Why Jews flee to Europe (or at least half of it)

[CLUB78]

My great-grandmother's family lived (some very briefly) as Jews in Berlin during the holocaust.

She had to marry a 30yr old farmer at 13 to escape the country to Scotland. Nice family, eh? Anyways, she didn't "get" Israel. She didn't understand why anyone would want to live in the Middle East in a desert when they could live in Canada.

She saw the horrors of war which are just that; the horrors of war. What she saw as a Jew during the war were very similar in impact to what I'm sure other 13 year olds have seen in war.

People being tortured and killed because you don't want them there and they won't or can't leave is a common theme in war. So are wars fought over imposing a group's particular ideology or deposing another group's.

Of course all of this, the religion, the ideals, the claims to rights over particular patches of dirt, are subterfuge for what war is actually about.



This is it, on a global scale.

Remove the desire for these things (except women, who also won't need/want money and can freely hump like hippie bunnies) and you remove conflict. IMO of course.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Got it. History only matters when and if you say so. Glad you were succinct as usual!

I'm sorry you totally missed the point. Again. Although I have a feeling you're doing it on purpose so suit yourself.. But you still totally missed the point. I tried the short version, then the long one because you hadn't understood it/it wasn't clear so it's pretty rich you'd actually complain about it on top of ignoring it. Very honest of you. :thumb:

Have a nice day.

 

[sbill]

I'm sorry you totally missed the point. Again. Although I have a feeling you're doing it on purpose so suit yourself.. But you still totally missed the point. I tried the short version, then the long one because you hadn't understood it/it wasn't clear so it's pretty rich you'd actually complain about it on top of ignoring it. Very honest of you. :thumb:

Have a nice day.

Long ago, on the farm, I learned, when a fencepost started to splinter, it was time to stop belting it with a sledgehammer. When folks post pages and pages in a thread, instead of separating out cogent arguments, its hard to take them seriously. Some folks take themselves way too seriously

Now I'm not saying this is you, just saying I'm not the only one that might have missed a point somewheres in there.

Have a good day yourself.

 

[VanessaofBC]

^Glad to see you stopped talking to the troll, Miss Bijoux.



1) What the hell? What station had THAT posted? That's fucked.
.

Believe it or not it is on the walk into Waterfront Station from the Canada Line. There are two "Pro-Israel" Posters down there. I am not sure if they have them at other stations as well.

Another Skytrain station ad campaign I found odd (and off topic, sorry) was for Stoli vodka. After the Russian "homophobic incident" we were supposed to "boycott" Russian vodka, then they plaster Granville station with their ads. I'm onto you Stoli......:wave:

 

[Miss*Bijou]

When folks post pages and pages in a thread, instead of separating out cogent arguments, its hard to take them seriously.

My reply to you was 4 short paragraphs and a couple of sentences. Hardly 'pages and pages'.

I'm honestly really not sure what it is that you expected from me but I think my first reply was reasonable. If you decided not to take it seriously (or to read it), I can't do anything about it - obviously it's your choice. But in that case, don't bother commenting if you're not interested because frankly I fail to see what your last 2 posts were supposed to accomplish. I wouldn't have bothered to take the time to write a reply if you have no interest in the first place.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I was secretly hoping that they were heading back to Europe because they are disillusioned with the apartheid statehood of Israel and they became disgusted watching Israeli soldiers going to a Palestinian's home with big guns and forcing the family to leave so a Jewish family has a new house to live in. Or they were disgusted by the humiliation checkpoints that Arabs in Israel and in Palestine go through on a daily basis. I am disappointed.

Some of them are.. This is from the book I'm reading, which I mentioned in one of my previous posts (sorry about the messed up size lol):


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Another fantastic book you might want to read is Ted Swedenburg's "Memories of a Revolt." It's a fairly quick and informative read.

I've never heard of it but I will look it up for sure. Thanks!

 

[Tugela]

Have you ever seen the movie “Defamation”?


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You do know that I'm part Jewish myself right?

The error in your logic is assuming that Israel is synonymous with Jewish, but that is not true.

Israel is a state that is using Jewish history and experience for their own ends. Criticism of Israel does NOT constitute anti-Semitic sentiment, even though they might like you to think so.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

You do know that I'm part Jewish myself right?

The error in your logic is assuming that Israel is synonymous with Jewish, but that is not true.

Israel is a state that is using Jewish history and experience for their own ends. Criticism of Israel does NOT constitute anti-Semitic sentiment, even though they might like you to think so.

LOL

I think you didn't check out the movie because none of the above applies to me or the movie.

Let me know what you thought of it after you've watched it!

Synopsis

What is anti-Semitism today, two generations after the Holocaust? In his continuing exploration of modern Israeli life, director Yoav Shamir (Checkpoint, 5 Days, Flipping Out) travels the world in search of the most modern manifestations of the “oldest hatred", and comes up with some startling answers.

In this irreverent quest, he follows American Jewish leaders to the capitals of Europe, as they warn government officials of the growing threat of anti-Semitism, and he tacks on to a class of Israeli high school students on a pilgrimage to Auschwitz.

On his way, Shamir meets controversial historian, Norman Finkelstein, who offers his unpopular views on the manner that anti-Semitism is being used by the Jewish community and especially Israel for political gain. He also joins scholars, Stephen M. Walt and John J. Mearsheimer, while they give a lecture in Israel following the release of their book “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy”, about the un-proportional influence the Israel lobby in Washington enjoys. Yoav visits Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial museum in Jerusalem, the must stop for all world leaders on their visits to Israel. While in Jerusalem, he drops by the house of his grandmother that offers her insight on the issue and declares that she is the “real Jew”.

The film questions our perceptions and terminology when an event proclaimed by some as anti-Semitic is described by others as legitimate criticism of Israel’s government policies. The film walks along the boundary between anti-Zionism, rejecting the notion of a Jewish State, and anti-Semitism, rejecting Jews. Is the former being used to excuse the latter? And is there a difference between today’s anti-Semitism and plain old racism that is affecting all minorities?

Opinions often differ and tempers sometimes flare, but in Defamation we find that one thing is certain - only by understanding their response to anti-Semitism can we really appreciate how Jews today, and especially modern Israelis, respond to the world around them, in New York and in Moscow, in Gaza and Tel Aviv.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Thought I'd add links to download a couple of books mentioned in this thread, if anyone's interested in reading. I think someone did mention wanting to read My Promised Land by Ari Shavit. I haven't read it but here it is, with the book I mentioned:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sradhxqgb2gnivp/My Promised Land.epub



https://www.dropbox.com/s/04lwq3217...thing in Greater Israel - Max Blumenthal.mobi

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vcuswr8c7...thing in Greater Israel - Max Blumenthal.epub

 

[Tugela]

FYI, Arabs are also Semitic, so you could describe the state of Israel as "anti-Semitic" as well

That is the irony of it all - these people probably all have the same ancestors.