HST - how are you planning to vote?

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
Actually, they claimed it was revenue neutral at first, before certain exemptions, then it was to bring in slightly less. Turns out they were scooping up much more.

The feds have given about $1 billion, so far, not the full $1.6. Paying that back over a few years would be no different than adjusting for a slight rise in interest rates with our debt.

My taxes this years are a combination of income, sale taxes and land transfer tax.
Yeah but the $1.6B was built into the budget. And for someone crying foul over the HST, suddenly $1.6B is not a big deal.

Assuming a large chunk of that $200K in taxes is HST, then you are not really paying $200K in taxes. You see, the HST that you "pay" from your business is actually money collected on behalf of the government. So you are not really paying it, your customers are.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
5,114
1,080
113
Upstairs
No, the largest is land transfer tax.

As I said, my business is way down because of the HST.

I asked my accountant her opinion and she said the HST makes her life easier, but not by that much. She was used to GST/PST and with software things went pretty smoothly. The HST benefit to her is a slight saving in time. The fact is she has less work now than before mostly because her customers (like me) are doing less business.
 

Tugela

New member
Oct 26, 2010
1,913
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0
I'll vote as soon as I recieve my voting slip in the mail!

Sneaky of them to make it a mail in vote and then schedule the referendum during a postal strike!! :)
 

Pirate Code

Banned
May 18, 2011
148
0
0
Legitimate sources tell me that there are a lot of film productions on hold right now, waiting to find the results of the HST referendum.

If we are stupid enough to vote against it, we're stupid enough to lose all those jobs. Seriously. All those jobs and support business and 'hollywood north' will soon become a thing of the past.

The fact is, now that our dollar is so much higher, the only thing keeping the film industry going here is the tax advantage. With the HST coming in, they held on and kept things going even though the CDN dollar kept rising. Everything is now hinged on this referendum.

The future of all those jobs and our film industry is going to die with a YES vote.


Please Vote NO. Keep the HST and keep our film industry alive.
 

DavidMR

New member
Mar 27, 2009
872
0
0
Legitimate sources tell me that there are a lot of film productions on hold right now, waiting to find the results of the HST referendum.

If we are stupid enough to vote against it, we're stupid enough to lose all those jobs. Seriously. All those jobs and support business and 'hollywood north' will soon become a thing of the past.
Pirate, I think you know that this type of argument has been used over and over again in the context of BC provincial politics. To anyone whose over about 30, it's got a very familiar ring to it. To be frank, it's not credible, and insults people's intelligence, assuming them to be hopelessly naive, gullible and suggestible. The use of the phrase "Legitimate sources" as a lead in to unsubstantiated rumour is a bit of a dead give away. You really should go back to the PAB and tell them to tighten up the product before sending you out there with your dick in your hand.

If people want serious exchanges on this subject, they may want to follow the #HST tweets on twitter.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
Not going to read the thread but I will say this, voting down the HST will hurt the province of BC and individual tax payers period.

End of story.

And not only that, if one chooses to go that route it's not as if the taxes will disappear, rather we'll go back to the PST/GST 12% taxes we had before.

So whether or not you hate the liberals you really should be voting with your pocketbook on this one.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
I'm voting for Democracy, YES to axe the HST.
Another misguided citizen. Yes means going back to the GST/PST system, has eff all to do with democracy but everything to do with revenge.
 

Horse99

New member
Aug 17, 2006
555
1
0
Vancouver
it personally costs me MORE Money, so I'm voting to void the HST
 

specialty69

Pussy Lover
Aug 17, 2003
194
38
28
46
Vancouver
I am not going to pay extra 7% on my fast food binges therefore F**K the HST. Remember the HST will drop to 10% in 3 Years time. Who knows what stupid things the govt might come up with in 3 years from now.

So Vote "YES" to kill the HST
 

blackcad

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2010
267
267
63
Another misguided citizen. Yes means going back to the GST/PST system, has eff all to do with democracy but everything to do with revenge.
On the contrary...Ingrid's decision is mine as well. It has everything to do with democracy, this is a democratic referendum. I myself am one who is hit very hard by the HST. I am paying far more tax now than before, on all my discretionary spending....which before was only 5% taxed...now 12% and in THREE YEARS ...10%. If you want to label Ingrid as a misguided citizen I suggest you look at your own reflection.
 

Man Mountain

Too Old To Die Young
Oct 29, 2006
3,849
30
0
Vancouver
As I said, my business is way down because of the HST.
And that's really all the justification that you, and anyone in a similar circumstance, needs to make to justify why you would vote to extinguish it.

I asked my accountant her opinion and she said the HST makes her life easier, but not by that much. She was used to GST/PST and with software things went pretty smoothly. The HST benefit to her is a slight saving in time. The fact is she has less work now than before mostly because her customers (like me) are doing less business.
I have a friend who does accounting for a certain company where because of the idiosyncracies of how they balance their books tells me that the HST actually makes his work far more complicated. But he admits that his company is probably an exception and most others would have it easier.

And not only that, if one chooses to go that route it's not as if the taxes will disappear, rather we'll go back to the PST/GST 12% taxes we had before.
But not everything that was taxed was subject to both taxes. And for some of us, that makes a LOT of difference.

it personally costs me MORE Money, so I'm voting to void the HST
I myself am one who is hit very hard by the HST. I am paying far more tax now than before, on all my discretionary spending....which before was only 5% taxed...now 12% and in THREE YEARS ...10%.
Remember the HST will drop to 10% in 3 Years time.
I prefer to say this as "The HST won't drop to 10% until 3 years from now." I know that there is another interim drop planned before then but all of the "pro HST" ads are trying to mislead us with the use of the term "now" when they refer to the 10% HST rate. And how a vote to extinguish the HST is somehow a vote for higher taxes. That is simply untrue. It's a vote to go back to when we were paying lower consumption/service taxes overall. The current rate is a higher tax. Period.

Honestly, I've enjoyed reading the posts of wilde and aznboi9 on the topic in this thread. Because, in my opinion, you guys have actually made more logical and cogent arguments about why we should consider voting to keep the tax than I've seen or heard from all the misleading sound bites and rhetoric that the government's pro HST campaigns have been putting out there.

What it comes down to for me is I have to decide whether I want to keep paying more on all of my bills that were at one time only subject to GST and some PST on a smaller part of those bills for now until a time when I'll only have to pay 10% on all bills and items that are subject to tax. I know that for me, personally, the introduction of the HST actually hit me harder than I was expecting since it was introduced. The problem is the general inflation over the last couple of years also hasn't helped and it's hard to figure how much is actually due to the tax -- but I know that it certainly hasn't helped my situation.

Anyway, I've been weighing the "pro" arguments carefully but I have to admit that I'm leaning towards voting to extinguish.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
On the contrary...Ingrid's decision is mine as well. It has everything to do with democracy, this is a democratic referendum. I myself am one who is hit very hard by the HST. I am paying far more tax now than before, on all my discretionary spending....which before was only 5% taxed...now 12% and in THREE YEARS ...10%. If you want to label Ingrid as a misguided citizen I suggest you look at your own reflection.
Yes, you and Ingrid are exercising your democratic right. Good for you both and I should never have suggested otherwise. I am sorry to hear that you been hit hard by the HST, as have I. My point is that going back to the GST/PST system is far from a guarantee that you will be paying less. The provincial government has built the federal incentives as well as projected revenue from the HST into the budget. If we go back to the PST and revenue falls short of the budget, it will have to be made up somehow. How do you think they will make up that shortfall? By raising tax rates, whether it be personal and/or corporate income tax, PST (or removing exemptions from previously non-taxable items) or whatever. Plus all the transitional work to implement the HST goes down the drain as well.
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,379
3
38
Here Be Monsters
I prefer to say this as "The HST won't drop to 10% until 3 years from now." I know that there is another interim drop planned before then but all of the "pro HST" ads are trying to mislead us with the use of the term "now" when they refer to the 10% HST rate. And how a vote to extinguish the HST is somehow a vote for higher taxes. That is simply untrue. It's a vote to go back to when we were paying lower consumption/service taxes overall. The current rate is a higher tax. Period.
Yes and no. Yes, it's a vote to return to GST/PST which currently is lower than HST. However, it's also a vote to go to lower taxes a year from now and in 2014. As I already mentioned, the 800 million windfall over last year and this year will be given back entirely with the first 1% decrease. Every year after that, we'll be paying less with the HST than what we would be paying with PST/GST; so I think this really is a situation where the long term gain is worth the short term pain.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
Actually I'm quite informed on the issue.

I prefer the old pst/gst sysytem and don't believe claims the HST system will be better for me or our province.

The provinces that have previously adopted the HST system are doing WORSE not better compared to the other provinces.

Tax Impact of B.C.’s HST Debate on
Investment and Competitiveness
This article1 is reprinted with permission from:
Jack M. Mintz
Palmer Chair in Public Policy
School of Public Policy, University of Calgary


If voters kill British Columbia’s Harmonized Sales Tax (HST) in a June referendum, the province’s economy will suffer in the long run. A rejection will spur the rebirth of the provincial retail sales tax, leading to steep increases in the marginal effective tax rates on capital and costs and a corresponding dip in investment and job creation. Should voters decide to keep the HST, B.C. will reduce the tax by two points over the next three years and raise the corporate income tax rate to bridge the revenue gap. This will also negatively impact corporate competitiveness, but since the government has indicated that the hike will be temporary, retaining the HST is the best option for B.C.’s economy.

In the past week, I received a number of requests regarding the tax impact of British Columbia’s recent HST announcement on competitiveness and in comparison to the re-adoption of the PST (“retail sales tax”) if the referendum succeeds. Below, I provide an evaluation regarding a new HST proposal in terms of its impact on B.C.’s cost competitiveness in comparison to the existing system and one in which the HST is replaced by the PST.

The B.C. proposal to reduce the HST rate by two points and raise the corporate income tax rate by two points is far less harmful to the province’s economy than readopting the PST. If the new package helps convince B.C. voters to reject the referendum to extinguish the HST, then this will be quite important to B.C.’s competitiveness.

B.C. Premier Christy Clark’s government has introduced a potentially dramatic tax reform. Should the referendum fail to extinguish the HST, B.C. will reduce its part of the HST rate from seven per cent to six per cent on July 1, 2012 and by a further point on July 1, 2014. The government estimates that each family will see a reduction in sales tax payments equal to $470, more than offsetting the estimated increase of $350 in sales taxes after replacing the PST.

Given the revenue cost of reducing the HST rate, the B.C. government is raising the corporate income tax rate from 10 to 12 per cent for large companies on January 1, 2012. The small business corporate income tax elimination planned for April 1, 2012 is postponed indefinitely. B.C. will also slightly increase tobacco taxes and provide a one-time payment of $175 for each child and senior (the payment is to be covered by contingency funds).

The tax impact of reducing the HST and raising the corporate income tax is to reduce the marginal tax rate on labour but increase it for capital. This is a worrying policy development since B.C. will shift from a tax with less economic cost (the HST) to one that is more harmful to the economy (the corporate tax).2 Nonetheless, the short-run impact of the proposal will have only a slight negative impact on B.C.’s cost competitiveness. Over the long run, the higher corporate tax rate will reduce capital investment, impair technological adaptation and hurt productivity. It will be important for B.C. to reduce the corporate rate back to 10 per cent as soon as the budget balances.

The table below provides estimated marginal effective tax rates on capital and labour for B.C. for the current sales and corporate tax system, the proposed tax reform announced on May 25 if the HST is maintained and the impact if B.C. returns to the PST. The marginal effective tax rate on capital is the annualized value of corporate income, capital and sales taxes on business purchases as a proportion of the pre-tax rate of return on capital. The marginal effective tax rate on labour is the weighted average of personal taxes, employer and employee payroll taxes and sales taxes as a portion of the pre-tax cost of labour faced by B.C. businesses when providing additional hours of work to workers.3 I also compute the marginal tax rate on the cost of doing business – this is an aggregation of taxes on capital and labour, using the assumption that 30 per cent of labour taxes are shifted forward in negotiated labour costs.

Reducing the HST rate from 12 to 10 per cent will lower the marginal effective tax rate on labour by about 1.1 percentage points since workers will have greater purchasing power to buy goods and services with lower tax-inclusive consumer prices. The reduction in labour taxes will have some beneficial impact in encouraging employment and labour supply, although economic studies do show that labour taxes are not as distortionary as taxes on mobile capital.



On the other hand, B.C. is making its corporate income tax system less competitive, especially given the increase in the corporate income tax rate on large businesses. The marginal effective tax rate on capital will rise by 1.5 percentage points with a two-point increase in the corporate income tax rate. The effect of raising corporate taxes in the long run is to reduce capital investment and the adoption of new technologies (which are typically part of new vintages of capital).

Overall, the effect of the proposed changes announced at the end of May by the B.C. government on cost competitiveness is remarkably small in the short run, given our shifting assumptions (30 per cent pass-through of labour taxes). The marginal effective tax rate on costs rises by 0.1 percentage points from 18.5 to 18.6 per cent. The proposed changes will favour labour-intensive industries that benefit most from reductions in taxes on labour (and lower wage costs). However, capital-intensive industries will be worse off.

If the referendum results in the end of the HST, the effect of shifting back to the PST will have a very negative impact on competitiveness. The marginal effective tax rate on capital rises to 28.8 per cent and the marginal effective tax rate on costs rises to 21.8 per cent from 18.5 per cent. As documented elsewhere, this will hurt investment and jobs quite dramatically.

B.C. Finance Minister Kevin Falcon indicated that the corporate tax rate hike will be temporary — the rate would be reduced to 10 per cent when fiscally possible. I do think that it is important for B.C. to return to the 10 per cent corporate rate as quickly as possible when the budget balances. Otherwise, it will be disadvantaged compared to Ontario, Alberta and some other provinces for investment. Further, the revenue increase will likely be eroded as large B.C. businesses shift profits to jurisdictions with lower corporate income tax rates.

Not moving ahead with the planned reduction in the small business tax rate has an ambiguous impact on competitiveness. Although the reduction in small business corporate rates can reduce the cost of investment, it increases a “taxation wall” that impedes small business growth. Further, small business corporate reductions make it easier for those owners who use the corporate form of business organization to avoid paying personal taxes on income shifted into the small corporation.5 For this reason, it is advisable that the B.C. government re-evaluate its small business tax incentives to make them more growth-friendly and less costly in revenue terms.

Overall, the B.C. government’s proposed changes to the HST would not hurt competitiveness in the near term, although a quick reversal of the corporate tax hike on large companies is highly advisable for future growth.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
5,114
1,080
113
Upstairs
Yes, our provincial government doing everything it can to help "families" and the average citizen and the economy.
Read the last sentence carefully. The HST is draining money from consumers to pay for lost revenue from big businesses.
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The report, by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives’ BC Office, examines changes to the overall tax system during the last decade, comparing the total provincial tax rate for households at different income levels. The total tax rate includes provincial income tax, plus MSP premiums and sales, carbon and property taxes.

“Most people probably assume that the wealthy pay a higher tax rate,” says study co-author Seth Klein. “That’s how income taxes work. But when we look at all taxes combined, it’s a different story.” The report’s key findings include:

In 2000, most BC families paid about the same total tax rate, with families in the top 10% and top 1% paying a little more.
By 2010, however, the tax system had become regressive, with the richest 20% of households paying a lower total tax rate than the rest of us.

“A decade of income tax cuts has lined the pockets of the wealthiest British Columbians,” says co-author Marc Lee. Combined, provincial income tax cuts introduced since 2001 deliver an average of $9,000 per year to the richest 10% of BC households, and a whopping $41,000 to the top 1%. In contrast, lower income households received an average tax cut of about $200 per year, and those in middle got just over $1,200.

The study finds that between 2000 and 2010, BC’s tax revenues fell by 1.7% of GDP, representing a loss of $3.4 billion in provincial revenue. “Tax cuts come at a high price,” says co-author Iglika Ivanova. “If we’d kept our tax system the same, we’d have $3.4 billion more to spend on needed public services today.”

The provincial government now relies more heavily on MSP premiums, the carbon tax, and sales taxes for public revenue. These taxes hit lower- and middle-income households harder. British Columbians now contribute more to the provincial treasury in MSP premiums than businesses contribute in provincial corporate income taxes.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
Actually I'm quite informed on the issue.

I prefer the old pst/gst sysytem and don't believe claims the HST system will be better for me or our province.

The provinces that have previously adopted the HST system are doing WORSE not better compared to the other provinces.

From HSTINCANADA.com

"Back in 1997 New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland all implemented HST. While the pre-hst situation between Atlantic Canada, Ontario and British Columbia are quite different, we can look back on how HST has affected these three provinces.

A report by the CD Howe Institute explains that the harmonized says tax led to an increase in capital investment by businesses in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. PST (provincial sales tax) was supposed to be a retail tax; it was supposed to be paid at the consumer level. However, many businesses ended up paying PST on the essentials needed to operate a business, and there was no refund policy or structure in place to correct the issue. Businesses had to come up with a way to make up for the extra expense, which meant raising their prices. This was naturally passed along to the consumer, where once again, PST was paid on the final product.

When comparing the New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfound to other provinces without HST, particularly Prince Edward Island, consumer prices fell approximately 1% in the first year after HST was implemented.

One significant difference between the implementation of HST in these three Atlantic provinces versus Ontario and British Columbia is that in Atlantic Canada, restaurants were already charging PST. This means that HST didn’t cause an immediate jump in price for your favorite Starbucks coffee, but HST in BC and Ontario is a different story. "
 

Pirate Code

Banned
May 18, 2011
148
0
0
Vote how you may, but using 'getting back at the liberals' as the reason for your yes vote is asinine.

It could well be biting off your nose to spite your face.
If you really believe that turning everything around to go back to the gst/pst is going to save us/you money, say so.

I don't have a clue how much it will cost to re-implement the old system, but remember folks, we have to pay for it all.
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
Actually I'm quite informed on the issue.

I prefer the old pst/gst sysytem and don't believe claims the HST system will be better for me or our province.

The provinces that have previously adopted the HST system are doing WORSE not better compared to the other provinces.
Please enlighten us as to why the PST is a better tax than the HST.
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts