Ukraine is now at war with Russia - official and only Ukraine Thread

[westwoody]

Russian state media is openly promoting genocide. Fuck this bullshit about “it’s just Putin and his inner circle”. Every time I see a burnt out APC or tank I hope it was full of troops…or more accurately rapists, murderers and looters.
Mass murder being viewed by lots of journalists.

 

[Forum mod]

As the russians retreat, they are randomly killing civilians, raping and such, as well as leaving mines all over the place. These guys have not changed tactics since WW2.

 

[SkinnyJohn]

Has anyone's opinion about the possibility of nuclear war changed during the last few weeks? Is Putin a man that is too unhinged to predict?

 

[westwoody]

Is Putin a man that is too unhinged to predict?

His disregard for human life - including his own troops - and dishonesty is a lot like Hitler’s.
He could be happy to down in flames as long as he takes everyone else with him.

 

[FreeG]

His disregard for human life - including his own troops - and dishonesty is a lot like Hitler’s.
He could be happy to down in flames as long as he takes everyone else with him.

Agreed. If there’s one consistency, it’s that no one can accurately predict Putins next move or motivation. Which IMO makes him/Russia even more dangerous.
The evidence of genocide certainly starts with him (hard to have a genocide if you don’t fkn invade a place to begin with!)but shouldn’t surprise anyone from the early evidence of this war: poorly trained troops, low morale, misdirection on why they were invading. It’s history repeat of nearly EVERY armed conflict in history (US hasn’t been immune by any means in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Im also curious how what info gets up to Putin; I wouldn’t be surprised if aides/generals are afraid to share the truth (just like Trumps circle was). And I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia resorts to nuke weapons; never thought that was possible but such is my dim view of Putins mental state. :-(

 

[JimDandy]

Don’t mind me but it’s spelled lose not loose. I know spelling is hard.

You beat me to it lol

JD

 

[80watts]

You beat me to it lol

JD

I edited the loose out...

 

[80watts]

Russian state media is openly promoting genocide. Fuck this bullshit about “it’s just Putin and his inner circle”. Every time I see a burnt out APC or tank I hope it was full of troops…or more accurately rapists, murderers and looters.
Mass murder being viewed by lots of journalists.

Have to wonder if the conscripts were sent in first, to toughen them up?
It seems the psychology is very simple, get them to kill, and then kill again, pretty soon you have a cold hearted killer on your hands... It starts at the rifle range, with silouettes of heads and bodies on the down range target.... de-empathizing/belittling the enemy by calling them names etc. Toms and Jerries in WW2, gooks in the vietnam war etc...
I think the last time Russian troop were blooded this way was Chechnya 2000-2017. Russia looking to train up more killers by using Ukraine??

 

[oldshark]

Have to wonder if the conscripts were sent in first, to toughen them up?
It seems the psychology is very simple, get them to kill, and then kill again, pretty soon you have a cold hearted killer on your hands... It starts at the rifle range, with silouettes of heads and bodies on the down range target.... de-empathizing/belittling the enemy by calling them names etc. Toms and Jerries in WW2, gooks in the vietnam war etc...
I think the last time Russian troop were blooded this way was Chechnya 2000-2017. Russia looking to train up more killers by using Ukraine??

The Russians actually sent in some of their best troops, the 'contract' troops to try to get into Kiev. They don't put conscripts into airborne units which were the ones sent into Hostomel. You don't give your best standard tank, the T72B3s to your worst conscript troops. No, these were what they call 'contract' personnel who actually sign up to be professionals. Sure they also conscript lots of boys as well and these have been involved as well. The Russian army has been on a downward spiral in quality for years. It is so bad that senior officers, generals, have been sent into restore the situation, getting killed in the process. And the conscripts come from a lifestyle which is often sad and brutal. Lately the Russian army has been taking in lots of people with problems with the law. So we see all this playing out in the Ukraine.

 

[westwoody]

Imagine losing your flagship to a country that doesn’t even have a navy LOL

 

[rlock]

View attachment 38849

Hehehe....

Shouldn't laugh, but yeah, the last time a ship roughly this big was sunk, it was during the Falklands War (in fact this one is bigger). Ouch! Let's hope it was not carrying any nukes on board. Drones, anti-ship missiles, cruise missiles, and who knows what else.

Ukraine had to have help on this one; it has no way to track such a thing at sea normally, but somehow they were dead-accurate in finding it (without a navy of their own) and defeating its countermeasures. Believe me, the USA and other NATO countries on the Black Sea watch everything that goes on there. It would be no big thing for them to act as the eyes & ears and "paint" this target for the Ukranians to hit. Very deniable kind of help; nothing can really be done by the Russians but to gripe about it.

Quoting other sources: "Moskva was the only ship in the fleet with long-range air defences; it did not itself fire missiles at land targets in Ukraine, but provided anti-aircraft support to vessels that did, and its sinking prompted Russian ships to move further offshore. "

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

They had the help of a drone which has been very successful at targeting Russian assets
https://www.flightglobal.com/milita...-involving-drones-and-missiles/148280.article

 

[MB Mod]

Hehehe....

Shouldn't laugh, but yeah, the last time a ship roughly this big was sunk, it was during the Falklands War (in fact this one is bigger). Ouch! Let's hope it was not carrying any nukes on board. Drones, anti-ship missiles, cruise missiles, and who knows what else.

Ukraine had to have help on this one; it has no way to track such a thing at sea normally, but somehow they were dead-accurate in finding it (without a navy of their own) and defeating its countermeasures. Believe me, the USA and other NATO countries on the Black Sea watch everything that goes on there. It would be no big thing for them to act as the eyes & ears and "paint" this target for the Ukranians to hit. Very deniable kind of help; nothing can really be done by the Russians but to gripe about it.

Quoting other sources: "Moskva was the only ship in the fleet with long-range air defences; it did not itself fire missiles at land targets in Ukraine, but provided anti-aircraft support to vessels that did, and its sinking prompted Russian ships to move further offshore. "

A couple of points about your post I was on the HMS Coventry when she sank and there was nothing funny about it, but ancient history moving to the present there’s no confirmation of what happened to the Russian ship missile or fire. Warships are notorious for fires and I don’t believe in either sides propaganda.

 

[80watts]

A fire that resulted in explosions, would mean something failed, or a bad design or containment of the fire. Warships are designed for compartmentalization to reduce the risk of fire and floods.
For a ship to sink that is compartmentalized, it would require a vast majority of its watertight compartments to flood. Which means the fire/explosion affected alot of the ships areas. A magazine exploding could do that and puncture the hull below the waterline. If a missile hit, you almost have to flood the magazine immediately to prevent explosion (which leads back to design of ship).
Kinda glad the ship sunk, the Russians deserve it for invading Ukraine.
Never know for sure if it was a missile or fire, unless someones dives on the ship to find out why. I think diving in the Black Sea is not recommended due to toxic waters at depth in the black sea (saw a documentary on ancient greek ruins in black sea).

 

[masterblaster]

A fire that resulted in explosions, would mean something failed, or a bad design or containment of the fire. Warships are designed for compartmentalization to reduce the risk of fire and floods.
For a ship to sink that is compartmentalized, it would require a vast majority of its watertight compartments to flood. Which means the fire/explosion affected alot of the ships areas. A magazine exploding could do that and puncture the hull below the waterline. If a missile hit, you almost have to flood the magazine immediately to prevent explosion (which leads back to design of ship).
Kinda glad the ship sunk, the Russians deserve it for invading Ukraine.
Never know for sure if it was a missile or fire, unless someones dives on the ship to find out why. I think diving in the Black Sea is not recommended due to toxic waters at depth in the black sea (saw a documentary on ancient greek ruins in black sea).

If the Russians say it wasn’t hit by a missile then you can be pretty well assured that it was. Russians are notorious liars.

 

[westwoody]

A couple of points about your post I was on the HMS Coventry when she sank and there was nothing funny about it, but ancient history moving to the present there’s no confirmation of what happened to the Russian ship missile or fire. Warships are notorious for fires and I don’t believe in either sides propaganda.

US said today Moskva was hit by 2 Ukrainian Neptune missiles.
Ukraine used drones to overwhelm the Moskva air defense system.
Lots of radio traffic and electronic eavesdropping was going on no doubt. I think the US was being careful not to reveal exactly how much they know. They were saying earlier that they could not confirm or deny anything, but now the Russians themselves acknowledge the sinking.
Heavy loss of life, Turkey says they rescued less than 60 sailors out of a complement of 510. Captain went down with his ship.

 

[austin1]

US said today Moskva was hit by 2 Ukrainian Neptune missiles.
Ukraine used drones to overwhelm the Moskva air defense system.
Lots of radio traffic and electronic eavesdropping was going on no doubt. I think the US was being careful not to reveal exactly how much they know. They were saying earlier that they could not confirm or deny anything, but now the Russians themselves acknowledge the sinking.
Heavy loss of life, Turkey says they rescued less than 60 sailors out of a complement of 510. Captain went down with his ship.

The Russians are not going to like this.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

 

[80watts]

US said today Moskva was hit by 2 Ukrainian Neptune missiles.
Ukraine used drones to overwhelm the Moskva air defense system.
Lots of radio traffic and electronic eavesdropping was going on no doubt. I think the US was being careful not to reveal exactly how much they know. They were saying earlier that they could not confirm or deny anything, but now the Russians themselves acknowledge the sinking.
Heavy loss of life, Turkey says they rescued less than 60 sailors out of a complement of 510. Captain went down with his ship.

I'm thinking the best way would be to launch stuff outside range of the CIWIS. Saturate that radar of the CIWIS and out of the blue use a faster missle to slam into the side of the ship. Better yet have the CIWIS look in one direction and slam it from another direction.

If the CIWIS can only track 50 objects, saturate it with 100 objects.

So always have 2 or more CIWIS, or better yet 4 of them port and stbd. for a total of 8. Hold back one for that fast incoming missle.... The limitation of a CIWIS would be the amount of ammo rounds it carries. Most carry 1500 to 2000 rounds. A small 1-2 second burst could use up rounds quickly on 50 or more targets. CIWIS runs out of ammo.... Sitting duck....

Another item is if the CIWIS can alternate targets as new updating data comes in, without having system jam up (freeze up computer). Radar, long range, medium range and short range (CIWIS radar) would have to work together to update data of incoming information.

Another item was if the weather was stormy, with high waves, because a sea-skimming missile can go unnoticed due to interference of waves.
Have to remember the Ukrainians use basically the same equipment as the Russian Navy uses. So they know the areas of weakness of certain systems.

Meanwhile the US has lots of satelites overhead watching everything... So does Elon.....

 

[westwoody]

the Ukrainians use basically the same equipment as the Russian Navy uses

The cruiser Moskva was built in Ukraine during the Soviet era.
Although both sides use similar looking eq the Ukrainian tech is absolute cutting edge while the Russian tech is far out of date.

Putin allocated a billion rubles for a fleet air defence upgrade and the guy in charge pilfered over 650 million of it.