Just one more interest and carbon tax hike, everything is available. And we as people---wow my tax is going to save the planet lol.
2023 Canadian Political Thread
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Whoa there pooner.
Boomer here, fiscally responsible, any debt I had was paid off as soon as I could. Hardworking and making decent money yes, but coming up with the idea of making the debt irrecoverable, nope. If any, its a smaller boomer segment than you are alluding and it includes the OG generation, the X's, the Zeds and the Millennials.
I remember as a teenager trying to understand this whole thing that Lester B Pearson was going on about debt financing etc etc. Then TrewDough Sr blew the lid off that concept and it has been the case ever since whatever party has power. And none in my family every voted for those mofos or for raising the debt.
So don't paint all us boomers with that same tarnished brush. You need to correct that.
Ya, no shit, eh lol. But don't you worry. There are enough left winged lunatics out there falling for that.
i hear ya, but... boomers are still the voting block. there aren't enough alphabet letters of voters to compete.
What do you mean by "voting block"? There are about 10-11 million boomers in Canada, that is a minority of the voting age population (of which there are something like 30 million). Do boomers vote more than "younger" people? Probably. But you can't blame that on boomers if non-boomers vote less. Saying nothing for the fact that you imply that all boomers vote as a block. Not all boomers vote the same. Just like not all men or not all women or not all Asian Canadians or not all left handed Canadians or not all brunette Canadians or not all non-boomer Canadians vote the same. I mean heck, if you want to blame boomers for everything AND you believe boomers control elections - well, I guess you can blame boomers for electing a non-boomer? Some of our most powerful elected politicians are non-boomers: like the PM or our Finance Minister. If you want to blame boomers for voting in the "wrong" people (because apparently boomers control elections), I mean, boomers generally don't even vote in boomers - the only two boomer PM's I can think of are Harper and Campbell. And Campbell barely counts as a PM. So apparently accordingly to your line of thinking, boomers control elections (which they don't) and they are also to blame for the non-boomer PM's they apparently elect all on their own (which they don't) - based on your erroneous thinking, maybe boomer's should've voted in more boomer PM's, because apparently all the non-boomer PM's have created such a mess. Here's a little thought experiment for you - do you honestly believe if there was a means to prevent boomers from voting in, let's say 2015 or 2021, that we would've had a different PM and all the issues we have would not exist? The answer would be "no", JT would still have most likely won the last three elections absent any boomers voting - and everything that has happened since would still be the case. And since you previously mentioned never ending national debt - PET was not a boomer, Mulroney was not a boomer, Chretien/Martin (they eventually paid down some debt) were not boomers - again, the only PM's that were boomers are Harper and Campbell. You can't blame Harper for "never ending national debt - and you can't blame Campbell for anything because she was PM for less than a year. I guess it begs the question, do you even have a clue as to what constitutes a boomer - or do you just think boomers are non-millenials or simply "old people"? I'm guessing, like alot of younger folk, you simply pick an arbitrary age and think anyone older than X years old is a boomer - which is actually not true. I guess boomers, to you, are low hanging fruit. Kind of like you looking at your neighbour with 3 luxury cars, you struggling with your own one non-luxury car payments and think "yah, that guy is the reason I have less, because they have so much" - and if you are prone to that type of thinking (which it sounds like you are), you would also be wrong on that front as well.
So...you mean when I started contributing to CPP at 15 and take it at 65 (getting a whopping $1,600.00/mo after 50 years of payments btw) that makes me a moocher?
I'll be working until I'm 70, not because I love my work so much, but because I can't afford to retire at 65. I can't afford to retire at 70 either. So yeah. Guess I'm a fucking mooch.
And building the infrastructure you have the luxury of using.
Go live in a third world country for a week and then see how tough you have it here.
A question I asked Friday. Where is it coming from? And here we are. Reality!! The day can't come any sooner for Trudope to be gone in my view.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/canadians...federal-government-ukraine-aid-182023007.html
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/canadians...federal-government-ukraine-aid-182023007.html
This thread isn’t going anywhere until December 31st and then we’ll start a new thread.
Tiananmen Square would like a word.
Napoleon blasted a few crowds with cannons.
The Russian Czar’s police slaughtered a crowd asking for lower bread prices.
Iran murders women for not wearing headscarves properly.
Saudi just beheaded a woman for criticising Trump’s buddy MBS online.
One issue that should be talked about is how we are going to fully fund military alliances.
In NATO we only pay1.29% of whereas 2% of GDP is required by all. Trudeau told NATO there is no way we can pay our share.
With the Five Eyes our few Frigates are all we have to offer in the Pacific theatre. Australia is committed to a Submarine program with the UK and USA. They’ve also purchased F35’s and offered their F18’s to us. The Aussie GDP is less than ours and they can contribute billions for this programme. Different priorities than ours apparently.
I don’t want to sound alarmist but if there is a 3rd War we would be up shit creek. All oceans are basically undefended very little Canadian presence. We would need assistance from the Americans and NATO should things go crazier in the future.
I know we can’t fund all these programs but it’s now more of can’t afford not to be fully prepared.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-nato-spending-definition-1.6901473
In NATO we only pay1.29% of whereas 2% of GDP is required by all. Trudeau told NATO there is no way we can pay our share.
With the Five Eyes our few Frigates are all we have to offer in the Pacific theatre. Australia is committed to a Submarine program with the UK and USA. They’ve also purchased F35’s and offered their F18’s to us. The Aussie GDP is less than ours and they can contribute billions for this programme. Different priorities than ours apparently.
I don’t want to sound alarmist but if there is a 3rd War we would be up shit creek. All oceans are basically undefended very little Canadian presence. We would need assistance from the Americans and NATO should things go crazier in the future.
I know we can’t fund all these programs but it’s now more of can’t afford not to be fully prepared.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-nato-spending-definition-1.6901473
Everyone bitches about Canada not having any military clout but nobody wants to pay for it.
Having Ukraine destroy our biggest military adversary is the biggest bargain imaginable. Russia is already laying claim to territory around the Arctic that Canada owns. Russia is constantly trying infringe on the Baltics. Russia is trying to intimidate anyone they can. Medvedev has said onRT that their special military operations should go right to Portugal.
Do not underestimate the danger Russia poses.
Having Ukraine destroy our biggest military adversary is the biggest bargain imaginable. Russia is already laying claim to territory around the Arctic that Canada owns. Russia is constantly trying infringe on the Baltics. Russia is trying to intimidate anyone they can. Medvedev has said onRT that their special military operations should go right to Portugal.
Do not underestimate the danger Russia poses.
I'll just go all-caps for the point by point, on your points:
So I will do my own pro and con list. Much more factual, because I actually pay attention and make up my own mind without leaning on any party's scripted talking points.
Here's what the Libs did manage to do that was positive:
Carbon tax, other attempts to reduce GHG emissions. Not strong enough, but unlike the Conservatives, they are not climate deniers and actually believe in the scientific facts, instead of trying to deny them. Keep the carbon tax; reduce some other taxes if you must.
Managed COVID far better than the USA, far better than the Convoy clowns in the CPC would have done. Got PPE pretty damn fast, got COVID vaccines out to Canadians faster than the US did even when we have no suppliers and they did.
If the CPC were in charge, Canada would have had 2x as many unvaccinated, and 5x as many deaths.
Got CERB relief to workers and businesses - sloppy, yes, but also designed in a few weeks not a few years. Pollievre opposed relief of any kind.
Gun control - yes, it's popular and necessary. (Not with militia clowns, but those are paranoid clowns so fuck em.)
Infrastructure upgrades (lots of them) - par for the course for many governments, but the BC government has not had too many rejections when they asked them to build stuff in BC.
Calling down the Emergencies Act upon those Convoy conspiracy fuckheads.
Raised the interest rate? (Not actually them; the BoC did that, but strangling the real estate market to curb inflation is necessary.)
Trying to make better trade and strategic connections overseas, with countries that can help contain China. (yes, it is not just the US and Aussies doing this.)
Standing up for women's right to choose. People who want to end that keep claiming that is not their intention if elected, but it is. What is happening in the US would happen here if they had their way. Fuck that - we are not Gilead Jr.
Defending public health care.
Supporting the CBC - yeah, keep it alive. The private broadcasters are a fucking joke, especially when it comes to news, most of all international news (where they just borrow US news feeds).
Managing to make certain belligerent idiot premiers look like idiots - well, that they actually do that to themselves, just trying to pick fights with Ottawa instead of doing their own job.
Here's what they did that was negative, or failed to do:
Failed to keep their promise to get rid of First-Past-The-Post voting. Never had the balls to actually go through with it, and lost support that they never got back since then. (Ironically, if they lose now, FPTP will be the thing that kills them.)
Didn't push hard enough on climate change; kept approving & even publicy funding oil & gas projects, like an apology to Albertan climate deniers was ever necessary.
Didn't push hard enough or smart enough on gun control - they knew people wanted it, they made legislation, but let the opposition lie and say hunting rifles were going to get banned, which was never the case. Explanation failure, big time.
SNC-Lavalin / Jody Wilson Raybould mess. Old news, but I mean that was definitely an own goal, right from the PMO - nobody forced them to do that one.
Going back on their "no F-35" promise because they took years dithering over the alternative. (I suppose it does count as negotiating a better deal & more proven aircraft than Harper got.)
Immigration levels too high - not a matter of where the immigrants come from, but they are just hoovering them up at a rate far beyond our capacity to absorb it. Especially the Temporary Foreign Worker expansion too, which is not being accounted for. (Even the NDP premier of BC is telling them to throttle back.)
Drug de-criminalization: Now this one is either a win or a loss as policy, depending on your opinion about it. However, I would say the Canadian public in general opposes it, so it is a political loser.
Crime: Their Achilles heel; they want to be about the Charter, the Courts, the rule of law, but the reality on the street is that the court system is a laughing stock, far too out of touch with what people consider justice.
On bail reforms they made proved wrong-headed, and they went on summer break before undoing it, angering BC's NDP premier.
On gun control, they had the right idea, but holy fuck did they bungle the roll-out while trying to tip-toe around the paranoia of the gun lobby.
Money laundering / housing affordability issue: This is where crime ties in to housing affordabililty. Basically, the laws do not even know with 100% certainty who owns companies, houses, vehicles, etc. There is no transparency on it, and that means that shady "investors" can launder massive funds in real estate, which is amplified by speculation, to drive Canadians out of their own housing market. Building more supply (condos and so on) will do nothing to ease affordability because the units are being snapped up by those who do not even live here, and have mysterious sources of income. So, even though you could tag the last government with this too, the problem has gotten worse, and their response has been weak: the laws of property ownership are too anonymous, and the police and FINTRAC simply have no teeth to investigate.
RCMP problems: Yes, they are still too much of a "good ol' boys" organization, where senior members seem to listen too often to their ... other members. Anyways, their credibility has declined I think because nobody has yet asked why a national police force is still doing ground level low-stakes policing too.
Foreign policy:
Years of Canada under the Cons convinced players like Russia, China, and India that Canada was little more than Uncle Sam's submissive fuck puppet. (If they ever come back to power with Pollievre, it will become true again.)
However, Canada's attempt to reset their global image ran into a snag - guys like Xi Jinping and Narandra Modi are basically hyper-aggressive bullying types. They give zero fucks about Canada's goodwill, and openly run spies and assassins here. Until we hit them back, they will not respect us.
So you know, I am very prone to criticize this Liberal government. But only someone who is either a deceiver or a complete fool would say that we only need to tear a government down, but not consider the nature of those who would be replacing it.
My personal feeling is that Trudeau himself has become a liability, overshadowing his government's actual accomplishments or policies. The Libs definitely need to make changes, but can they make those changes if he is still in charge? Maybe not.
You say facts do not care about feelings, but you offer ZERO facts. Just the typical butthurt from the right whenever they are not in power. "How dare they govern in a different way than we would !"
So I will do my own pro and con list. Much more factual, because I actually pay attention and make up my own mind without leaning on any party's scripted talking points.
Here's what the Libs did manage to do that was positive:
Carbon tax, other attempts to reduce GHG emissions. Not strong enough, but unlike the Conservatives, they are not climate deniers and actually believe in the scientific facts, instead of trying to deny them. Keep the carbon tax; reduce some other taxes if you must.
Managed COVID far better than the USA, far better than the Convoy clowns in the CPC would have done. Got PPE pretty damn fast, got COVID vaccines out to Canadians faster than the US did even when we have no suppliers and they did.
If the CPC were in charge, Canada would have had 2x as many unvaccinated, and 5x as many deaths.
Got CERB relief to workers and businesses - sloppy, yes, but also designed in a few weeks not a few years. Pollievre opposed relief of any kind.
Gun control - yes, it's popular and necessary. (Not with militia clowns, but those are paranoid clowns so fuck em.)
Infrastructure upgrades (lots of them) - par for the course for many governments, but the BC government has not had too many rejections when they asked them to build stuff in BC.
Calling down the Emergencies Act upon those Convoy conspiracy fuckheads.
Raised the interest rate? (Not actually them; the BoC did that, but strangling the real estate market to curb inflation is necessary.)
Trying to make better trade and strategic connections overseas, with countries that can help contain China. (yes, it is not just the US and Aussies doing this.)
Standing up for women's right to choose. People who want to end that keep claiming that is not their intention if elected, but it is. What is happening in the US would happen here if they had their way. Fuck that - we are not Gilead Jr.
Defending public health care.
Supporting the CBC - yeah, keep it alive. The private broadcasters are a fucking joke, especially when it comes to news, most of all international news (where they just borrow US news feeds).
Managing to make certain belligerent idiot premiers look like idiots - well, that they actually do that to themselves, just trying to pick fights with Ottawa instead of doing their own job.
Here's what they did that was negative, or failed to do:
Failed to keep their promise to get rid of First-Past-The-Post voting. Never had the balls to actually go through with it, and lost support that they never got back since then. (Ironically, if they lose now, FPTP will be the thing that kills them.)
Didn't push hard enough on climate change; kept approving & even publicy funding oil & gas projects, like an apology to Albertan climate deniers was ever necessary.
Didn't push hard enough or smart enough on gun control - they knew people wanted it, they made legislation, but let the opposition lie and say hunting rifles were going to get banned, which was never the case. Explanation failure, big time.
SNC-Lavalin / Jody Wilson Raybould mess. Old news, but I mean that was definitely an own goal, right from the PMO - nobody forced them to do that one.
Going back on their "no F-35" promise because they took years dithering over the alternative. (I suppose it does count as negotiating a better deal & more proven aircraft than Harper got.)
Immigration levels too high - not a matter of where the immigrants come from, but they are just hoovering them up at a rate far beyond our capacity to absorb it. Especially the Temporary Foreign Worker expansion too, which is not being accounted for. (Even the NDP premier of BC is telling them to throttle back.)
Drug de-criminalization: Now this one is either a win or a loss as policy, depending on your opinion about it. However, I would say the Canadian public in general opposes it, so it is a political loser.
Crime: Their Achilles heel; they want to be about the Charter, the Courts, the rule of law, but the reality on the street is that the court system is a laughing stock, far too out of touch with what people consider justice.
On bail reforms they made proved wrong-headed, and they went on summer break before undoing it, angering BC's NDP premier.
On gun control, they had the right idea, but holy fuck did they bungle the roll-out while trying to tip-toe around the paranoia of the gun lobby.
Money laundering / housing affordability issue: This is where crime ties in to housing affordabililty. Basically, the laws do not even know with 100% certainty who owns companies, houses, vehicles, etc. There is no transparency on it, and that means that shady "investors" can launder massive funds in real estate, which is amplified by speculation, to drive Canadians out of their own housing market. Building more supply (condos and so on) will do nothing to ease affordability because the units are being snapped up by those who do not even live here, and have mysterious sources of income. So, even though you could tag the last government with this too, the problem has gotten worse, and their response has been weak: the laws of property ownership are too anonymous, and the police and FINTRAC simply have no teeth to investigate.
RCMP problems: Yes, they are still too much of a "good ol' boys" organization, where senior members seem to listen too often to their ... other members. Anyways, their credibility has declined I think because nobody has yet asked why a national police force is still doing ground level low-stakes policing too.
Foreign policy:
Years of Canada under the Cons convinced players like Russia, China, and India that Canada was little more than Uncle Sam's submissive fuck puppet. (If they ever come back to power with Pollievre, it will become true again.)
However, Canada's attempt to reset their global image ran into a snag - guys like Xi Jinping and Narandra Modi are basically hyper-aggressive bullying types. They give zero fucks about Canada's goodwill, and openly run spies and assassins here. Until we hit them back, they will not respect us.
So you know, I am very prone to criticize this Liberal government. But only someone who is either a deceiver or a complete fool would say that we only need to tear a government down, but not consider the nature of those who would be replacing it.
My personal feeling is that Trudeau himself has become a liability, overshadowing his government's actual accomplishments or policies. The Libs definitely need to make changes, but can they make those changes if he is still in charge? Maybe not.
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Lunatics are the ones who can look at a whole country and world getting devastated by disasters caused by climate change and go "Naahhh, that ain't real. The oil industry said so. Let's do nothing about it - forever."
He did get his citizenship on Harper's watch. Make of that what you will, but listen here:
The Conservatives, Liberals, and NDP all have sikh members, all have somewhat more religiously-comitted Sikh members. They are all drawing from the same kind of groups as this guy Nijjar belonged to.
You can also find non-Sikh south asians among them, not as many, but they are there and have their own separate opinions about it.
Not many Sikhs are actually militant-supporting Khalistani separatists. But of course when Modi lauches some crackdown on them in India, that's going to raise the temperature of rhetoric among them here with sympathy protests, money raised for the cause, and most of all a source of dissident media which Modi cannot shut down. India of course, had agents here too, and recently assassinated a guy - nobody on earth believes it was not done by Modi's order.
You could say the same about the Chinese community. They have parallel issues, parallel media, and sometimes parallel political squabbles. Other Canadians hardly ever see it or talk about it. Look what happened when Xi Jinping launched a crackdown on Hong Kong, in the months before COVID. Tensions boiled over among Chinese people here, supporters and opponents of the HK crackdown actually fighting by Skytrain stations. And even then it was 100% certain that Chinese agents were lurking around watching & manipulating.
That's where most "foreign influence" is felt - among expatriate communities, and dealing with old homeland issues, not really Canada's own.
You also have to understand that autocratic foreign leaders are ultra-sensitive to criticism.
That is why Trudeau gets scorned by Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi, and sometimes others like Netanyahu (Israel) or MBS (Saudi Arabia), or Erdogan (Turkey).
They want him to help them crack down on their critics here. They simply do not know or care that Canada is a place with free speech. There actually has to be a credible terrorist plot before our police and intelligence agencies will take action against these groups.
Xi Jinping lost his shit and took two innocent Canadians hostage because Meng Wenzhou was facing an extradition procedure, a police & court action which the PM does not even control.
Modi lost his shit and had a guy killed here, because he figured that is what makes him look strong for his voters back in India.
So is the problem really Trudeau, or even Canada? Or is the problem these foreign autocrats frequently getting their dicks in a twist? I do not think any opposition party should be trying to milk it when Canada itself is the one being attacked.
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I'm not going to bother breaking down your response because it looks like you have pretty much everything figured out.
This is what happens when someone knows a little bit about everything, but not much about anything in particular.
In other news, It was interesting to see that the Waffen SS can still get a standing ovation in our House of Commons.
I thought that the only Nazis in Canada were long haul truckers.
Apparently I was mistaken.
Man are you some kind of mystic? Sitting here in Canada you know what Modi is thinking, when did he lose his shit, why is he behaving in a certain manner 😂.
Prove that those MPs knew he was an SS veteran.
They were misled by his kid. And the kid was likely misled by the father.
Do you really think any member of any party would knowingly applaud a former SS soldier?
Oi vey!
Did I say that they knew he was in the SS ?
No, I didn't.
Maybe someone could have checked his background.
We are going to host an important (apparently) foreign leader and we will trot out this random geezer and tell everyone he was a war "hero".
Oops! Awkward!
It's mainly on the Speaker of the House.
He screwed up and he resigned.
You missed my point.
You said they cheered a Waffen SS veteran.
They cheered a Ukrainian freedom fighter.
If they had known who he really was they would not have cheered.
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