Why Canadian wages never seem to go up 🤔

[Relax10]

Douglas Todd: Why Canadian wages never seem to go up
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-why-canadian-wages-never-seem-to-go-up


Let's be clear this thread is not intended to be a complain about providers raises their prices. Please don't take it there. This is a damning article on the state of wage, immigration, GDP and how it intertwines. The rising housing costs vs wage increases not even close to the same level of rise is a big part of what's happening in many major cities around the world. From HK to Vancouver, San Francisco to Sydney and so on......I know complaining but nothing gets done about it. I'm not a global finance expert but it doesn't take a genius to realize if things keeps going this way there will be a major crash/chaos beyond the homeless, housing and economic issues we face now. Also keep in mind I am not going into a political party vs another debate despite it being a major factor. I don't care who's in office as long as they can actually do better for the whole and isn't some turd. This was a huge debate at lunch with 20+ people arguing this matter. Curious to get thoughts from the folks on here.


This is quite the article. I've cliff noted some important quotes from the article. Read the full article for the entire context.


....................................................
"The chart in Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland’s budget quietly acknowledges a forecast by the OECD, a club of mostly wealthy nations, that Canada will likely come in dead last in the next four decades in regard to GDP growth per capita."
...............................................
"But more than a few people suggest they are doing the opposite. Why, when the country’s GDP is expanding, have individual Canadians not been getting ahead? Why is their wage growth projected to lag so far behind citizens of other nations? And why are millennials taking the brunt of it?"
..............................................
“Past generations of young Canadians entering the workforce could look forward to favourable tailwinds lifting real incomes during their working lives. That’s no longer the case,” he said.'
..........................................
The Liberals’ commitment to record immigration targets focuses mostly “on the benefits immigrants provide to older Canadians,” Punwasi said, including in the form of “strong housing demand and tax revenues.”
...............................................
As it is, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s economic plan relies on increasingly record-high immigration counts — of 432,000 in 2022, 447,000 in 2023, and 451,000 in 2024. That compares to 250,000 when the Liberals were first elected.

These targets, far higher than those in the U.S. or almost anywhere else, will impact economic equity in Canada, Wright says. “The evidence is very strong that the demographic group most adversely affected by higher immigration is the previous cohort of immigrants.”

That’s in part because the largest group of immigrants is disproportionately those between 25 and 40 years old, which is the same cohort as the already large baby-boom echo, also known as millennials.

An increase in immigration at this time amplifies the challenges millennials are having, particularly in the housing market, Wright says. “So, even if there is a valid argument for raising immigration levels, this is being done approximately 10 years prematurely.”

 

[overdone]

the other thing you don't mention is their bullshit about emissions

if we didn't have moronic immigration policies, just to be able to increase the false economy of consumption

we also wouldn't have the increase in emissions

just take the simpletons in BC who think they're so fucking green

in the last 20 years the province has added a million people

if adding all those people is so great, like you say why is everything so shitty, lol

why is it on the news daily, weekly, yearly, for the last 15 years, it clearly isn't making things better

even Hillary Clinton was musing about countries in the west being able to absorb the ridiculous open borders policies in the west

the only thing we should have been doing is putting policies in place that increased our birthrate to 2

with targeted immigration which the environment and economy could actually absorb, integrate, assimilate

which is the exact opposite of what our idiot politicians and special interest groups have been pushing in their agendas

 

[Gaius_Baltar]

the other thing you don't mention is their bullshit about emissions

if we didn't have moronic immigration policies, just to be able to increase the false economy of consumption

we also wouldn't have the increase in emissions

just take the simpletons in BC who think they're so fucking green

in the last 20 years the province has added a million people

if adding all those people is so great, like you say why is everything so shitty, lol

why is it on the news daily, weekly, yearly, for the last 15 years, it clearly isn't making things better

even Hillary Clinton was musing about countries in the west being able to absorb the ridiculous open borders policies in the west

the only thing we should have been doing is putting policies in place that increased our birthrate to 2

with targeted immigration which the environment and economy could actually absorb, integrate, assimilate

which is the exact opposite of what our idiot politicians and special interest groups have been pushing in their agendas

There are only 80 Canadians aged 15-24 for every 100 aged 55-64 now. In the 60's that ratio was 200 to 100. Even if the birth rate goes to 3 it's not going to make a difference...even immigration is not going to be able to bridge the gap.

It's funny how the most anti immigration Canadians are also the ones that are against unions, free healthcare, affordable day care or anything else that could have increased the birth rate. It will also be these Canadians that are gonna bitch and moan the loudest when they're 75 and being treated by a filipina nurse with an accent and wondering what happened to all the Canadian born ones.

 

[80watts]

I think that most people don't understand economics vs. human factor.
Most young people are looking for higher paying jobs, without having to work for it. or spend long hours doing it or they can't find them. University or College grads go out into the workforce, and employers demand 2-3 years experience before they even look at or hire them. To pay the rent they take min wage jobs. Canada is a resource based economy, transitioning to data field/high technology, while manufacturing/trades are not vibrant enough. Some sectors like house building and construction trades boom in areas of high development. But they are building houses and the people who profit the most is the business owners, not the workers.

Most employers have a pyramid system, with those at the top earning the most (bussiness owner or company) with most workers getting paid the less at the bottom, but thery are the ones that make most businesses/companies prosperous.
Therefore most people are at the bottom of the pyramid.

The people who are well off, and have good paying jobs; Where do they spend their extra money- outside of Canada for vacations. The tourist attractions in Canada suck and cost alot to use.

One thing that has disappeared is the high school job for young kids 15 and over.

 

[Ame123]

There are only 80 Canadians aged 15-24 for every 100 aged 55-64 now. In the 60's that ratio was 200 to 100. Even if the birth rate goes to 3 it's not going to make a difference...even immigration is not going to be able to bridge the gap.

It's funny how the most anti immigration Canadians are also the ones that are against unions, free healthcare, affordable day care or anything else that could have increased the birth rate. It will also be these Canadians that are gonna bitch and moan the loudest when they're 75 and being treated by a filipina nurse with an accent and wondering what happened to all the Canadian born ones.
[/QUOTE

 

[Ame123]

My wife is a Filipino nurse and is amazing at her job as are most nurses.

 

[80watts]

High schools prepare kids for college/university. They don't propose how to run a small business.

 

[Ray]

High schools prepare kids for college/university. They don't propose how to run a small business.

High schools only provide students with a basic level of education. If one wants to run a business or learn a trade, they study at a post-secondary institution for that.
Canadian wages ARE going up. It's getting harder to find employees in the skilled trades, or employees who can afford a minimum wage job with today's rents.

 

[licks2nite]

Canadians steadily dumbed-down since WWII. In the west starting with Boeing move from Vancouver where family worked during the War. BC Television manufacturer, Jorden Unitized disappeared, also where family worked, hardly a year after CBC got a station going at Vancouver. How popular television became. Nobody ever knew where Jorden went. Shut out of Cold War manufacturing, A.V.Roe Aircraft disappeared after somebody falsely convinced John Diefenbaker that the product already obsolete. The Canadian engineering staff, reportedly these days, went to work on the US space program several years before Soviet first launch motivated any publicly heard of US space program. Bad enough any taxation on manufacturing, a tax at multiple stages of product development, for the most part hidden, persisted on Canadian made goods, double taxation, slowing and stopping Canadian manufactured exports into about early 1970s. Foreign branch plants left serving Canadian market, closed one-by-one as Canadian unions (thought to funded by foreign interests) priced their members out of skilled manufacturing jobs that went to jurisdictions allowing right-to-work. General wholesale tax persisted until the General Service Tax, GST introduced early 1980s. Any motivation to bring back Canadian manufacturing thwarted by so called free-trade treaties allowing jurisdictions with lax environmental standards and marginalized labour to do the work. No wonder an opioid overdose crisis. Canadians party on cheap imports and kiss goodbye the real life job skills and satisfaction that comes from being surrounded by goods you make yourself.

Just to make a long story short, if government keeps printing money that leaves Canada, sooner than later the overseas polluters & slave masters come back with the money and want something. If you can't honour the money and give something in return you can't expect the money to have value. Everything gets too expensive and wage increases only fuel more inflation.

A Canadian problem that won't be solved without radical intervention making Canadians competitive. Jurisdiction of both environmental standards and labour standards have to go to municipal governments. A tall order.

 

[Crookedmember]

Actually, median hourly wages in Canada are up about 20% in the last 20 years, adjusted for inflation. Please don't mistake Canada for the dumpster fire south of us. And please don't fall for the bullshit and nonsense uneducated lifetime politician Pierre Poilievre regularly spews.

 

[Mikaa32]

Yeah, that 20% is meaningless when house prices appreciated 500% in the same period!

 

[Forum mod]

There are certain industries right now, especially the tech sector, where wages are up massively in the past year. It's just not happening equally across all sectors.

 

[Vpete]

There are certain industries right now, especially the tech sector, where wages are up massively in the past year. It's just not happening equally across all sectors.

this!
There are many sectors hemorrhaging people. Starting positions in the field I am in that we’re 35k a year 3 years ago are now 47-50k for anyone one with experience you can jump around to 60k plus and more simply by looking elsewhere if you desire a change.
Top of the food chain is moving too and exec/ C suite salaries are being reviewed as the spread of knowledge is very thin so companies are fearful of losing talent.

one thing few youth and people do too is research industries about their stability. You can always chase your dream job but I’d rather a job that let’s me chase my dreams.

 

[Wakeup]

Our employees wages have gone up pretty big over the last few years, few make under a 100K. Mostly pretty skilled labor though.

 

[Amerix]

Our employees wages have gone up pretty big over the last few years, few make under a 100K. Mostly pretty skilled labor though.

Yeah, we'd pay people pretty well, if we could find any.

 

[sexmaniac]

Douglas Todd: Why Canadian wages never seem to go up
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-why-canadian-wages-never-seem-to-go-up


Let's be clear this thread is not intended to be a complain about providers raises their prices. Please don't take it there. This is a damning article on the state of wage, immigration, GDP and how it intertwines. The rising housing costs vs wage increases not even close to the same level of rise is a big part of what's happening in many major cities around the world. From HK to Vancouver, San Francisco to Sydney and so on......I know complaining but nothing gets done about it. I'm not a global finance expert but it doesn't take a genius to realize if things keeps going this way there will be a major crash/chaos beyond the homeless, housing and economic issues we face now. Also keep in mind I am not going into a political party vs another debate despite it being a major factor. I don't care who's in office as long as they can actually do better for the whole and isn't some turd. This was a huge debate at lunch with 20+ people arguing this matter. Curious to get thoughts from the folks on here.


This is quite the article. I've cliff noted some important quotes from the article. Read the full article for the entire context.


....................................................
"The chart in Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland’s budget quietly acknowledges a forecast by the OECD, a club of mostly wealthy nations, that Canada will likely come in dead last in the next four decades in regard to GDP growth per capita."
...............................................
"But more than a few people suggest they are doing the opposite. Why, when the country’s GDP is expanding, have individual Canadians not been getting ahead? Why is their wage growth projected to lag so far behind citizens of other nations? And why are millennials taking the brunt of it?"
..............................................
“Past generations of young Canadians entering the workforce could look forward to favourable tailwinds lifting real incomes during their working lives. That’s no longer the case,” he said.'
..........................................
The Liberals’ commitment to record immigration targets focuses mostly “on the benefits immigrants provide to older Canadians,” Punwasi said, including in the form of “strong housing demand and tax revenues.”
...............................................
As it is, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s economic plan relies on increasingly record-high immigration counts — of 432,000 in 2022, 447,000 in 2023, and 451,000 in 2024. That compares to 250,000 when the Liberals were first elected.

These targets, far higher than those in the U.S. or almost anywhere else, will impact economic equity in Canada, Wright says. “The evidence is very strong that the demographic group most adversely affected by higher immigration is the previous cohort of immigrants.”

That’s in part because the largest group of immigrants is disproportionately those between 25 and 40 years old, which is the same cohort as the already large baby-boom echo, also known as millennials.

An increase in immigration at this time amplifies the challenges millennials are having, particularly in the housing market, Wright says. “So, even if there is a valid argument for raising immigration levels, this is being done approximately 10 years prematurely.”

Thanks for posting this informative and very relevant topic Relax

 

[Rusty razor]

When you put wages into perspective with housing and other expenses it has in no way kept up. Thirty years ago my house was at $140,000 dollars and I was making $26.00 hr. Today that same house is 30 years older and is on the market for $1,500,000and my wage is $45.00hr. Without doing the math that’s roughly wages at 1.8 and property at almost 11 times. Don’t tell me that we are keeping up. Trucks from $20,000 - $100,000

 

[Gaius_Baltar]

There was an interesting article in the NYT this week about truckers and the future of trucking. The average trucker salary now is 50k while the inflation adjusted trucker salary from 1980 was 110k. Hard to believe when corporate profits are at record highs, but maybe that's part of the reason.

 

[appleomac]

There was an interesting article in the NYT this week about truckers and the future of trucking. The average trucker salary now is 50k while the inflation adjusted trucker salary from 1980 was 110k. Hard to believe when corporate profits are at record highs, but maybe that's part of the reason.

You need to learn the history of price controls in the US. Trucking was (some say due to the power, at least at the time, of unions) a highly regulated industry. Those regulations basically turned the trucking industry into something akin to OPEC - a cartel. Price controls, barriers to entry, etc., etc., etc. It changed in the early 80's (in the 70's for other areas of transportation like rail and air) when the US government started to dismantle alot of the price controls and entry barriers. It's not that "someone" lowered truckers' wages/salaries due to "greed" - it's that their wages/pay was artificially high due to regulations that in essence restricted competition, and once the barriers to competition were removed, along came more truckers that bid the price of their service down. Now, if you want to paint it as "greed" - fair enough. Truckers were greedy, once the "rules" that were in essence limiting competition were removed - the shoe was on the other foot. I get it, it's "nice" to think about "this" or "that" group of people all making 6 figures, but let's face it - if you think inflation is a problem now, it'd be worse if truckers were all making 6 figures. And well, if you like cartels, so be it - but that just means we all pay more (whether that cartel is in diamonds, oil, taxi's, whatever).

 

[masterblaster]