What benefits do Natives get?

[Sir_frixalot]

for me what it all comes down to is forgiveness. there is a nation of people who are stuck in the past, and banging on this gigantic drum looking for compensation. waiting for a check from publishers clearing house that ISN'T going to come. i see a people who are capable of such beauty, but seem so content to sit back and watch their culture crawl towards extinction.

Mr Blonde, you are well spoken and truly understand what is what. I know what you say would be perceived as radical by most, but I think you have hit it on the head - doing it would be very very hard, but everything good always is, isn't it?

Reality is this - well my prediction anyways - as immigration levels grow, the people who immigrate are not going to know a flying F about natives and type 2 and 3 indians will just get steam-rolled over by immigrants who are even more disadvantaged and WILL work hard for less. It will take longer and be more agonizing, and the perceived problem will just go away.

 

[mr_happy_ending]

I know all indians are not like him...LOL I`m not an alcoholic and my teeth are pretty nice....

That’s not what I heard

Who said I don`t know about my heritage???!!!

I know all I need to know about my biological (ojibwa-not sure if spelt right) "dad".

If you did know about your heritage, you wouldn’t have to wonder if you spelt it correctly.

Im not in government and I don`t make the rules for every indian but I do make the rules for myself and just because my biological father is indian doesn`t mean I am.

I am not racist but from experience I can find humor in native jokes and nobody can tell me not to laugh when I want to.

So if you don`t consider yourself native, why do you think it`s acceptable to laugh at them?

Maybe this is because the government gives him so many free rides.

I guess the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree... it`s sort of like how you get so many free rides after making inappropriate comments.

To conclude: Can anybody find a thread in which Danika posts and doesn’t make a fool of herself? Perhaps it’s like finding a needle in a haystack….. “Luv to luv ya”….

 

[DD15]

I think Im aloud to start this because I am part Native LOL
(and no I don't collect any benifits)

*What do you call a group of indians sitting in a circle???

A full set of teeth!

*What is the difference between an indian funeral and an indian wedding???

One less drunk!

Anyone want to share some more native jokes?

I might be out of line here (for a noob) but this really out of line.
Maybe 20 years ago these types of racist jokes would have been considered ok but come on this is 2008!
Have we learned nothing from our mistakes?
Does this board have mods (a serious question,remember im a noob)?

 

[InTheBum]

Great post Synd77...cause i use to think all natives get cheques of 1200.00 per month. Dont ask me why i think this but many of my friends believe this also.

Ya! Big correction LAG!!! The average Native gets $2100.00 per month tax free, a free house and land, free schooling, 90% off gasoline, and their own police force.

Times are tough for the Natives these days...frickin Gov't bastards!!!

 

[synd77]

Ya! Big correction LAG!!! The average Native gets $2100.00 per month tax free, a free house and land, free schooling, 90% off gasoline, and their own police force.

Times are tough for the Natives these days...frickin Gov't bastards!!!

I hear they get helicopters and "lazers" too...

 

[PoorGuy]

All I can say is that the "native only food fishery" that the DFO mandates is a crock of shit and a slap to the face of legitimate harvesters. Some members of the Musqueam band make some good cash during their openings in the Summer. MP John Cummings must blow a gasket everytime this story comes up in the news.

It's the band in Chilliwack that has to be careful, because when they get their opening, the DFO pickup trucks with their fancy surveillance equipment always keeps an eye on them. Not so for the Musqueam, since the sellers can sell quick in Vancouver.

So yeah, this is a benefit thanks to the DFO.

 

[kweeezy]

So who are the "legitmate harvesters" ?

The ones who had discretionary priviledge for decades to supply fish for the canneries and exhaust and deplete all of the resources?

Or the ones originally granted stewardship due to their long-standing (centuries) history as users of the resources that were 'granted' to them by the Crown in the 1800's? Another standing promise that was ignored because of the canneries flourishing success until 1990 when the federal government finally stepped in and said enough.

It's amazing to me how people cry foul after the damage they created has been done. Now that it's back in Aboriginal hands, envy and greed raises it's ugly head.

 

[Akitasam]

Everyone should be allowed equal harvests and the same start and end to the harvesting season.

 

[synd77]

this post is like a nasty rash =P...

Fisheries now...who knew?....

 

[synd77]

this post is like a nasty rash =P...

Fisheries now...who knew?....one of the kind things my band did for me was put me thruough the fisheries and Aquaculture program offered by Malaspina..I spent 3.5 years earning my diploma...some pretty badass and downright brutal courses =)...The facts I learned at the time regarding harvest were: Native food fisheries took in 3% (poaching and individual sales combined), sport fisheries took the same, while commercial fisheries took in 94%...given variations in years..you might expect slight variances...not like it would matter much...

My view is, the food fishery at 3% of the harvested average is not even signifigant....and the fact its bitched about makes me lie awake at night wondering about the intelligence of the human race....

The other minute reduction to our fish returns is sports fisheries, its been estimated that 1 sportsfish caught= 700$ into our local economies....lodging..meals...tackle..licences...I totally support this industry not for the facts listed above...but for the reasons that its also a SELECTIVE fishery, in river, which can target fish populations that can afford to be harvested, not an open oceans or river mouth fishery where low population or endangered stocks are caught with the "superstocks" that are running thru concurrently....

One thing people arnt aware of is the fact that evey stable stock/run of fish is harvested at about 90%.....9/ every 10 fish returning is caught, and that 1/10 fish returning on average sustains a somewhat stable population according to DFO...IAlso, when there is an environmental concern, a stock delcine or whatever, DFO takes the intitiative to only harvest 40-60% of the endangered returns...YES 40-60%!!...the reason being a ;ack of a way to selectively fish stocks based on the current commercial Fishery, and a straight out( to those in the meetings anyway) admission that saving the smaller stocks is not economically...viable....I have so many issues with this....I've been at the Meetings..Argued...Watched the Arguments...DFO is convinced that allowing more fish to return to their spawing grounds would only result in overspawning, the extra fish somehow not being productive and itd be a waste....given historical estimates of populations...and their belief that extra fish on the spawning grounds=no benefit seems fishy to me....

I have a few educated views: (I'm sure some ol commercial fisher will step up and whine....they always do..my bio dad was a commercial fisher..)...These are as follows:

1) Hatcheries, they eliminate the mortality suffered thru the first few stages of a salmonids life, dramatically......like an 80%+ difference.....theres numerous spawning grounds/hatcheries that in their first cycle(based on a salmonids cycle) inputted 3X what their construction costs were in the FIRST cycle(3-4 yrs)...thats huge...and unfortunately it masks the real problems, and brings up more......nowadays these hatcheries have balooned, as well as the fish farms....and now the amount of hatchery salmon exceeds the amount of wild salmon...who cares you might ask....untill you get into the genetic losss involved, and the situation I bring up next...

2)The way we harvest salmon, open fisheries and rivermouth....many stocks travel together... say for conversation theres 2....1 with 100 returning salmon, and one with 1,000......say you catch 5 of each stock...the low population, you've just taken 55 of the returning fish right there....the higher population, its 0.5%..thats the problem....we dont harvest right.....sure the superstocks stay reasonably stable...but all of the lower stocks have and are going extinct.

I have my own views on this...I've brought them up...but DFO treated me like the plague..I have my ideas wy too...historically the numbers of salmon returnin were 100's pf times more then now....Hells Gate ruined that (therailway in the early 1900's...and the reason Americans get 50% of the fraser returns now..they came up and made fishways and blasted out the ricks our railway blocked the fraser canyon with..our government was going to leave it too...the ONLY reason we have salmon today, like it or hate is is because the americans came up and fixed our problem.....anyways the populations got decimated....time goes on...now today...with the stats I've said above....what would happen if DFO harvested at 40% of the average returns..over 2 cycles....thats 8 years...the returns would boggle the mind truthfully...but they are ademantly agains it...my belief is...if our fish were to return anywhere near these historical numbers...the price of fish would plummet to below the price of dogfood...commercial fishers wouldnt be able to fill their holds fast enough and drop them off at hatcheries quick enough to turn a profit....I'll go as far to say that DFO is playing a dangerous game of trying to keep the fish populations at a current average...to keep the price at a current point...They say too many fish on a spawning ground now..they'd juyst spawn over each others areas...

Now the fact is that people will bitch about what I just said....but the stats I just gave are indesputable....you contact the pacific biological station or the Fisheries and Aquaculture dept in Nanaimo an you'll see.....fro mthe stats given its easy to make the assumptions I have, its not rocket science....its being MISMANAGED....

I'd say to the more intelligent people out there to fully support selective sport fishing...our commercial fishing..indian or white, theres no distinction are not suited towards sustainable fishing, and their only going to bring a westcoast collapse of our fisheries.....

As for the food fisheries..they deserve to be taken into account first...their harvest is nothing compared to the others....unfortunately..this isnt the case...What happenes is..the majority of these bands are far upriver....the last in the chain of harvests....so they often get hit with the environmental concerss from the way DFO fishes...the returning stocks this many, you cant take any to conserve the stock...These are the bands that do the restoration and enhancement of the spawning grounds and rearing habitat too...to make sure ALL have a bountiful return...its a slap in the face....As for Musqueam...their one band...and DFO giving them their allocations...causes strife al lthe way up the river......fights..I've witnessesd with my own eyes...I believe its just a devisive tactic...Musqueam might now see it...but then again...their the one getting the profits of others work....

Our constitution binds us...its this thing that stops us from being the animals we really are...the set in stone laws that man fears....if not for these....I dont care what kind of computer you have..man would act as he is....an animal...Few have the intelligence....to bring such safeguards to humanity...few deserve to be trusted with it.....my point is...our constitution says we should treat peoples with a certain respect..based on this and that....and thats how aboriginals are winning their ground back...its bad new to you whiners...but look up Sparrow...or Delgamuuk....our contitution is going to ensure reparations for the shit we've done whether Joe Bob or Billy Ray agree with it or not.....the trick is...look at all the facts...intelligently if you can...

 

[kweeezy]

Nice post Synd77--I've researched sparrow, Delgamuuk, and the Douglas treaties.
It's nice to have your 'inside' perspective.

 

[EdenLee]

My native friend recieved 1800 a month to live off while she was going to school 15,000$ course. She now works for Health Canada and she's a really good person.

She's one of the lucky ones who used the money and resources available to natives to further herself in life.

Not everyone does that and that is the shame here.

I feel sorry for the natives not born to native women...because you have to have a native mother to be able to get your "Status" card that entitles you to all these freebies and grants.

 

[bcneil]

Ah nice to be back at perb!
This is what I missed

 

[luvsdaty]

I think the D.I.A. dolls out about 9 billion dollars a year for us" privilidged indians." Unfortunately I have'nt seen a penny of this.My parents moved off the reserve back in 1961,they tried to move off sooner but the indian agent said that they should stay on the reserve, that they did'nt belong on the "whitemans land".When my dad was young ,you could'nt go into the general store. You told the shopkeeper what you wanted and he brought it to a barred door at which you paid and left.You were'nt allowed the privilage of owning a commercial fishing license,but the owners made sure that they hired indians as deckhands to show them where the best spots to fish.You had to sit at the back of the theatre in a partitioned part of the theatre if you wanted to go see a movie.You were'nt allowed to vote,my great grandfather was given a barrel of molasses and told he had to move off his land.In B.C. we where given small reserves cause the gov't said we could survive off the "plentiful salmon", not very likely nowadays. A lot of people whine about how good we have it, yet those same people always seem to be the ones always asking me if I have any "10 dollar" salmon and rockfish for sale? I've given up counting how many "non-natives" have asked me to buy them cheap smokes and gas, I even had one of my fore-man ask me if i could get him an outboard so he could go out "sportfishing".Countless times i've been asked to go out fishing with my "white buddies" so we could use my food fish permit???

 

[luvsdaty]

My parents grew up in the residential school system,my ma saw one of her friends beaten so badly that she died the next day because of her injuries and this was by a nun.You might ask what she did to deserve such a beating? she droped her tray while she was standing in line for breakfast. At my dads residential school they had a fire and the school burnt down. The staff just kicked them out and this was in the middle of winter.My dad was lucky cause he had an aunt who lived nearby so he had a place to stay until his dad could come and pick him up(a 4 hour boat ride).While most of these kids came from hundreds of miles away,what happened to them? My mom was a little luckier, the school she went too was only an hours walk away so she was allowed to go home on sunday after church for 4 hours, then she had to go back after dinner.While many of her classmates never got to go home for ten months of the year.Crying yourself to sleep was the norm,all this while your only 6 or 7 years old.And you wonder why so many of us are screwed up? The best way to teach a child is by example,many of us where never given that luxury, and can you even begin to imagine the guilt these parents felt by abandoning there children to these agencies? Yet they had no choice,cause if you did'nt surrender your child(children) you where arrested and thrown in jail...I'm very proud of my heritage and my parents are my heroes,you can keep Wayne Gretzky.I dont think I could ever repay my parents for the hardships they suffered to give me a better life,I can only hope that i'm half the person they where. I had a few relatives who fought and died in the 2nd world war,yet when they came home they werent allowed into the local legion? It's nearly impossible to get a loan from a bank and even today I still get ignored while waiting for service in a restaurant,all because of the colour of my skin.Free dental and medical, yeah right! I think dental coverage is about 600 bucks a year,I get better coverage from my job.I don't see any white guys lining up to trade places with me and I'm fairly well off! Yup its all pie in the sky for us injuns.

 

[smackyo]

My parents grew up in the residential school system,my ma saw one of her friends beaten so badly that she died the next day because of her injuries and this was by a nun.You might ask what she did to deserve such a beating? she droped her tray while she was standing in line for breakfast. At my dads residential school they had a fire and the school burnt down. The staff just kicked them out and this was in the middle of winter.My dad was lucky cause he had an aunt who lived nearby so he had a place to stay until his dad could come and pick him up(a 4 hour boat ride).While most of these kids came from hundreds of miles away,what happened to them? My mom was a little luckier, the school she went too was only an hours walk away so she was allowed to go home on sunday after church for 4 hours, then she had to go back after dinner.While many of her classmates never got to go home for ten months of the year.Crying yourself to sleep was the norm,all this while your only 6 or 7 years old.And you wonder why so many of us are screwed up? The best way to teach a child is by example,many of us where never given that luxury, and can you even begin to imagine the guilt these parents felt by abandoning there children to these agencies? Yet they had no choice,cause if you did'nt surrender your child(children) you where arrested and thrown in jail...I'm very proud of my heritage and my parents are my heroes,you can keep Wayne Gretzky.I dont think I could ever repay my parents for the hardships they suffered to give me a better life,I can only hope that i'm half the person they where. I had a few relatives who fought and died in the 2nd world war,yet when they came home they werent allowed into the local legion? It's nearly impossible to get a loan from a bank and even today I still get ignored while waiting for service in a restaurant,all because of the colour of my skin.Free dental and medical, yeah right! I think dental coverage is about 600 bucks a year,I get better coverage from my job.I don't see any white guys lining up to trade places with me and I'm fairly well off! Yup its all pie in the sky for us injuns.

bravo. i think it means more coming from you than it would from a non native to explain the situation a little clearer.

how bout the "benefits" a lot of the northern reserves have. its like freakin third world in some of those reserves. boil water advisories and poverty that would make your head spin.

 

[luvsdaty]

I grew up in the 70s and I got to spend the summers at my maternal grandparents. I still remember getting paid ten cents for each bucket of water I brought back to my grandparents house cause there was no running water. A buddy of mine applied for housing on the reserve when he was in his twenties...He's sixty-two now and he's still waiting.My older brother use to tell me that when he was little he use to roll up news paper and shove it between the cracks in the walls of the house they use to live in on the reserve. When my dad was a kid, you could'nt just go to any docter you had to go to the one that the gov't supplied.One of the posts said we'd still be crapping in holes and dead by the time we reached 50???? My parents told me that it was'nt uncommon for people to live past 100 before 1st contact with europeans. I'd heard that the coastal indians where the most advanced non-aggricultural society in the history of man-kind. I'd say the europeans got a pretty good deal, we gave you tobacco,corn, and an entire continent rich in natural resources.The europeans gave us smallpoxs,T.B.,diabetes,sexually transmitted diseases,cultural genocide and if you live on a reserve,your basically a beggar in your own country.I'd heard somewhere that the "indian act" was the blueprint for appartheid? If you live on a reserve,you never own the land so you can never borrow against it.It's sad to see people who are ashamed that they are native.We call them "apples",red on the outside white on the inside.

 

[uknowme]

bravo. i think it means more coming from you than it would from a non native to explain the situation a little clearer.

how bout the "benefits" a lot of the northern reserves have. its like freakin third world in some of those reserves. boil water advisories and poverty that would make your head spin.

you are what you make of it. With all the goverment money they get you figure there would be clean drinking water. Perhaps the money is not making it down to the people that really need it. Why do some of the chiefs live in a life of luxury while the rest live in provety. If I had a free education, medicare, housing, money, I would put it to good use rather than just blowing it month on month on drugs and alcohol. There is a reserve near Ft St. John that when you turn 19, the goverment sends you a cheque for 10k. A cabbie told me that they take a $300 cab ride to Ft St John and drink all night long and then another $300 ride back. Wow when I turned 19, I was racking up student loans and bearly making ends meet. This may sound racist, but get over it, you've been conquered!

 

[kweeezy]

This may sound racist, but get over it, you've been conquered!

It doesn't sound racist, it is.

There wasn't a need to conquer.

We greeted Europeans warmly and helped them survive. Sharing the land may have been a viable solution for all if it wasn't for greed and power especially from the Spanish and English.

My tribe, the Mi'kmawq, from the East Coast were first contact and exposed to all sorts of indignation from a people who were at first surprised by the 'Micmacs' generosity and afraid of our superior numbers. There was enough land for everyone to share and no need for title deeds and selling off large tracts of land to the rich. The Mi'kmawqs had a great relationship with the Acadians for many years and even when the British took over and started to exert their authority through their superior numbers and technology the two (Acadians and Mi'kmawqs) went to great lengths to help protect one another.

The average Canadian citizen today is also "conquered" as the rich take what they want and leave their legacy of death and pollution.

Wouldn't sharing and eco-conscious living have been a great introduction to North American living? Isn't it funny how that it is what environmentalists are striving for right now?

Conquered my ass---it was all a matter of extreme greed and white supremacist attitudes, driven by scapegoat-ism and propagated by guilt.

The West wasn't won, it was lost and we're all still paying the price today.

 

[lenny]

Let's not forget that NA Native Indian tribes slaughtered one another
long before the white man came and brought destruction. Does that
make it right? No. But what are we supposed to do about it now?
Should we take the blame and go back to Europe for what others
of the same skin colour, our ansestors, did?