"Vancouver is Dying"....the most damning documentary about DTES issues.

[SeekSteadyRegSP]

The DTES has been "dying" for decades now. When you pick up a girl on Cordova, just bring her several blocks out of the immediate area and bang her in front of some random home in a random neighborhood, and then throw your condoms and tissues into the garbage at a gas station on the way home. We don't want anything to be different than was the case in 1987. (except the condoms that used to be on the grass in the front yards the next mornings)

And you don't want to get caught in the DTES crossfire by banging your latest conquest in the immediate area so as to risk being among the dead when the whole place goes.

 

[kd75]

The average Vancouverite that wants "law and order" are not talking about intellectual mental masturbation gymnastics about "but what is law and order?" - they just want laws enforced. And if Canadian recidivism rates do not suffice for you in terms of "evidence" of deterrence, well, Canada also has one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world. The majority (the vast VAST majority) of Canadians will never step onto a correctional facility (let alone in one). You bringing up the US is asinine - our incarceration rates are something like 125 per 100,000 people (closer to 700 in the US). We don't have private prisons, our sentencing guidelines specifically state that imprisonment is a last resort tool, we give judges (generally) discretion in sentencing (which includes alternatives to incarceration), etc., etc., etc. Stop attempting to make the false equivalency that we are the US. Again, you can talk about Wiki definitions all you want - talk to the average Vancouverite, they aren't talking about massive public policy stuff grand schemes type of stuff, they just have the simple (and reasonable) expectation that laws be enforced.

Then as I said we aren't talking about the same thing . But I would love to have the sources of your numbers, thanks. Well we can talk about Canada under Harper who was tough on crime crime too and it didn't work very well, on the contrary, so I could've use this example too. Again my claim is the same. " they just have the simple expectation that laws are enforced" is a pretty vague statement. Can you elaborate? Are you saying that laws aren't enforced and thats a reason of the DTES issues ? If so , which law are you talking about exactly? And you said that laws aren't enforced, but lines after recognize that judges have discretion when sentencing ( police do also have a degree of discretion), therefore how it is exactly you want these laws to be enforced since people have discretion when using and applying them? That's a genuine question, I don't have issues with people asking for it but again it has to be explained because otherwise its rather vague. My question is ultimately How is "just enforcing laws" is going to effectively help the issue? That is what you have failed to tell me yet

 

[marsvolta]

none of you guys read or commented on my previous post. its the sad state of hyper politicized brain washing with the usual cognitive bias.

incarceration is NOT a deterrent to people with mental or drug addiction challenges. their brains don't work that way.

people with mental or drug addiction challenges that causes them to be a danger to others or themselves (including homelessness and serial crime) SHOULD BE institutionalized in a care setting until such time that they are deemed not to be a danger to others or themselves.

but as long as we have the "law and order" crowd pushing on the wrong solution and the "woke" compassion crowd pushing on the wrong solution then the problem will persist, and politicians who feed off of this schism for motivated support will do nothing but allow the situation to fester because it keeps them in power.

 

[JimDandy]

none of you guys read or commented on my previous post. its the sad state of hyper politicized brain washing with the usual cognitive bias.

incarceration is NOT a deterrent to people with mental or drug addiction challenges. their brains don't work that way.

people with mental or drug addiction challenges that causes them to be a danger to others or themselves (including homelessness and serial crime) SHOULD BE institutionalized in a care setting until such time that they are deemed not to be a danger to others or themselves.

but as long as we have the "law and order" crowd pushing on the wrong solution and the "woke" compassion crowd pushing on the wrong solution then the problem with persist.

So you are recommending Riverview reborn, only 100 times larger?

JD

 

[appleomac]

Then as I said we aren't talking about the same thing . But I would love to have the sources of your numbers, thanks. Well we can talk about Canada under Harper who was tough on crime crime too and it didn't work very well, on the contrary, so I could've use this example too. Again my claim is the same. " they just have the simple expectation that laws are enforced" is a pretty vague statement. Can you elaborate? Are you saying that laws aren't enforced and thats a reason of the DTES issues ? If so , which law are you talking about exactly? And you said that laws aren't enforced, but lines after recognize that judges have discretion when sentencing ( police do also have a degree of discretion), therefore how it is exactly you want these laws to be enforced since people have discretion when using and applying them? That's a genuine question, I don't have issues with people asking for it but again it has to be explained because otherwise its rather vague. My question is ultimately How is "just enforcing laws" is going to effectively help the issue? That is what you have failed to tell me yet

Exactly. You think we are somehow the US (which we are not) and for some reason, cannot fathom that when an average Vancouveruite says "law and order" they just want the laws to be enforced - full stop. YOU are the one wanting some intellectual debate about "but what is law and order?" - if you want that, get your arse into a University lecture hall so you can debate to your hearts content - so that you can mentally masturbate about all things not relevant to average everyday people (go live that privileged existence). And no, I'm not going into answering your silly pointless "but what laws should the enforced?" nonsense. Honestly, you're just "that guy" - you're working in a burger joint, someone comes in asks for a burger with swiss -- instead of taking the order, you need to have a debate about how "but that's a cheeseburger, what is a burger with swiss, can you explain what a burger with swiss is, Wiki says a burger with swiss is a cheeseburger so I don't know what you're talking about this burger with swiss business, a burger with swiss is vague". Give it rest mate.

 

[marsvolta]

So you are recommending Riverview reborn, only 100 times larger?

JD

yes, exactly. and it will be 100 times larger until enough people are rehabilitated or are in a treatment regime where they are no longer a danger to themselves or others.

we are literally growing this problem now and have been for the last two decades... especially with regards to drug addiction.

again, read this from the CEO of Our Place Society. these people are the professionals trying to care for these people and thats what they are saying.

 

[kd75]

Exactly. You think we are somehow the US (which we are not) and for some reason, cannot fathom that when an average Vancouveruite says "law and order" they just want the laws to be enforced - full stop. YOU are the one wanting some intellectual debate about "but what is law and order?" - if you want that, get your arse into a University lecture hall so you can debate to your hearts content - so that you can mentally masturbate about all things not relevant to average everyday people (go live that privileged existence). And no, I'm not going into answering your silly pointless "but what laws should the enforced?" nonsense. Honestly, you're just "that guy" - you're working in a burger joint, someone comes in asks for a burger with swiss -- instead of taking the order, you need to have a debate about how "but that's a cheeseburger, what is a burger with swiss, can you explain what a burger with swiss is, Wiki says a burger with swiss is a cheeseburger so I don't know what you're talking about this burger with swiss business, a burger with swiss is vague". Give it rest mate.

Again thats rather a vague statement ( which I find funny since you have accused me of vagueness more than one). So basically in your head wanting to have a constructive conversation based on facts and real world example is being intellectual? Sure I'll take that. So asking you what exactly you mean is masturbating? My man you just want to scream Law & order! without even thinking about what you mean and when challenged on your view ( aka democracy) you can't even discuss. Again if you have the conversation and critial thinking skills of a toddler its fine i'm not mad at it. I apologize for wanting to have a conversation, I sometimes forget how some people cannot substantiate any claim they made and rather act foolishly. It's also funny how to talk for and about people you don't know, me privileged? Because I have knowledge about a subject or because I disagree with you? All you do is discard what anyone says saying its none sense, irrelevant blabla, but cant use any counter argument. You made a claim that you can't substantiate and now you're just stuck in your own world of false truth and that you are right all the time which is fine I guess. your analogy is soooo bad, it makes no sense at all, a burger with swiss cheese is a burger with swiss cheese is pretty self explanatory and theres a definition for it so I don't see where the confusion would come from...
Again you seem to really be confused about my main argument and to what is a comparison ( or an example): Law and order does not work ( however you want to define it ), it has been proven time and time again. You can disagree with this view but then again you'd have to say why. Just saying " get over it" doesn't cut it in the real world my man. All these things are relevent to the average person" so in your world , The truth is irrelevant to people?
And I'll add for the last time ( then I'll stop answering to you because obviously its pointless ) that only really simplistic individuals think that complex problems can be solved by simple answers of people who haven't even studied in depth the subject. I'll leave you in your world of claims made without any factual basis and where wanting to talk intellectually of a subject is bad , Do you yourself a favor, open a book once or twice, I swear its not going to kill you .

 

[Drjohn]

Again thats rather a vague statement ( which I find funny since you have accused me of vagueness more than one). So basically in your head wanting to have a constructive conversation based on facts and real world example is being intellectual? Sure I'll take that. So asking you what exactly you mean is masturbating? My man you just want to scream Law & order! without even thinking about what you mean and when challenged on your view ( aka democracy) you can't even discuss. Again if you have the conversation and critial thinking skills of a toddler its fine i'm not mad at it. I apologize for wanting to have a conversation, I sometimes forget how some people cannot substantiate any claim they made and rather act foolishly. It's also funny how to talk for and about people you don't know, me privileged? Because I have knowledge about a subject or because I disagree with you? All you do is discard what anyone says saying its none sense, irrelevant blabla, but cant use any counter argument. You made a claim that you can't substantiate and now you're just stuck in your own world of false truth and that you are right all the time which is fine I guess. your analogy is soooo bad, it makes no sense at all, a burger with swiss cheese is a burger with swiss cheese is pretty self explanatory and theres a definition for it so I don't see where the confusion would come from...
Again you seem to really be confused about my main argument and to what is a comparison ( or an example): Law and order does not work ( however you want to define it ), it has been proven time and time again. You can disagree with this view but then again you'd have to say why. Just saying " get over it" doesn't cut it in the real world my man. All these things are relevent to the average person" so in your world , The truth is irrelevant to people?
And I'll add for the last time ( then I'll stop answering to you because obviously its pointless ) that only really simplistic individuals think that complex problems can be solved by simple answers of people who haven't even studied in depth the subject. I'll leave you in your world of claims made without any factual basis and where wanting to talk intellectually of a subject is bad , Do you yourself a favor, open a book once or twice, I swear its not going to kill you .

Your obsession with "law and order" is starting to be a concern.
Maybe some counseling?
You might try getting a job or maybe some hobbies. The word salad isn't changing anyone's mind on the topic.

Nobody's buying what you're selling.

 

[kd75]

Tell me you’ve never read a book without saying you’ve never read a book. View attachment 50760

Right? At 1st it was mildly amusing, then you realize these people have children and its " scary"...

 

[Drjohn]

Right? At 1st it was mildly amusing, then you realize these people have children and its " scary"...

How many books did you read before they gave you your "I am an intellectual" certificate?
You're a clown.
I'm pretty confident that I've already forgotten more than you'll ever know.

 

[Forum mod]

That's about enough of that. Play nice please.