Why is North Korea testing nukes anyway?

[Jodie]

HEY WORLD! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!

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[gravitas]

HEY WORLD! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!

I could watch that clip over and over again since its probably pretty damn close to reality. That sawed off fucker is just out to make a name for himself along side the other wack jobs like chavez and mahmoud

 

[FuZzYknUckLeS]

The theory that this is about a reclusive leader trying to get attention is somewhat out to lunch, dontcha think?

I believe they're testing nukes for three reasons:

1 - The obvious reason - they want to know if the things actually work.
2 - The best offense is a good defense. They don't want to be the next Iraq. Bush did include them specifically in his 'axis of evil' speech, along with Iraq and Iran.
3 - They want handouts. This is why they are continually trying to get direct talks with the U.S. instead of going through the multi-nation talks. Look what Bush gave to Pakistan once they bent over for him. DPRK want a piece of that pie.

Quite honestly, IDK what all the fuss is about. They want what at least 7 other countries already have, including the U.S. You don't see the Yanks destroying the nukes that they have, and it's not okay for others to acquire them. Typical American two-sided-coin politics in action. I'm fuckin' sick of it, as are most others around the world.

ps: grav...don't be dissin' Chavez man! He's a FuZz-approved world leader!

 

[FuZzYknUckLeS]

Don't forget the most important part of this equation.
There is still no concrete evidence that a nuke was actually tested.
All they have is N. Korea's announcement and some wimpy seismic activity, which could just as easily been caused by hi levels of TNT.
Kim-Jong-Illin' could be faking!

 

[luckydog71]

It should not surprise you FK that I do not subscribe to your theory that it is all Bush's fault. To believe your theory would mean you would have to believe that North Korea developed the nuke in 5 short years. I believe they had a nuke program long before W came to office.

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

The world is definitely dividing into 2 major camps and it is possible we could see a major eruption. It is very possible North Korea or Iran could provide a bomb to a terrorist organization. The terrorist detonate the bomb in the U.S. If that happens you know the US will retaliate against whoever they think is responsible. No proof will be required, if there are 100,000 Americans killed in the streets of their home town. The reaction will be quick, the B1s will be loaded and airborne before the nuclear cloud has disapated.

There seems to be a large group of countries who believe they can be neutral. I do not support Ws approach “you are with us or you are against us”, but those who want to be neutral are not part of the solution.

Bush only has 2 years left, it is possible but not likely something will happen on his watch. However if the next president is seen by our enemies as being weak, watch out.

 

[Horse99]

We should let China worry about them....it's just too bad their population is starving.....

 

[westwoody]

You don't see the Yanks destroying the nukes that they have

Actually they have destroyed thousands of their own, and have destroyed thousands of nuclear devices belonging to Russia and the former republics of the USSR. Nuclear weapons have a very definite shelf life, measured in months.

 

[wilde]

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

Pretty quick to point the fingers there LG. Don't suppose you have any proof, do you?

.

 

[flexxx]

It should not surprise you FK that I do not subscribe to your theory that it is all Bush's fault. To believe your theory would mean you would have to believe that North Korea developed the nuke in 5 short years. I believe they had a nuke program long before W came to office.

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

The world is definitely dividing into 2 major camps and it is possible we could see a major eruption. It is very possible North Korea or Iran could provide a bomb to a terrorist organization. The terrorist detonate the bomb in the U.S. If that happens you know the US will retaliate against whoever they think is responsible. No proof will be required, if there are 100,000 Americans killed in the streets of their home town. The reaction will be quick, the B1s will be loaded and airborne before the nuclear cloud has disapated.

There seems to be a large group of countries who believe they can be neutral. I do not support Ws approach “you are with us or you are against us”, but those who want to be neutral are not part of the solution.

Bush only has 2 years left, it is possible but not likely something will happen on his watch. However if the next president is seen by our enemies as being weak, watch out.

Of course LG has no proof Wilde. But the U.S. will make up anything to create a pretext to attack those they see as a threat. I'm sure LG realizes that China is the biggest obstacle and threat to continued US global hegemony. Slowly, day by day, the U.S.'s economic stability is being eroded by their addiction to Chinese imports. The U.S. seems to be unable to stem the outflow of their capital as they continue to incurr record current account deficits quarter after quarter while the Chinese record record surpluses. Unfortunately for the U.S., there is no immediate solution to this dire problem. The entire global balance is shifting while their president is playing with his toy soldiers.

I wish it wasn't so, I had always been a fan of the U.S. and my father had always told me what was good for the U.S.A was also good for Canada and vice versa. I feel like i'm on a train that is about to be in a big wreck...maybe the next guy...after two more years of idiocy...can get us all back on track. I just hope that LG's and everyone elses luck doesnt run out before then.

 

[OTBn]

HEY WORLD! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!

That’s it? – with all your degrees I’m somewhat surprised you’d subscribe to such a simplistic summation.

It should not surprise you FK that I do not subscribe to your theory that it is all Bush's fault. To believe your theory would mean you would have to believe that North Korea developed the nuke in 5 short years. I believe they had a nuke program long before W came to office.

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

The world is definitely dividing into 2 major camps and it is possible we could see a major eruption. It is very possible North Korea or Iran could provide a bomb to a terrorist organization. The terrorist detonate the bomb in the U.S. If that happens you know the US will retaliate against whoever they think is responsible. No proof will be required, if there are 100,000 Americans killed in the streets of their home town. The reaction will be quick, the B1s will be loaded and airborne before the nuclear cloud has disapated

China aiding and abetting North Korea? Luckydog, are you sure… what about those wascally Russians?

The “possibility” of supplying nukes to terrorists – gee where have we seen that trump card played before?

Bush’s fault?… well… ya, it is:

- through protracted difficult diplomatic negotiations, the Clinton admin had the North Korean nuclear ambitions hemmed in… under control! Clinton had a commitment against targeting non-nuclear states with nuclear weapons; clearly an incentive for a non-nuclear North Korea not to join the nuclear club.

- with the Shrub just weeks into office, the new sheriff in town, casts off all the previous efforts of the Clinton admin… harsh rhetoric and intimidation becomes the order of the day. Bush rejects the South Korean détente strategy towards continued negotiation with North Korea… instead, we get a ramp up of the U.S. “Star Wars” missile shield spending. Clearly, the Bush admin is still in a cold war mentality.

- then we have 9/11 and shortly after Bush comes forward with the infamous ‘Axis of Evil” speech labeling North Korea as a member. More significantly we have Bush sending the U.S. Congress the NPR (“nuclear posture review”) laying out the future U.S. strategy for deploying nuclear weapons… leaked documents show North Korea was listed as a potential target for U.S. nuclear weapons.

- should we be surprised that North Korea might think the best way to protect itself against the cowboy Bush’s unilateralist policies and invasion threats would be to enter into a little nuclear posturing of its own?​

Instead of the Bush admin continuing on with a working diplomatic path laid out by Clinton, one supported by the South Koreans, we had instead a neo-con driven agenda that concentrated on the least dangerous of its so-called “Axis of Evil”… Iraq… totally ignoring any diplomatic options with the North Koreans. What a plan!

 

[georgebushmoron]

It should not surprise you FK that I do not subscribe to your theory that it is all Bush's fault.

Well it's not Bush's fault, but the estrangement policy the Bush administration has had against N.K. from the outset had set back years of work by South Korea to integrate the North into the Far East as a productive member nation of that area. Had this work be allowed to continue, the N.K economy would have been integrated into S.K much like Canada's to the USA. Indeed, when Bush had a meeting with the S.K. president just before he announced N.K as a member of the Axis of Evil, the S.K president had left Washington ashen-faced. Many speculated that the S.K president was horrified at the prospect of what was to come out of Washington and the future that lay ahead which posed great risk to the welfare of S.Koreans. And of course, what was feared came true when Bush gave his Axis of Evil speech. S.Koreans marked that day with utter dismay.

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

It's possible what you say, but unlikely. Every nation has the sovereign right to conduct nuke tests within its own borders, and countries as powerful as China would get away with it without international condemnation. China doesn't need N.K. to do this for them.

It is very possible North Korea or Iran could provide a bomb to a terrorist organization. The terrorist detonate the bomb in the U.S. If that happens you know the US will retaliate against whoever they think is responsible.

Here is where I agree wholeheartedly with you. This is the real danger with these things, not N.K itself sending a missile.

 

[georgebushmoron]

NK is producing these tests now because winter is arriving. NK is very cold and the population is starving. The tests are an attention getting tool to leverage economic aid, as they have no other tool to do so. Whether or not they will be successful in doing so remains to be seen.

It is in American interests ultimately to keep the NK regime in place. Without it, no rationale can be put forth to SK to keep American bases and troops on the peninsula. The US wants troops on the Far Eastern mainland because China is America's #1 adversary. China plays into this because it too sees NK as a strategic advantage, as NK is ideologically similar and would welcome Chinese troops under the right conditions.... aside from the fact that a regime collapse would cause millions of refugees on the Chinese border.

All this nuke shit and the corresponding responses are largely political play which will ultimately result in no change in strategic advantage for any party. It's simply the same zero-sum game started by NK every winter and the rest just play along as usual.

 

[Jodie]

The theory that this is about a reclusive leader trying to get attention is somewhat out to lunch, dontcha think?

Absolutely, I was actually just being facetious. But despite my best attempt at humour, I've inadvertently managed to start yet another controversial political thread! Ah well, should be an interesting read...

 

[dirtydan]

I could watch that clip over and over again since its probably pretty damn close to reality. That sawed off fucker is just out to make a name for himself along side the other wack jobs like chavez and mahmoud

What was Venezeula (sp?) like before Chavez?

 

[dirtydan]

It should not surprise you FK that I do not subscribe to your theory that it is all Bush's fault. To believe your theory would mean you would have to believe that North Korea developed the nuke in 5 short years. I believe they had a nuke program long before W came to office.

While it's not all Bush's fault he is, obviously, the guy who is presently sitting in the Oval Office. He's got to deal with the situation. And it is, obviously, a situation made worse by his idiotic "Axis of Evil" bullshit.

It is possible that China is actually supporting these tests and for world consumption is showing their displeasure. There is no way China could perform the tests inside Chnia, but they would benefit greatly from the advances made in the North Korea tests.

What advances? The nuke test in NK is widely thought to be have been of a low yield. Perhaps much smaller than the yields the US atomic bombs used over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The world is definitely dividing into 2 major camps and it is possible we could see a major eruption.

Creating two major camps is usually the goal of those who preach silly shit like "if you're not for us then you're against us." Gees why do the Republicans come to mind?

It is very possible North Korea or Iran could provide a bomb to a terrorist organization. The terrorist detonate the bomb in the U.S.

LD, terrorists interested in such really don't need to call on North Korea or Iran. There has been missing nuke weapons or parts for them for a good 30-40 years, and I'm not referring to those missing from accidents.

If that happens you know the US will retaliate against whoever they think is responsible. No proof will be required, if there are 100,000 Americans killed in the streets of their home town. The reaction will be quick, the B1s will be loaded and airborne before the nuclear cloud has disapated.

Careful, that is a Republican wet dream.

There seems to be a large group of countries who believe they can be neutral. I do not support Ws approach “you are with us or you are against us”, but those who want to be neutral are not part of the solution.

That doesn't make sense. I suggest to you that you're use of "neutrals" is skewing your view of the world. See them as moderates and not as countries wholly neutral.

Bush only has 2 years left, it is possible but not likely something will happen on his watch. However if the next president is seen by our enemies as being weak, watch out.

So then what? Have a president that starts unnecessary wars just prove how manly he is? Seems to me the cliche of "been there, done that" aptly applies to the US already.

 

[Cock Throppled]

"2 - The best offense is a good defense. They don't want to be the next Iraq. Bush did include them specifically in his 'axis of evil' speech, along with Iraq and Iran."

--I agree. Iraq pretended to have WMD, and that did not shield them from being invaded. Threats only work if you really do have the bomb, which is reason for the recent crying atom by Iran and DPRK.

I think there is a good chance they are faking it ( and I have lots of experience with faking things) just to decrease the chances of invasion.

 

[luckydog71]

While it's not all Bush's fault he is, obviously, the guy who is presently sitting in the Oval Office. He's got to deal with the situation. And it is, obviously,...

DD - I agree with what you are saying, he is the guy in the decision seat. He is the guy who assesses the situation and determines what to do next.

He also need to take responsibility for the things that go wrong and can take credit for the things that go right.....

Iraq war - went wrong.... some bad strategic decisions... some miscalculations on the reaction from the RoW.

Afghanistan - mostly positive. Achieve the main objective to run the Taliban into hiding. Still wish he had taken out OBL.

The economy - mostly good the DOW hit 12000; the unemployment is way below 5%. Tax cuts have produced the largest federal tax revenue ever.

Immigration - horrible. no action and the situation is worse than it has ever been.

Trade deficit - pathetic. Our trade deficit can not continue at this pace. Our international debt is out of control.

For the first 4 years of his presidency I thought he could become another Reagan or Roosevelt. But now I do not think so. He will most likely be grouped in with the mediocre presidence Bush 41; Clinton; Ford. If he is not careful he will be compared to Jimmy Carter, the most ineffective president of modern times.

 

[westwoody]

I think there is a good chance they are faking it ( and I have lots of experience with faking things) just to decrease the chances of invasion.

I am surprised the US or Japan haven't been taking air samples to detect fission-fusion byproducts. If some were found there would be less doubt. The constant threat of invasion is how NK keeps its populace in line. So it may have been as much for the home audience as the foreign one.
There have been frequent rumours of coup attempts in NK. Bush may just be waiting Kim out. A coup could eliminate Kim at no cost to America. I am sure that many NK citizens would love to reunite with the south!

 

[Ilovethemall]

they have

So far no radioactive material has been found....perhaps Kim Jong's viagra failed him and he only had a little explosion?

 

[wilde]

The economy - mostly good the DOW hit 12000; the unemployment is way below 5%. Tax cuts have produced the largest federal tax revenue ever.

Immigration - horrible. no action and the situation is worse than it has ever been.

Trade deficit - pathetic. Our trade deficit can not continue at this pace. Our international debt is out of control.

Blame the Chinese, why don't you?

.