Why Jews flee to Europe (or at least half of it)

[vancity_cowboy]

long, but a thought-provoking read

Doug Saunders
Vienna — The Globe and Mail
Published Saturday, Nov. 16 2013, 8:00 AM EST

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...urope-or-at-least-half-of-it/article15446274/

This has taken both Israelis and many Europeans by surprise – and offended some Israeli leaders. Last month, Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, during a visit to Budapest, took to Facebook to denounce the growing wave of Europe-bound Jews who have become known in the Israeli media as the New Yordim (emigrants, or literally, “fallen”).

“A word to all those who are fed up, and are leaving for Europe,” he wrote, then described his family’s tragic history in the Holocaust, concluding: “Forgive me if I’m a little impatient with those who are willing to throw away the only country the Jews have because it’s easier to live in Berlin.”

Easier to live in Berlin? That would not, even a generation ago, have been a common Jewish sentiment. Among North American Jews, even visiting Germany on vacation remains a matter of controversy and distaste. The black years of the Shoah are too fresh in many family histories.

Yet for this generation of Israelis, the shift to Europe is surprisingly uncontroversial. Last year, I had a conversation with a successful Israeli historian who had taken up residency in Germany. “That move must have shocked a lot of your friends in Israel,” I suggested. She looked askance, as if this was an unheard-of notion: “No, of course not,” she said. “My friends are all just jealous that I can get a visa to live here. Every Israeli academic of my generation wants to move to Europe.”

Much of this emigration has to do with Israel’s impossible economic conditions – writer Ruth Margalit recently noted that 87 per cent of Israelis over 25 are financially dependent on their parents.

But it is also political: European countries are seen by Israelis as stable, egalitarian and safe, while in an Israel governed by hard-line regimes, the zealots and the Orthodox seem destined to prevail. “With all due respect,” Jerusalem Post columnist Susan Hatis Rolef recently wrote, “I think it is physically safer for a Jew to live in Berlin these days than in Jerusalem, though I do not belittle the emotional difficulty involved for a Jew to do so, given the not-too-distant history.”

She listed the reasons for the exodus: “loss of hope that peace will ever prevail … discomfort with the lack of determination of Israel’s leaders to make a serious effort to separate religion and state … and the feeling that life in Israel frequently feels like life in a pressure cooker.”

Still, it might seem more logical that the Jewish exodus would be out of Europe, not into it. Here in Austria, a party with an anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi background won nearly a fifth of the vote in the Sept. 29 elections. In Hungary, France, Greece and the Netherlands, parties based on religious and racial intolerance have had strong showings (although they govern nowhere). In a recent survey, 76 per cent of European Jews said they believe anti-Semitism has increased over the past five years. In France, home to half of Europe’s Jews, almost half said they had considered emigrating out of Europe.

So which is it: a Europe safe for Jews disenchanted by Israel, or a Europe Jews are seeking to flee? It’s important to understand that there are really two Europes.

The most comprehensive recent study of cross-European attitudes toward religious minorities was conducted two years ago by Andreas Zick of the Institute for Interdisciplinary Resarch on Conflict and Violence. It found a huge divergence in attitudes.

On the statement “Jews have too much influence in my country,” a staggering 69 per cent of Hungarians and 50 per cent of Poles answered yes, compared to far smaller numbers in Western Europe (14 per cent in France, 20 per cent in Germany and 6 per cent in the Netherlands) Likewise, majorities in Poland, Hungary and Portugal agreed with the statement “Jews in general do not care about anything or anyone but their own kind,” while this was a small minority view in the larger economies.

In Europe’s centre and east, where hardly any Jews remain to be found, public intolerance has risen to dangerous proportions. In the larger economies, Jews are largely seen as fellow citizens with a different religion. Unfortunately, the places where people of any religious minority are free from annoying zealotry are becoming fewer in number.

 

[VanessaofBC]

From what I understand, The story talks of there being two different Jews - #1 those who could never go to Europe because The black years of the Shoah are too fresh in many family histories #2. The new generation who has no "real connection" to the past want to go becasue it looks good on your resume

Two types of Jews that actually do go to Europe: #1 - There to study, like "Israeli historian who had taken up residency in Germany." 2. Those who immigrate into the country, the New Yordim.

It is interesting you bring this up I saw this poster in the Skytrain the other day.



I imagine living in Israel must be very hard. I had a friend from Ontario actually go and serve in the military there for two years. This was around 2007.

edit: QUestion: Do Jews Identify as Israeli's and vice versa?

 

[vancity_cowboy]

i loved the line from 'exodus'...

if moses, in the 40 years he spent wandering around in the desert not knowing his ass from his elbow, had walked 100 yards each day in the right direction, they would have ended up in england, and the whole middle eastern question would have been avoided

 

[amigo67]

I can hardly blame them for leaving Israel. It is an armed camp. Soldiers everywhere to keep the peace. Never knowing if some random car bomb or suicide attack will happen.
In Europe, There is none of that.

 

[uncleg]

i loved the line from 'exodus'...

if moses, in the 40 years he spent wandering around in the desert not knowing his ass from his elbow, had walked 100 yards each day in the right direction, they would have ended up in england, and the whole middle eastern question would have been avoided

Like Golda's better..........40 years wandering around the desert and he ends up in the only place in the Middle East without oil.......

 

[Miss*Bijou]

From what I understand, The story talks of there being two different Jews - #1 those who could never go to Europe because The black years of the Shoah are too fresh in many family histories #2. The new generation who has no "real connection" to the past want to go becasue it looks good on your resume

Two types of Jews that actually do go to Europe: #1 - There to study, like "Israeli historian who had taken up residency in Germany." 2. Those who immigrate into the country, the New Yordim.

It is interesting you bring this up I saw this poster in the Skytrain the other day.



I imagine living in Israel must be very hard. I had a friend from Ontario actually go and serve in the military there for two years. This was around 2007.

edit: QUestion: Do Jews Identify as Israeli's and vice versa?

I think it's a lot harder to live in the occupied territories than it is to live in Israel.


No offence Vanessa and this isn't at all directed at you personally but that is a ridiculous photo/map. 1000 BCE? Lol How about we stick to this past century since 1000 BCE is really of no relevance in terms of what matters in 2013. The poster was in response to this one:

<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://visualizingpalestine.org/Disappearing-Palestine">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/1rI4.png" width="100%" alt="Clipped from http://visualizingpalestine.org/Disappearing-Palestine">
</a>

<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://visualizingpalestine.org/infograhic/a-policy-of-displacement">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/1rI9.png" width="100%" alt="Clipped from http://visualizingpalestine.org/infograhic/a-policy-of-displacement">
</a>








As for your question.. Jews anywhere in the world can become Israeli. Most Israelis are Jews but not all of them:

75.4 percent of them are Jewish (about 6,037,700 individuals), 20.6 percent are Arabs (about 1,656,600 individuals), while the remaining 4 percent (about 318,100 individuals) are defined as "others" (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Ministry of Interior as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have an ethnic or religious classification).

Note: Arab = Palestinian . Because Jews from Arab countries are included in the 'Jewish" category and not in the 'Arab' category. 'Arab' is how Israelis refer to the citizens who were remained within Israel when the State was created and who were not expelled along with the 750 000-800 000 Palestinians who became refugees and were never allowed to return to their homes.


But an Israeli passport or identity card specifies whether the person is Jewish or Arab (not sure what it says for the others) and this determines how they are treated by the state, the level and quality of benefits they receive, whether they can purchase land and where they can live, among other things...

 

[Miss*Bijou]

i loved the line from 'exodus'...

if moses, in the 40 years he spent wandering around in the desert not knowing his ass from his elbow, had walked 100 yards each day in the right direction, they would have ended up in england, and the whole middle eastern question would have been avoided

Not really true. While these days that's the story, zionism wasn't a religious movement when it was created. It was totally secular, with at different times considering Argentina and Uganda for resettlement before deciding on Israel's current geographic location. So, no, the religious aspect was not completely absent but it was not a significant aspect, as Theodor Herzl, who was the 'father' of zionism was a secular and envisionned a secular Israel.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I can hardly blame them for leaving Israel. It is an armed camp. Soldiers everywhere to keep the peace. Never knowing if some random car bomb or suicide attack will happen.
In Europe, There is none of that.

Sorry but that just isn't true.

Just look at the numbers from the last column on the right for fatalities (in Israel). Then compare to the others.
http://www.btselem.org/statistics/fatalities/after-cast-lead/by-date-of-event


There were a few years where there were a lot of suicide bombing attacks in Israel but that has not been the case for many years now.
http://www.btselem.org/statistics/fatalities/before-cast-lead/by-date-of-event


Plus, it isn't the reason given by the Israelis who leave in any case.

And they are the soldiers everywhere. And let's be honest, the soldiers aren't everywhere in Israel. They're everywhere in the territories and peace isn't what they're after.






<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://visualizingpalestine.org/timeline-of-violence">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/1rIg.png" width="100%" alt="Clipped from http://visualizingpalestine.org/timeline-of-violence">
</a>

 

[VanessaofBC]

What I couldn't believe Miss B is that they even have posters like this IN the Skytrain!! . Another one I saw said " Canada & Israel = Shared Values".

edit: I am not taking sides I have friends that are Jewish and Arab.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

What I couldn't believe Miss B is that they even have posters like this IN the subway!! . Another one I saw said " Canada & Israel = Shared Values".

I know...it's not too surprising though...

http://seriouslyfreespeech.ca/

 

[sdw]

But an Israeli passport or identity card specifies whether the person is Jewish or Arab (not sure what it says for the others) and this determines how they are treated by the state, the level and quality of benefits they receive, whether they can purchase land and where they can live, among other things...

Actually the above statement hasn't been true since 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_identity_card

Document contents

The card is laminated and held in one of the two inner compartments of its plastic cover, and includes the following personal details:

unique number, called Identity Number
full name (surname/last name, given name)
name of father
name of mother
date of birth (both civil and——the Hebrew date as well ( The Ministry of Interior indicates the Hebrew date to everyone / תאריך הלידה העברי מופיע לכולם בתעודת הזהות)
ethnicity (only in cards issued before 2005)
gender
place and date of issue (both Gregorian and Hebrew date)
portrait photo (in color)

There is also a separate document appendix, a folded paper contained in the other inner compartment, listing the following:

current address
previous addresses
previous name(s)
citizenship (the bearer may be a permanent resident with a foreign citizenship)
name, birth date and identity number of spouse and children
electoral polling station stamp: the appendix used to be stamped at the polling station to help prevent ballot stuffing. This regulation is abolished since 1992, so that the voter may now use an ID card without an appendix.

The reason people leave is that the system of voting results in coalition governments that are unable to negotiate any sort of peace agreement with the Palestinians. Every time an Israeli government gets close because of the diplomacy of other nations - - - the religious right and "settlers" leave the coalition and another election must be held.

Israel is the single biggest argument against any system other than "first past the post".

Another reason people leave is the taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel
A constant state of high military readiness is expensive. People don't see a government being elected that will attain peace and therefore a reduction in taxes.

 

[sbill]

...

No offence Vanessa and this isn't at all directed at you personally but that is a ridiculous photo/map. 1000 BCE? Lol How about we stick to this past century since 1000 BCE is really of no relevance in terms of what matters in 2013...

So history isn't relevant beyond the past century?

Pretty sure there's some aboriginal people in North America (and elsewhere) that would debate you on this ...

 

[1nitestan]

Local Jews are up in arms about the bus posters...but t's free speech. The thing about Israel/Jews is that they sometimes want to corner the market on playing the 'victim' card. Go figure it was Israel who voted to not recognize what Stalin did to the Ukrainians as genocide as defined by the UN. I know quite a lot of Jews who hate Israel for this type of behavior.

 

[uncleg]

Got to love the fact that the Palestine Awareness Coalition is actually a Jewish Group..............

 

[Tugela]

Local Jews are up in arms about the bus posters...but t's free speech. The thing about Israel/Jews is that they sometimes want to corner the market on playing the 'victim' card. Go figure it was Israel who voted to not recognize what Stalin did to the Ukrainians as genocide as defined by the UN. I know quite a lot of Jews who hate Israel for this type of behavior.

I think the position of Israel is that genocide was something that was unique to them, it allows them to claim the status of victims and thus any behaviour of their own is excused. The value of that is degraded if it is something that others have suffered as well, so it is a property that is jealously guarded.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

So history isn't relevant beyond the past century?

Pretty sure there's some aboriginal people in North America (and elsewhere) that would debate you on this ...

Um, I didn't say that. Do you have to look back to 1000BC to establish the presence of aboriginal people in North America's? No, not even close. What I was saying is that the poster is ridiculous if it needs to go back 3000 years to try to defend that it should be entitled to have stolen and continue to steal the land of others, who don't have to go back 3000 years but who have been there for several generations and more than a century. So you're talking apples and oranges.


But really, it's not even the point at all.

What's ridiculous about the poster is that it is a dishonest way to manipulate or deflect attention on what the original posters (the Palestine one) bring attention to. Because ultimately it doesn't matter whether or not you or I or anyone thinks that an ethnic or religious group of people who claim that over 2000 years ago they lived in a specific geographic location and that it should entitle them to not only move there (because Jews did immigrate for several decades before it became Israel) but to expel the indigenous and current occupants, who have been there for 100 years or more. You see it doesn't matter whether we think it's fair or right because it's done.


What does matter and what the original poster shows clearly is that BEYOND the 55% (or so.. Can't remember exactly but it's more than 50%) that the UN decided it had authority to 'give away' of Palestine's territory, as it was under British Mandate, more and more has steadily continued to be lost to Israel over the last 65 years. Lost by land seizure (theft), settlements, demolition, expulsion, confiscation, annexation and of course construction of a massive wall on Palestinian stolen land (theft, theft, theft).


That's what the first poster is about. And that's why the second poster, apparently meant as a response (i guess?) is ridiculous. Because it's besides the point, irrelevant to the issue and simply a weird, dishonest attempt at implying they're the real victims here (i guess?) because OMG 3000 years ago we had soooo much more (says the bible LOL) compared to what we have now. The idea is that while they distract, deceive or confuse you (and everyone), they get to continue to steal more land, expel more Palestinians, build more settlements....and pretend they actually want peace. And it works. It's worked for several decades, which is how what's depicted in the first poster has happened in the first place.


So that is what I meant. I tried to make it short but that didn't work so here you go..now you have the long explanation. Hopefully I've explaned it better now

edit: I am not taking sides I have friends that are Jewish and Arab.

As do I. It's not really about taking a side. Or that criticism is being 'against' or 'for' a side. There are plenty of people who are Jewish who happen to think Israel's actions are wrong. It's not about taking sides, it's about solidarity and calling out injustices.



'All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing...'
--Edmund Burke


You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train
--Howard Zinn

Actually the above statement hasn't been true since 2005

Prior to 2005 Israeli Identity Cards included a reference to the bearer's ethnic group. The official term for this category in Hebrew was le'om (לאום), and it was officially translated into Arabic as qawmīya (قومية). These terms can be translated into English as "nation", but in the sense of ethnic affiliation rather than citizenship. The le'om attribution was assigned by the ministry of the interior regardless of the card bearer's preference. There were several attributions, the main ones being: Jewish, Arab, Druze and Circassian. Identity Cards issued before 2005 included a disclaimer written in small print in Hebrew and Arabic indicating that the card may serve as a prima facie proof for the data it includes except le'om, marital status and the spouse's name.

Beginning in the 2000s, the ethnicity indicator has begun to be officially phased out. The bearer's ethnic identity can nevertheless be inferred by other data - the Hebrew calendar's date of birth is often used for Jews, and also, each community has its typical first and last names.

There have been some fierce legal battles about identifying the ethnicity of the bearer in the Israeli Identity card. As of 2005, the ethnicity has not been printed; a line of eight asterisks appears instead. In 2002, the Supreme Court of Israel instructed the Interior Ministry to indicate the ethnicity of people who underwent a Reform conversion as Jews. The Minister at the time, Eli Yishai, a member of Shas, an Haredi party, decided he would drop the ethnicity category altogether, rather than list as Jews people whom he considered non-Jews. In 2004, the Supreme Court denied a citizen's petition to reinstate this indicator, stating that the field in the document was meant for statistical collection only, and not as a declarative statement of Judaism.

The state's registration which serves as the basis for the data in the Identity Cards still indicates the ethnicity of each person, and this information is available upon request in certain circumstances determined by the registration law.

<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://electronicintifada.net/content/lawsuit-challenges-israels-discriminatory-citizenship-definition/8767">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/1rOX.png" width="100%" alt="Clipped from http://electronicintifada.net/content/lawsuit-challenges-israels-discriminatory-citizenship-definition/8767">
</a>



<div style="max-width: 600px;">
<a href="http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/recognize-nationality-endanger.html">
<img src="http://www.curate.us/i/1rOV.png" width="100%" alt="Clipped from http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/recognize-nationality-endanger.html">
</a>

 

[sevenofnine]

There is a book I am trying to get my hands on

My promised land.
The triumph and tragedy of Israel.
Ari Shavit.
In one chapter he discusses what happened to the Palestinian's who lived there,
he says or claims an entire town was evacuated to make room for new immigrants.

It's no surprise there is no peace there.




I can't remember who said. But a book I read a long time ago.
Israel. You will just become a prisoner in your own country.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Local Jews are up in arms about the bus posters...but t's free speech. The thing about Israel/Jews is that they sometimes want to corner the market on playing the 'victim' card. Go figure it was Israel who voted to not recognize what Stalin did to the Ukrainians as genocide as defined by the UN. I know quite a lot of Jews who hate Israel for this type of behavior.

I think the position of Israel is that genocide was something that was unique to them, it allows them to claim the status of victims and thus any behaviour of their own is excused. The value of that is degraded if it is something that others have suffered as well, so it is a property that is jealously guarded.

Have you ever seen the movie “Defamation”?


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/67H-pLvbCIs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sbill]

Um, I didn't say that. ...


But really, it's not even the point at all. ...

You see it doesn't matter whether we think it's fair or right because it's done. ...

So that is what I meant. I tried to make it short but that didn't work so here you go..now you have the long explanation. Hopefully I've explaned it better now

Got it. History only matters when and if you say so. Glad you were succinct as usual!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

There is a book I am trying to get my hands on

My promised land.
The triumph and tragedy of Israel.
Ari Shavit.
In one chapter he discusses what happened to the Palestinian's who lived there,
he says or claims an entire town was evacuated to make room for new immigrants.

It's no surprise there is no peace there.


I can't remember who said. But a book I read a long time ago.
Israel. You will just become a prisoner in your own country.

A town?

More like many, many towns (500 villages + 11 towns!) and it's far from over. But in 48, 700 000-800 000 Palestinians were expelled. (evacuated is not an accurate term IMO) There is a lot known about these events (crimes/ethnic cleansing), Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian who has written several books about this. Here's a short clip/intro (the full version is 30min and is here) :


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wV9gv7w3pLY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





There are several others on youtube.. This one is really good and covers a lot so I'll include it too for anyone who might be interested. I know I learned a lot from these and others..


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sIWvcBzbqVc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




I am reading a super good book right now and it covers a lot of this. I'll add a quote later but the book is Goliath: Life and loathing in Greater Israel by Max Blumenthal and the excerpt available for preview is pretty long and worth a read. That's what made me decide to buy it It's shocking.