Where would you retire?

JimDandy

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May 17, 2004
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Been to Thailand many times before Covid 19 to me looks as good prospect for near future retirement or second next Philippines , hopefully this Pandemic blows over at some point soon ...
I am thinking Thailand as well, though I have never been to Asia, let alone Thailand. My uncle, who grew up in the Netherlands but lived most of his adult life in England, went to Thailand on an extented business trip. He met a lovely Thai woman 20+ years his junior and never left. He lives near the beach and goes for a swim evey morning despite being in his 80s. He did come to Canada a few years back to help celebrate my mother's birthday and we spoke about living in Thailand at that time. He said it was quite cheap for an expat. I asked about health insurance and it would definitely be the most expensive part of living in Thailand, but still not that crazy, maybe $1500 a month. If everything else is super cheap, I could probably deal with that kind of expense for health care. Of course, I should go there for a reasonably short trip first to see if I even like it there before making any major decisions. Plus I plan to work another 7 years or so before retiring.

JD
 

Mr. J

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Sep 12, 2019
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If I ever make it to retirement, I'd retire in the mountains. Spend my downtime hiking the Rockies, and perhaps even attempt to climb Mount Rainier in Washington State.
 

Total Slacker

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Jan 8, 2015
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out looking for a rug
I retired at a fairly young age and looked at Costa Rica, Australia, Greece, and Spain but in the end, Canada and B.C. specifically remains the best place in world for me personally.

Yes, retirement is awesome.
 

JimDandy

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May 17, 2004
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Here is a report I recently came upon online (Part1):

I retired from work in 2011 and moved to Thailand from the US as a retiree in 2017. I fell in love with the country on my first visit here but I made 3 month long visits before deciding to move here. I would certainly recommend visiting a country first before making a decision.

I immediately felt relaxed here. I had a couple of friends from New York visit last year. At the end of their stay the husband commented that during their whole stay they hadn’t heard anyone yelling at someone. That was a good observation. While Thais are like anyone else they have a pretty calm and accepting public persona. The public sphere here is very relaxing.

I like the warm weather. It’s a little like the US southeast. Think Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida not New Mexico or Arizona. I wouldn’t like this climate if I was working but as a retiree I love it. I make frequent use of the pool at my condo building in the afternoons. My year long wardrobe is t-shirts, shorts, and sandals. I love being able stay outside on the warm nights.

I love the culture here. It is definitely different and can be very interesting. I love visiting temples. They are endlessly different and are fun and lively community centers. There are festivals often throughout the year with parades, costumes, dancing, music, and food, of course food.

I love the food here. The food can definitely be spicy. On the Scoville scale a jalpeneo pepper is 2,500 - 8,000. Thai chilies are 50,000 - 100,000. So be careful! But there is plenty of non-spicy food here as well. There are a lot of I western restaurants and if you are a Foodie then there are is an active food scene for you. However, what makes Thai food so famous is the street food. You can get cheap food in any country but the inexpensive street food here is extraordinarily delicious as well. Of course, that is why visiting is important. You need to taste test to decide if it is for you. You can get most any international food item here at gourmet grocery stores. The availability of western food applies to Bangkok and the major city centers. In the countryside the food will be essentially all Thai and a lot of that will be Thai food you never find in a Thai restaurant in the US.

Thailand, and Bangkok in particular, has a sizable expatriate community. There are plenty of meetup groups and locations where you can reliably find westerners. Note that westerners are not necessarily US citizens. Most western expats are Europeans. The English language, among expats, is a common language. Sadly, most Americans (including me) are not multilingual. There are plenty of cultural and musical activities throughout any city. There are several excellent jazz music clubs, plenty of bar music bands, and every January-February the Bangkok symphony orchestra gives free concerts in the park. There are English language comedy clubs. There is an excellent art community. I recently found an art film theater that shows international films with Thai and English subtitles. I’m a salsa dancer and I can go out dancing several nights a week in Bangkok.

They have beautiful natural resources as well. In the north are the mountains and many national parks. I went to Khao Yai National park and saw a wide array of wildlife including great hornbills, monkeys, and wild elephants and millions of bats. I recently vacationed at Koh Lipe island in the Adaman Sea and saw some of the best coral reefs I’ve seen in many years. Travel, both airfare and hotels, is very cheap throughout SE Asia. Travel to other nearby countries is a great opportunity while living here. I’ve been to Malaysia, Cambodia, and Myanmar.

On the practical side coming here to live is pretty easy. As others have mentioned, there are financial requirements to moving here and living here. I wouldn’t say that they are draconian but the recent changes definitely hurt a small percentage of the existing expats. Thailand is transitioning into the modern international community and so are the immigration rules. Consider that the typical US Social Security benefit of about $1800/month will not satisfy the requirements. Even the top benefit of $2,600/month will barely satisfy the requirements. If you live in the Thai countryside, and that is not necessarily easy to do right off, then you can live nicely on significantly less than the requirements so there is a bit of a financial disconnect there.

Thais speak another language (surprise, surprise). As a retiree you are not necessarily going to be frequently meeting and interacting with Thais that have good English language skills. Some expats think that since English is an international standard language that Thais should be able to speak it as well. Vast numbers of Europeans can speak English. Well guess what . . . most Thais don’t. Eventually you can and should attend a language school to pick up as much of the Thai language as you can. I spent 6 months of last year (3 hrs/day, 5 days/week) attempting to learn to speak and read. I’ve learned a lot but have a long way to go. If you are in the countryside very few Thais will have English language skills. Years ago I had the same “problem” in the French countryside and my high school French didn’t help me much.

Generally, everything here is less expensive than it is in the US. World brand imported items are more expensive as are imported items in the US. If you want to buy a Northface backpack it will more expensive here. Also it depends on where you are coming from. I come from the San Francisco Bay Area which is one of the most expensive cost of living areas in the US. I rent a very nice condo in Bangkok in a good location for about 1/3rd the price of housing in the San Francisco East Bay. If you are coming from rural Iowa then the cost differential will not be as good. Once again, visiting here to compare prices on goods and services that you are likely to use is why you want to travel here first.

I can definitely say that routine medical care here is much more accessible and much cheaper than in the US. The hospital, walking distance from where I live, is very modern, has mostly English speaking doctors trained in the west. I’ve found the medical care to be excellent though I haven’t had any major medical procedures such as surgery. However, Thailand is well known as a medical tourist destination. People travel to Thailand for say, a hip transplant, and fly back for less than what it would cost in the US. I have gotten excellent minor care with English speaking doctors in clinics in the Thai countryside as well.
 

JimDandy

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Part 2


Thailand is a little bit behind in the digital economy but that is changing. Most everyday transactions are cash. Getting your first bank account can sometimes be a challenge. Getting a credit card is close to impossible. It is advisable to maintain a US address and US bank accounts. Straight wire transfers from the US to Thailand banks are easy but cost about $35–$50 per transaction. There is constant discussion in the expat community about methods to transfer money here more cheaply (the favorite being a service called Transferwise).

Getting a Thai drivers license is something you have to do after a few months if you intend to drive. Actually you want to get a motorbike license as well since motorbikes are used a great deal and people often rent them when traveling. Note that driving is on the left side of the road in Thailand. Personally, living in Bangkok, I love not having a car. Public transportation is very inexpensive. The BTS train system is wonderful. If you are brave enough to take the motorbike taxis then they are cheap and can bypass the traffic jams. I rode a motorcycle in the US and I would say the motorbike taxis driver skills are excellent. But it is also true that most traffic deaths are on motorbikes.

You cannot own land here. You can lease land for 30 years and build a house. You can buy a condo but only if there is 51% Thai ownership in the building. Buying a condo is actually pretty easy anywhere here. I don’t think you can get a mortgage here. At least not like you might understand mortgages in the US. Renting a house or condo is incredibly inexpensive so buying housing is not something I am considering.

Expat retirees in Thailand are by definition over 50 years of age. That pretty much makes you an older person. One nice thing about Thai culture is that older people here are not as invisible as they are in the US. Thais will treat you with a certain amount of deference and respect.

Thai Immigration is serious about expats following the immigration rules. If you are in Thailand for 90 days then you have to report to the Immigration department. (I was able to do my most recent 90 day report online). As a retiree you have to renew your permission to stay every year. The rules about reporting your exit/entries during International travel are suddenly being enforced and expats are trying to figure out that system as I write this. The US also has rules that apply to legal expats in the US. Of course the rules are a little different from country to country but living as an expat is not the same as living as a citizen in your home country. Being a US citizen and spending a lot of money in a foreign country doesn’t buy you any special consideration in Thailand. Just learn the rules and follow the rules. Of course it isn’t always that simple but that is the attitude to start off with.

Many people under 50 want to stay in Thailand long term. Thailand isn’t very accommodating to them and there are lots of horror stories about their experiences. Short term visitors, by the millions, do not have problems and enjoy their holiday in Thailand. As a retiree, there are several options, but mostly it is pretty easy. The rules vary a little bit between Immigration offices around the country but all you have to do is go to the office and get a handout describing their rules. The main thing is to not abuse the visa system to get around rules you don’t like. There is excellent advise on several Facebook groups. The “Thai visa advise” Facebook group is a necessity. The moderators there give concise accurate advice about the current Immigration rules.

If you are in that small demographic of people who are retired and under 50 years of age then you should look at the Thai Elite Visa program. It’s expensive up front but it is really the only way to stay here long term if you are under 50 years old. So if you are 35 years old and sold your internet startup for a fortune and you want to move to Thailand then Thai Elite is for you. Actually, it’s not so bad if you are willing to make a 5 year commitment. It averages to about $230/month. Much less than you will be saving on rent.

I definitely recommend retiring in Thailand but that is a personal choice. I can easily afford to retire here. I recently got married to a Thai woman here. I make an effort to adapt and enjoy a different culture. I like new experiences.

Visit first and then decide for yourself.

Update April, 2020: Thailand is pretty much shut down as part of their response to the Coronavirus epidemic. There doesn’t appear to be any runaway epidemic here. There has been a little over 100 new cases/day for about 2 weeks. Something to be concerned about but nothing like what is happening in hot spots around the world. Many visitors are clamoring to stay but Thai Immigration is making that very difficult. I still have no regrets about living here. I would say that you shouldn’t plan to retire here in 2020. There is too much going on now.

Update Sept, 2020: I feel particularly fortunate to be living in Thailand during the Coronavirus epidemic. The country went 101 days without a case of domestic transmission. The 1 recent case, a week ago, has not resulted in subsequent detected infections so far. Anyone entering the country must stay in a a mandatory government monitored state quarantine hotel. This quarantine detects 0–10 people a day with infections but has, so far, prevented the new entrants from bringing the virus into the country. Life here is mostly opened up in “the new normal” mode. In the cities mask wearing is probably 95%. In the countryside there is little mask wearing, maybe 10% though some business require it for entry.

Schools opened May 1st with no apparent problems. Indoor dining is allowed with music. Nightclubs are mostly open. Movie theaters and museums are open . As I mentioned in the original answer, I am a salsa dancer and salsa dancing has returned in the past two weeks. Many business are closed as a result of the lack of tourists. Cities and locations that depend heavily on tourists are suffering as are businesses elsewhere in the world.

Also, someone asked me about crime. Here is my answer: All I can say about crime is that I feel safer here than I do in the US. All the expats I’ve met from western countries say the same. We would never say there is no crime here but just that, as an expat, I (we) feel pretty safe here. The news sites report on crime all the time so I am not unaware of at least what gets reported.

JD
 
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m_clock

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I'm not going to retire. I've seen too many acquaintances retire over the years. When they are working they have their wits about them and a drive to keep going. After retirement their backs are hunched, they can't form a sentence, and they look like they aged at an accelerated rate. Ugh, no thanks. My work gives me purpose and I prefer that over the alternative.
 
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