the most part was keep the draftee at home and sent the other soldiers that were in Canada to Europe... You all need to read that biography of William Mckenzie King the PM during WW2.

I personally think that if you join up during a conflict, you might be insane (cause you are gonna get shot at). I know a patriot will sign up to fight to due their duty... but the guy who signs up to kill is another story...

Ukraine problem is that they need bodies to conduct the war. And they are running out.

So what we in Canada should do is have a volunteer brigade(s) that could go over to Ukraine. Start a fund me to support these Brigades. And we should have the political will to support any who are injured in the war who volunteer for these Brigades....
 

uncleg

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I personally think that if you join up during a conflict, you might be insane (cause you are gonna get shot at). I know a patriot will sign up to fight to due their duty... but the guy who signs up to kill is another story...
....so why don't you tell me that story...
 

80watts

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....so why don't you tell me that story...
Knew a guy who joined up in the 90s, did his 3 years, but was in Bosnia, said he was getting shot at, and that is why he got out. Come around 10 years ago, I knew a reservist who said guys were joining up to go over to Afghanistan... Put 2 and 2 together and think " why the fuck would anybody join up, if people are gonna be shooting at you".....
Times later have to think what if they are a patriot.... and not insane or bloodthirsty psychotic killers......
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...DECE91E6AD5BA6C3A18ADECE91E6AD5BA6&ajaxhist=0
 

angry anderson

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Ukraine problem is that they need bodies to conduct the war. And they are running out.

So what we in Canada should do is have a volunteer brigade(s) that could go over to Ukraine. Start a fund me to support these Brigades. And we should have the political will to support any who are injured in the war who volunteer for these Brigades....
Cannon fodder pretty much sums up the way this war has gone for Ukrainian troops.
 

westwoody

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So what we in Canada should do is have a volunteer brigade(s) that could go over to Ukraine. Start a fund me to support these Brigades. And we should have the political will to support any who are injured in the war who volunteer for these Brigades....
There is such a brigade.
The lack of knowledge about the outside world seen in this thread is surprising and disturbing.
 

thevalleydude

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I suspect Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler did.
Stalin certainly killed more Ukrainians that Hitler did.
That was because many Ukrainians fought with the Nazis during WW2 killing Russians and Jews. Like that guy we honoured in Parliament. and Chrystia Freelands journalist nazi collaborator grandfather.
 
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westwoody

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If you knew anything about Ukraine you’d understand why they fought the Russians.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”
Almost everyone from Eastern Europe hates russians, especially those who endured their brutal occupation.

I see people daily who are either from Ukraine or have family there. I have met many who still live there but came to visit.
There is a large Ukrainian diaspora in Manitoba, here is a bilingual school in Dauphin!
Meet the actual people on the ground instead following mass media bs.
 

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apl16

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Look left. Way left.
If you knew anything about Ukraine you’d understand why they fought the Russians.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”
Almost everyone from Eastern Europe hates russians, especially those who endured their brutal occupation.

I see people daily who are either from Ukraine or have family there. I have met many who still live there but came to visit.
There is a large Ukrainian diaspora in Manitoba, here is a bilingual school in Dauphin!
Meet the actual people on the ground instead following mass media bs.
And don't forget about the so called famine created by Stalin in the 1930's. I grew up in Saskatchewan and new a lot of Ukrainian families that got the hell out of there.
They see little difference between Stalin and Putin.
 
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uncleg

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Knew a guy who joined up in the 90s, did his 3 years, but was in Bosnia, said he was getting shot at, and that is why he got out. Come around 10 years ago, I knew a reservist who said guys were joining up to go over to Afghanistan... Put 2 and 2 together and think " why the fuck would anybody join up, if people are gonna be shooting at you".....
Times later have to think what if they are a patriot.... and not insane or bloodthirsty psychotic killers......
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=jack reacher 3 reasons why people join up video of&mid=C3A18ADECE91E6AD5BA6C3A18ADECE91E6AD5BA6&ajaxhist=0
Really...Jack Reacher ???? By the why I have one of those....didn't play the video so I'm sure you can figure out what I'm referring to.
 
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