Generic List of providers who accept the donation after the session

[Harmony-bc]

The bottom line is I am 5'4". I am fairly strong for a girl, but I am still weaker than your average man. If at the end of the session, how do I force a man to pay me, that doesn't want to? If you pay at the beginning, I feel safer. I don't understand why this topic is still going.

I think Huggzy and Lenny are potential bad dates and neither of you are welcome anywhere near me.

Thank you and have a great day.

 

[storm rider]

I myself have paid in advance for every session I have had...be it the nasty pool party duo with Danika&Kerri a couple years back (though paying in advance for this I truly regret as I got seriously ripped off by the gals....had I paid after I am sure the results would have been different).....every session I enjoy at Sugarland I lay the donation on the night table in the bedroom before my shirt is off and I have never been ripped off or had bad service though there have been a few gals that did not meet the SOPAM service standards of Sugarland (those service levels are damn hard to exceed so it was still good service) and I have had 2 gals take care of me in my home...Heidi Heiss and Franceska...both of whom did not ask nor even expect the donation at the start of the session for 2 reasons...1:Neither of them wanted to start the session that way and thusly bring any type of negative thought into the situation and 2:Both Heidi and Franceska had the mindset of providing excellent service (Heidi even offers a gaurantee for her service....something that is admirable in this business)...in my opinion both Heidi and Franceska are 2 very classy/beautifull gals that really are GFE...in that your time spent with them is total immersion and the gals are open and honest and you feel that they are focussed on you....funny enough I described a session at Sugarland to Franceska and she actually wanted to go there LOL.

This is my opinion and views from enjoying this pastime(I refuse to call pooning a hobby...a hobby is constructive ) in the 2 + years I ave have been doing this....would I pay in advance with an SW....nope....and to be honest I would never pick up a SW.....would I pay in advance for a chancy encounter off CL....nope and if the gal did not like it I would walk.....I pay in advance for the vast majority of my activity...it is nice that 2 of my faves dont expect or want this to be otherwise....but given their stellar service they have no worry about payment

SR

 

[curmudgeon]

This discussion, because the information within is publically accessible (both to those that would use the info for benign purposes, those that would abuse it), is ultimately self-defeating.

The girls, who fear being taken advantage of by those that would abuse the information in this thread, will proactively (or reactively) demand payment up front.

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I have had 2 gals take care of me in my home... both of whom did not ask nor even expect the donation at the start of the session...

...it is nice that 2 of my faves dont expect or want this to be otherwise....but given their stellar service they have no worry about payment

SR

Well we managed to keep the suspense going and Lenny waiting for his list for over ten pages. But the fun can't go on forever, so now you've ended his long wait in anticipation.. And I'm sure your 2 faves are really thankful you chose this specific thread to recommend them.

 

[lenny]

What the hell do you mean by "SWs" in Thailand anyway?

Street Walkers.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?134984-Sweetwalkers-Who-uses-them

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1897

Most services are from girls connected to a bar, or within massage parlours. The reason that you do not have to pay in advance in Thailand is because you will get the shit beat out of you by her protector/manager/pimp if you rip her off. You normally take bar girls back to your place -- so they know where to find you. Massage parlours and the like have security staff, with the same result. Do you not see the difference between that and independent providers here?

Actually in many cases you do have to pay up front in Thailand,
as i have already detailed in this thread. This includes escort
call services and MP`s like the famous Annies of Bangkok. Even
taking out a bar girl requires full payment or a partial fee
called a bar fine to be taken care of first. SWs, OTOH, have
a standard practice of recieving postpayment.

As for SWs knowing where a guys is staying, that won`t do her
any good in a guest friendly hotel that always sides with the
customer. Furthermore, he could change rooms or hotels or
be on a plane the next day, etc, as many travelling businessmen
and holidayers there actually are.

SWs, BTW, are often swooped upon by police and forced to either
pay a 1000 Baht fine or go to the cop shop, while clients are
not bothered at all during these street raids. It should be clear what
side LE there is on; the side of the money & protecting tourism.

SWs have a lot more to lose in any dispute. For example, since "face"
means everything in this country, she cannot risk getting her name or
pic in the public media as this would expose her as being a "bad girl"
in this Buddhist dominant nation. She cannot allow her family, friends,
employers or fellow workers to find out what she does. So attacking
a non paying customer is out of the question.

Additionally, many of these ladies, whether SWs, escorts, bargirls
or MP employees, are from the very poor north regions of the
kingdom where their families live and rely on them. If anything
means more than "face" in Siam, it is the Buddhist ingrained
concepts of and love for family. So there is another very strong
deterent to avoid anything that might put them in jail, such as
what might be involved in trying to get payment out of a non
paying customer.

In this vein of thought we could also speak in detail about the
Thai practice of not making public displays of anger and that many
SWs are single mothers in a part of the world where alimony is not
a requirement of law and there is no welfare system such as we
have in Canada.

So the SWs there, indeed the whole country, is relatively needy,
hence more desperate. Going there is like making a donation to
a charity. Or being like Robin Hood: give not to the rich, but to
the poor.

 

[mistressfreyja]

OK, so now I`m really confused.

What point ARE you arguing? (paying upfront usually happens in Thailand.)

I would love to say that, "Thank-Buddha that they saw you that night, rather than someone abusive."

But, you`re missing the point.....we DO get abused if we don`t demand payment upfront. And you, dear lenny, are promoting that.

Get off of your high-horse. We all already consider you a bad date, IN VANCOUVER ON PERB.

Don`t play games just to get your dick sucked and fucked. Your longevity in this `hobby` will be relying on women who really WILL rip you off.

There ARE some people who do actually advertise themselves, using actual pictures of themselves. Seek them, and pay upfront like any other respectable client.

If not, please don`t come and see me, nor any other woman, WITH THAT ATTITUDE.

I liked you and your posts before this thread. But, you really dug yourself into a hole. And, yet, you continue to rationalize an opinion that could be detrimental to SPs......

What does that make you? A bad date.

Get over your ideal that you are a gift to these women. You sound like a complete schmuck.

Street Walkers.

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?134984-Sweetwalkers-Who-uses-them

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1897



Actually in many cases you do have to pay up front in Thailand,
as i have already detailed in this thread. This includes escort
call services and MP`s like the famous Annies of Bangkok. Even
taking out a bar girl requires full payment or a partial fee
called a bar fine to be taken care of first. SWs, OTOH, have
a standard practice of recieving postpayment.

As for SWs knowing where a guys is staying, that won`t do her
any good in a guest friendly hotel that always sides with the
customer. Furthermore, he could change rooms or hotels or
be on a plane the next day, etc, as many travelling businessmen
and holidayers there actually are.

SWs, BTW, are often swooped upon by police and forced to either
pay a 1000 Baht fine or go to the cop shop, while clients are
not bothered at all during these street raids. It should be clear what
side LE there is on; the side of the money & protecting tourism.

SWs have a lot more to lose in any dispute. For example, since "face"
means everything in this country, she cannot risk getting her name or
pic in the public media as this would expose her as being a "bad girl"
in this Buddhist dominant nation. She cannot allow her family, friends,
employers or fellow workers to find out what she does. So attacking
a non paying customer is out of the question.

Additionally, many of these ladies, whether SWs, escorts, bargirls
or MP employees, are from the very poor north regions of the
kingdom where their families live and rely on them. If anything
means more than "face" in Siam, it is the Buddhist ingrained
concepts of and love for family. So there is another very strong
deterent to avoid anything that might put them in jail, such as
what might be involved in trying to get payment out of a non
paying customer.

In this vein of thought we could also speak in detail about the
Thai practice of not making public displays of anger and that many
SWs are single mothers in a part of the world where alimony is not
a requirement of law and there is no welfare system such as we
have in Canada.

So the SWs there, indeed the whole country, is relatively needy,
hence more desperate. Going there is like making a donation to
a charity. Or being like Robin Hood: give not to the rich, but to
the poor.

 

[lenny]

If you are worried about being ripped off, maybe you should not be seeing SP's off of CL at 2 in the morning. Stupid is what stupid does.

What's there to worry about if you pay her after? I agree, it would be risky to pay cash to a total stranger off of CL you know nothing about, in advance of services that you may or may not recieve. That would be true for 2 p.m. as well, although i'd think the 2 a.m. crowd would have more thieves, drunks, druggies, etc. If this thread can get that through to one guy and spare one CL ripoff from happening to him because he required postpayment, then it may be worth it.

 

[mistressfreyja]

Once edited.....

Just preserving facts. (wish I had copied your previous post.)

You are on my shit-list.

Good thing that you are 'looking out for the CL ripoffs' on PERB. We are abundant.

What's there to worry about if you pay her after? I agree, it would be risky to pay cash to a total stranger off of CL you know nothing about, in advance of services that you may or may not recieve. That would be true for 2 p.m. as well, although i'd think the 2 a.m. crowd would have more thieves, drunks, druggies, etc. If this thread can get that through to one guy and spare one CL ripoff from happening to him because he required postpayment, then it may be worth it.

 

[mistressfreyja]

PS: Lenny....

We are ALL waiting for your actual argument to make itself known.

Here we are at 12 pages.

You have recinded saying that women in Thailand actually do ask for money upfront.

You have said that it is a dangerous game for them.

You have said that CL girls have clearly ripped you off.

Can you please stop lumping all SPs in any country, with different motives, into ONE CATEGORY?

Definition of HYPOCRITE.

We SPs could all be so unlucky as to encounter a John such as yourself, that really is such a dick. Yet, you try and play yourself off as our savior. Disgusting and insulting.

I like you less and less, the more I read your posts.

I would love to discuss this further, with you in bondage, and me with a single tail.

Kind regards, until then!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

So the SWs there, indeed the whole country, is relatively needy, hence more desperate. Going there is like making a donation to a charity. Or being like Robin Hood: give not to the rich, but to the poor.

whoa there cowboy.

I think you're a bit confused as to the definition of a charitable donation. It doesn't usually come with the expectation of a blowjob. Certainly not after its completion either. Whatever fantasy, illusion or denial your mind creates in order to justify what you do and seriously make such a delusional comparison about it, is your business. But do you actually think any of us will buy any of that?!

Charitable donation, Lenny? Robin Hood, Lenny?? Give me a f**** break!


Here's a reality newsflash, Lenny. I think we generally try not to be judgmental of those who take part in sex tourism in 3rd world countries but there's a limit and you've definitely crossed it at this point, so I'm going to tell you what I think. As we're all very aware, your motivation is paying as little as you can for as much as you can get. So you go to Thailand because for you and other foreigners, it's ridiculously cheap. You know why it's cheap, Lenny...you've posted about it at length.

Poverty.
Desperation.
Lack of options.


Going to Thailand and taking advantage of how cheap it is, DOESN'T make you some sort of savior, rescuer, philanthropist or Robin Hood, Lenny. It makes you a self-centered opportunist, it makes you unethical and it means you're partly responsible for making pimps rich on these women's back. It makes you partly responsible for keeping these women powerless, unempowered & trapped in survival sex work.


You have a lot of nerve to try to pass it off as some kind of good, charitable deed.

I would love to discuss this further, with you in bondage, and me with a single tail.

Kind regards, until then!

Can I watch?

 

[lenny]

I think you're a bit confused as to the definition of a charitable donation. It doesn't usually come with the expectation of a blowjob.

In the English language, dear, it's called a simile. It no more meant going there is a literal donation to a charity than it means i am Robin Hood. If he ever lived, i'd have to be quite old to be him, don't you think?

""The simile says there is a likeness and leaves it to us to figure out some common feature or features;" http://grammar.about.com/od/rs/g/simileterm.htm

It seems you haven't figured that out yet.

Charitable donation, Lenny? Robin Hood, Lenny?? Give me a f**** break!

 

[lenny]

As we're all very aware, your motivation is paying as little as you can for as much as you can get.

There is some truth to that, just as any smart bargain shopper does the same.
OTOH i often pay more than market prices, have a rep for being kind, generous,
even giving out loans, freebies, etc, so girls flock to me.

So you go to Thailand because for you and other foreigners, it's ridiculously cheap.

Only if one can stay long enough to offset the high costs of travelling, including
airfare, accomodations, etc, or one is already going there for business anyway,
or living there.

Going to Thailand and taking advantage of how cheap it is, DOESN'T make you some sort of savior, rescuer, philanthropist or Robin Hood, Lenny. It makes you a self-centered opportunist,

Going there because the country is poor has been a factor i've considered in going to Siam.
One does not recieve BJ's from all the poor service industries one supports while in the country.
I've also considered which SWs to see, such as single mothers supporting a small child. The fact
that i'm largely self-centered does not take away from facts such as these. Like Robin Hood with
all his riches, which he acquired through robbery, i have a choice whether to dispense them back
to the rich SP's or the poor SP's. I choose the latter.

it makes you unethical and it means you're partly responsible for making pimps rich on these women's back. It makes you partly responsible for keeping these women powerless, unempowered & trapped in survival sex work.

I don't see any reason to think these women are less powerful or more trapped than you. Nor have
i ever seen any evidence that SW TGs i've been with are anything but 100% independent workers,
free from any influence by pimps. In fact some of them have expressed that they prefer the free-
dom of being an SW versus being tied up as a bargirl employee, or that they find bars too noisy.
Some are college students who want some extra spending cash to buy the latest brand name
clothes or gadgets. Many of them work a day job like a hairdresser or department store worker.

You have a lot of nerve to try to pass it off as some kind of good, charitable deed.

Maybe we should just chalk this up to your confusion about similies.

Given the choice between supporting Western SP's of a similar rate of pay
to those of Thailand, i'm sure some would feel that patronizing the much
poorer country is the better ethical choice. OTOH every second i spend with
the lowest paid and highest at risk SP group in Canada, DTES SWs, means
they are not with a guy like Pickton.

And BTW, every SP in this thread who reconsiders her personal safety and
improves it {as opposed, for example, to those who'd attack a guy taking the
donation on the table}, and is spared being injured or worse, then maybe the
thread will have been an influence in saving something of infinite worth.
Compared to a few pieces of paper, which is nothing.

Maybe some SP's will also wise up and stop giving services to regulars
without prepayment, as there are known cases where this has failed.

 

[huggzy]

How many well reviewed ladies are there? Many are on a do not review list. Some of these ladies used to be well reviewed and no longer have the same level of service but still have a solid reputation based on the past.

I completely understand why women insist on payment up front and from my own personal experience I can see where payment after could be preferable. But it's pretty simple why men should pay in advance...because that is the requirement of most ladies...bottom line. Whether it is a reasonable requirement or not is somewhat irrelevant. Obviously it is the norm and the few who take issue with it should look for someone who is OK with payment after the session. It's definitely not a good idea to try to coerce an escort into changing this requirement.

I don't think anyone can logically argue against this statement.

Apparently though there are sp's and their lapdogs here that have a problem with the clients who are looking for these sp's who take payment after the fact. I have a problem with these people trying to shut these clients down from asking legitimate questions about what they are seeking.

 

[huggzy]

Isn't that why you should go to well reviewed ladies? This isn't a typical business transaction, you're smarter than that. Yes there are girls who will rip guys off and vice versa................it's the reality of the world we live in.

Really?? You think that the reviews on this and other boards are completely reliable and trustworthy and not subject to manipulation by the sp's that dominate and advertise on those boards? I think you're smarter than that.

The reality is that clients don't have to choose to live in the reality that you choose too. If I client wants to mitigate the chance that he might get ripped off in a transaction then how can you fault him for that?

Lenny was trying to get information on sp's from this this review board. Turns out that this board isn't too interested in allowing him to seek out people that might cater to his preferences.

 

[lenny]

The bottom line is I am 5'4". I am fairly strong for a girl, but I am still weaker than your average man. If at the end of the session, how do I force a man to pay me, that doesn't want to? If you pay at the beginning,

I feel safer.

What happens if the guy feels robbed because he didn't feel like he got what was agreed to?
And then he demands repayment, or else he is going to go find it, or take something else of
yours of value as compensation? You might end up losing some things of much more value than
a few hundred bucks.

Personally i have always paid what was agreed to, even if the service is awful, as i am a man
of my word, but there are many guys out there that wouldn't put up with it.

What is of much more concern to me is you posting such info, which seems to imply you are all
alone, which might attract violent sorts, and i'm wondering what protection you have to your
personal safety. No value can be put on that, as it is priceless compared to a few lousy dollars.

 

[huggzy]

The bottom line is I am 5'4". I am fairly strong for a girl, but I am still weaker than your average man. If at the end of the session, how do I force a man to pay me, that doesn't want to? If you pay at the beginning, I feel safer. I don't understand why this topic is still going.

I think Huggzy and Lenny are potential bad dates and neither of you are welcome anywhere near me.

Thank you and have a great day.

Really...I'd be a potential bad date because I'm arguing about a client's right to seek information about sp's, and argue the merits of a client seeking out sp's who don't require payment up front?

Why would Lenny potentially be a bad date any more than you are? The logic goes both ways? He is seeking the exact same thing that you are demanding - control over the transaction until after the date.

And what does your physical size have anything to do with this, unless you're implying that you'd allow yourself to get into some kind of physical confrontation if you and your client had a disagreement. This is your biggest problem right here. You're of the mindset that you'd defend your so-called "right" to either collect or keep the cash payment with physical force - and that is what is dangerous to you.

Guess what Harmony - if a guy is prepared to physically confront you for whatever reason, he's going to do it whether you've collected payment already or not. It would be your stupidity in thinking its worth fighting for that makes things dangerous for you.

It's your mindset that makes things dangerous. And that is why the guys who won't physically confront an sp end up getting ripped off by sps...the guys who don't give a shit about getting into it physically with an sp are the ones who end up getting their money back.

You asked "If at the end of the session, how do I force a man to pay me, that doesn't want to?". The answer is, you don't "force" anyone to pay. No business can legally "force" anyone to pay for anything unless they get a court decision. The problem you have is that your chosen profession isn't entirely legal, so the court option isn't available to you.

 

[myselftheother]

Talk about beating a dead horse! This is starting to become a state of an undignity being done to the said dead horse....

Ladies, first of all, I've paid before and after and it never really had much of an impact on service levels, except for a few times when I first started in this hobby/lifestyle and got taken for a ride. R&T indies that work out of their own apartment usually get paid after, indie Sp's before....seems the way it goes, IMHO.

Lenny, you're a fool. Firstly for arguing with women, secondly for painting yourself as Robin Hood, a metaphor that may be more akin to the Sherrif of Nottingham, exploiting what you can to only your benefit by going to Thailand and using these girls. Are they of age? You're not diddling kids overthere, are you?

 

[Pillowtalk]

Talk about beating a dead horse! This is starting to become a state of an undignity being done to the said dead horse....

Ladies, first of all, I've paid before and after and it never really had much of an impact on service levels, except for a few times when I first started in this hobby/lifestyle and got taken for a ride. R&T indies that work out of their own apartment usually get paid after, indie Sp's before....seems the way it goes, IMHO.

Lenny, you're a fool. Firstly for arguing with women, secondly for painting yourself as Robin Hood, a metaphor that may be more akin to the Sherrif of Nottingham, exploiting what you can to only your benefit by going to Thailand and using these girls. Are they of age? You're not diddling kids overthere, are you?

These guys who seem to demand payment after just seem so hostile. Whatever happened to this supposedly being fun after all. The anger, resentment, and confrontational attitude is what makes lenny and huggzy "bad date" material, not just being asses seeking to share info about the sps they can help rip off because they accept post payment.

lenny mentioned "asking once". Well, he should not be asking at all, knowing what the standard is which is prepayment. If he sees someone offstreet, with a website, he already knows the policy is present payment on arrival. asking to be an exception because she can be assured he is trustworthy or should have a better sense of people is what is so offensive to many sps I think. The refusal to accept this reality is leading to some contradictory posts, and most recently the age old defense of insult as a response to a legitimate question/comment by msbijou lol.

I think the hole these two have dug for themselves is deep enough. Seriously, if they can be part of a review board, and have a history of seeing multiple sps, and still manage to claim their inability to avoid getting ripped off, then I think we should just pity them because they truly are the exception to the rule. This insistence on postpayment? Well, the result is their options are extremely limited and they will end up with the desperate few who have no standards and no options. Really wonderful way to spend your time, in an experience that is supposedly about pleasure, is to create such an environment of distrust, deceit (implying they won't pay the agreed amount even after the session) and degradation (forcing their demand to post payment on the vulnerable ones with little choice in the matter). Really, it says a lot about these 2, no wonder these sps are personally blacklisting them. The surprising thing is they are actually surprised by this? That is the result of preying only on the desperate -- not accustomed to the actions of sps who can make personal choices on who they see.

 

[huggzy]

These guys who seem to demand payment after just seem so hostile. Whatever happened to this supposedly being fun after all. The anger, resentment, and confrontational attitude is what makes lenny and huggzy "bad date" material, not just being asses seeking to share info about the sps they can help rip off because they accept post payment.

lenny mentioned "asking once". Well, he should not be asking at all, knowing what the standard is which is prepayment. If he sees someone offstreet, with a website, he already knows the policy is present payment on arrival. asking to be an exception because she can be assured he is trustworthy or should have a better sense of people is what is so offensive to many sps I think. The refusal to accept this reality is leading to some contradictory posts, and most recently the age old defense of insult as a response to a legitimate question/comment by msbijou lol.

I think the hole these two have dug for themselves is deep enough. Seriously, if they can be part of a review board, and have a history of seeing multiple sps, and still manage to claim their inability to get ripped off, then I think we should just pity them because they truly are the exception to the rule. This insistence on postpayment? Well, the result is their options are extremely limited and they will end up with the desperate few who have no standards and no options. Really wonderful way to spend your time, in an experience that is supposedly about pleasure, is to create such an environment of distrust, deceit (implying they won't pay the agreed amount even after the session) and degradation (forcing their demand to post payment on the vulnerable ones with little choice in the matter). Really, it says a lot about these 2, no wonder these sps are personally blacklisting them. The surprising thing is they are actually surprised by this? That is the result of preying only on the desperate -- not accustomed to the actions of sps who can make personal choices on who they see.

Your logic is so flawed its ridiculous.

Any guy with a handle on this board could still contact any woman anytime and set up a date without being on some so-called blacklist due to what they post on a review board BECAUSE OF ANONYMITY. You're absolutely clueless if you think that just by posting their opinion on here limits their options.

Also, where have I told you, or any other sp, how to run their business? You're a fucking tool. Do what you want...just don't stymie a guy for asking for information.

A client being ripped off makes that guy an exception to the rule, huh? WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK "REVIEW BOARDS" EXIST TO BEGIN WITH?

And who is "insisting" that you, or any other SP, should accept payment afterwards?? I don't give a fuck when you decide to ask for payment. But I do like ladies who do accept payment afterwards. Why the fuck does that make me a bad person?

Who is suggesting they we are "surprised" that there are women who don't like this position?!?!? No one is. But guys do get angry, resentful, and confrontational on a review board when cunts like you try to force them from even being able to ask a question.

 

[Pillowtalk]

.

A client being ripped off makes that guy an exception to the rule, huh? WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK "REVIEW BOARDS" EXIST TO BEGIN WITH?

.

I said guys who belong to review boards in order to avoid rip offs yet still claim to get ripped off or are worried about it are the exception to the rule. Apparently, in spite of belonging to this site, you still manage to worry about getting ripped off? Yet no one else who actually uses the site, reviews, and a little common sense does?

No wonder you have so much trouble. You cannot read.

Nobody said you can't ask a question: the dificulty seems to be you don't like the answer. And your post, like you, filled with confrontation, hositility and bitterness. Don't think that you can hide that even if you do not use your handle to book, or that no one knows who you are out there. Hostility and contempt oozes out of you.