USA Political Thread 2024

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rlock

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That is such a tired trope. One President "surfing" off of the economic prowess of the previous administration.

Happens to be true. Demonstrated again and again, that people live in the conditions set by actions years before. Lag time is a bitch, but everyone has to deal with it.
Even just the interest rates issue, people said whatever is going on now with inflation reflects interest rate decisions from 6 months ago or more. The only immediate effects are with speculators.
 
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rlock

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The only explanation I can think of is these people have been let down by both parties. They feel disenfranchised, neither party really speaks to them.
Then along comes Trump who does speak to them as if he was one of them. No preachy condescension. He’s neither dem or gop. He tells them everything they want to hear. He tells them their problems are not their fault and provides scapegoats. His maga movement welcomes them with open arms.
He’s a Hail Mary candidate… nothing else has worked for the 7-Eleven guy so might as well give Trump a try.

You could see it even before the election campaigns were in full swing, people in the US were really unenthusiastic about their "choice". The parties are both a let-down, bereft of real leaders or ideas, and filled with attention seeking kooks who are only there to game the system in their own favour.
Trump is the grandest of those attention-seeking kooks, and a master of lying to people successfully. But for a long time now, Americans have been let down by both parties to the point where they expect nothing good out of either of them. They have been conditioned to have low standards, or no standards at all.
 
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rlock

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I watched Harris’s speach today, and concluded she has no clue why she lost. Same seems to apply here.

Harris attempted to incite fighting for liberal ideals while conversely admonishing for a peacefully ttansition. Time to go. I expected better of her. Dissappointed. Her 10 minute soundbyte should have been delivered last night, at least the beginning part about thanking all of her supporters. That was a douche move to go cry on her pillow during the biggest night of the year and leaving all her peops hanging.

The ongoing orangeman bad mantry only gets in the way of the genuine introspection and reforms the Democrats need to do.

I was very much against Harris when I saw her primary debate performance in 2020; she tried to backstab Joe Biden by falsely painting him as a racist, and then Tulsi Gabbard's response blew such a big hole in her, her campaign sank. Why Biden chose her for VP, I'll never know. People liked to say that she was like a female Obama, but she wasn't; more like a black Hillary Clinton. After 2016, they did not really get why they lost; after 2020, they did not really get why they won; and after 2024 I doubt the party's top brass will really learn why they lost again despite their foe being clearly even worse than he was before.
Lesson #1 - The other side being bad guys does not mean people see you as good guys.
Lesson #2 - If people at the grassroots of your own party are telling you to smarten the fuck up, then try listening to them instead of denouncing them for daring to go off-message.
Lesson #3 - No more Beyonce appearances, mmm-kay ?
 

rlock

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I do believe he will cut the funding off from Ukraine; Leaving Europe in a lynch.
He will go after the people who went after him.
Trump is fascinated by tryants. Putin, that Korean guy, that chinese guy.... Trump is a business man, with an attitude of "laissez-faire" attitude towards business, which is not what these tyrants want. They want to control. Control everything. Trump at best is only a manager, that has to answer to congress and the senate. If he tries to change the constitution, the 2nd amendment guys will take action....

American bussiness in the world after WW2 was to dominate and control things in the world. It has problems where they don't have patents (eg Muslim countries). America is on the wane of its power, China is taking its place in world.

Unfortunately people will have to endure 4 more years of BS with trump....

The "2nd Amendment guys" are his private army, the ones he will use to turn the US into a dictatorship when the soldiers & cops refuse to round up and murder his political opponents.

As for Europe, I wish they would realize that they are genuinely better off America does leave them without its so-called protection.
 
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rlock

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Here’s a cheery thought I heard on the radio this morning, as of January most of the world’s active nuclear weapons will be under the control of complete nut bars! Then they played “ A don’t worry be happy“.

Putin is not a nut-bar, just ruthless and very angry.

Kim Jong Un is a nutjob, but probably not more than any Joe Rogan guest. Oversensitive and the product of having a pampered childhood and never being told "no". (Just like Trump. They should get along fine.)

Xi Jinping and Modi might be nutbars, or maybe just garden variety arrogant/prejudiced assholes. They like to throw their weight around, but it is all part of their game to stay in charge.

And Netanyahu is the devil, so messing with hellfire is already in his wheelhouse.


Hopefully he reimposes sanctions on Iran. When the Democrats came back into power they ignored the sanctions....because Trump.....enabling Iran to rebuild its finances.
Its why I believe its quite possible that Iran was behind both assassination attempts on Trump.

The US has an idiotic grudge against Iran, just like with Cuba. Obama at least had the strategic sense to try and let it drop (only after Hillary was no longer his secretary of state). Biden never did - too much of an AIPAC "company man".
Trump just straight-up murdered one of Iran's top generals, the person more responsible than anyone else on earth for successfully defeating ISIS. The Americans, Saudis and Israelis were also sore that that the guy prevented ISIS from taking over Syria, so Trump had the American military kill him. So whatever "plot" against Trump, the US can't bitch about it, because they are in the "targetted killing" business - waging war without declaring war. As usual they are hypocrites about it; they have the right to hit anyone they want, but nobody else is allowed to hit back. For all of Trump's campaign rhetoric about other people being war-hawks, he certainly has zero problem fucking up the Middle East (or east Asia, or Latin America). No, it's only Ukraine he gets non-intervetionist about.
 

ModSquad

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Harper this and Harper that!!!
The ONLY canadian prime minister in the past 100 years that deserves accolade is Paul Martin. IMHO
More so as finance minister, due to having pulled us back from financial collapse due to too much debt.
Agreed but add it was Jean Chrétien who told Bush Jr Canada didn’t support his Iraq BS without proof other than Cheneys made up intelligence. Saved a lot of Canadian soldiers lives but Canada lived in the US doghouse for years. So what.
 

ModSquad

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Putin is not a nut-bar, just ruthless and very angry.

Kim Jong Un is a nutjob, but probably not more than any Joe Rogan guest. Oversensitive and the product of having a pampered childhood and never being told "no". (Just like Trump. They should get along fine.)

Xi Jinping and Modi might be nutbars, or maybe just garden variety arrogant/prejudiced assholes. They like to throw their weight around, but it is all part of their game to stay in charge.

And Netanyahu is the devil, so messing with hellfire is already in his wheelhouse.





The US has an idiotic grudge against Iran, just like with Cuba. Obama at least had the strategic sense to try and let it drop (only after Hillary was no longer his secretary of state). Biden never did - too much of an AIPAC "company man".
Trump just straight-up murdered one of Iran's top generals, the person more responsible than anyone else on earth for successfully defeating ISIS. The Americans, Saudis and Israelis were also sore that that the guy prevented ISIS from taking over Syria, so Trump had the American military kill him. So whatever "plot" against Trump, the US can't bitch about it, because they are in the "targetted killing" business - waging war without declaring war. As usual they are hypocrites about it; they have the right to hit anyone they want, but nobody else is allowed to hit back. For all of Trump's campaign rhetoric about other people being war-hawks, he certainly has zero problem fucking up the Middle East (or east Asia, or Latin America). No, it's only Ukraine he gets non-intervetionist about.

You do realize Hamas and Hezbollah are de facto armies of Iran? They’ve been funded, armed and trained by Iran since their inception with the singular goal of eliminating Israel. Easier to fund terrorists than use your own country’s armed forces to avoid an outright war with another nation.

So yes, being obsessed with Iran is a very wise move.

This is a title from article in Al Jazeera today:

Iran’s Khamenei: Hamas and Hezbollah resistance means ‘defeat’ for Israel
 

Mrmotorscooter

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This was not just a MAGA win he got a lot of Latino and Black as well as regular workers votes, there was an old mantra; “it's the economy stupid!” That should have been the #1 priority above women’s rights, would have garnered more support for Harris, the Black Woman President was a hard swallow for many as well.
Found this, lot of truth here:
IMG_2911.jpeg
 
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carvesg

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the popular vote, Trump got less votes this time than 2020, he basically got 30% of the possible votes, a minority just like in Canada are driving the short bus

which would have been the case if Harris won too

Harris got less votes than Clinton

the population is around 20 million more than 2016 too

but the real problem as always is barely 55% of the people who could, did vote

that's the really sad part, apathy
A lot of people stayed home this cycle around when you look at the numbers Harris got 12 millions less votes than Biden and Trump is 1 million less than his previous total in 2020 .

Apathy from people in the middle , boycott from activist Democrats, lack of connection with people's concerns or as Westwoody mentioned people feeling disenfranchised could all account for the lower participation from American voters in this cycle .

That's 13 millions Americans that said... Bah nah I'm staying home ! When most of us thought so much was at stake.
 

Noob888

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Here’s a cheery thought I heard on the radio this morning, as of January most of the world’s active nuclear weapons will be under the control of complete nut bars! Then they played “ A don’t worry be happy“.
Well, you can partly thank the Tik Tok and YouTube crowd where they knowingly accept and share half-truths, misinformation, disinformation, and lies. For the older folks the lyrics that comes to mind is Fleetwood Mac's "Tell Me Sweet Little Lies" and for the younger crowd on Perb, Rihanna's "Love the Way You Lie". That pretty much sums up Trump supporters and everyone suffering from toxic/delusional optimism.

Plus, I find it's both funny and annoying to read world and local leaders or heads of companies like Tim Cook kissing Trump's ass, inhaling his farts, congratulating him like some Godfather who will end up screwing them anyway.

Let's not ignore how the stock market has risen considerably too thanks to Trump's victory. I am willing to bet once reality sinks in with investor's it'll plummet because these tariffs are not helpful for the USA or US consumers. Dumbass Americans and much of the world are devolving/regressing. When things go sideways they won't blame Trump, they'll blame the Dems.
 

PuntMeister

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A lot of people stayed home this cycle around when you look at the numbers Harris got 12 millions less votes than Biden and Trump is 1 million less than his previous total in 2020 .

Apathy from people in the middle , boycott from activist Democrats, lack of connection with people's concerns or as Westwoody mentioned people feeling disenfranchised could all account for the lower participation from American voters in this cycle .

That's 13 millions Americans that said... Bah nah I'm staying home ! When most of us thought so much was at stake.
It’s not apathy. Almost half of America voted with their Ass. Bum on the couch vote because neither party is worthy of getting up off the Barcalounger and go out and put in a lousy pick.

BOTH of the US parties have lost their way, and lost the motivation for average citizens to engage in the great democracy that is the USA.

Therefore the better hustler wins the contest. So be it. Ideals got Trumped. Or maybe simpler ideals prevailed. Doesn’t matter, here we are. Time for many to STFU and decide if they want to whine about their wounds and perceived injustices, or participate in journey selected by the people that got their ass off the couch and voted.

Move along people. Not much to see here.
 
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Noob888

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It’s not apathy. Almost half of America voted with their Ass. Bum on the couch vote because neither party is worthy of getting up off the Barcalounger and go out and put in a lousy pick.

Therefore the better hustler wins the contest.
Apathy played very little into the election. It's those who can tell the best and biggest lies that come out a head. Trump is better than Harris or BIden. If you're a criminal, you also earn the votes of people.

Plus, Trump received the sympathy vote after that "miss" which only helped him. Talk show hosts like Colbert, Meyers, and Kimmel denouncing the incident didn't help the Dems.

From what I read, Harris apparently missed the God "loving" crowd, in particular the Catholics and middle class. Those who voted for Trump were basically giving her the middle finger for ignoring them. In other words, many voted out of spite. Academics and much of Hollywood voted for Dems.

The elephant in the room is that many people won’t acknowledge Musk's influence on their decisions, especially the election. They defend everything "good" he did and ignore the bad. Whatever he says, people follow. I saw a Tesla with a license plate that read, "Thank you Elon."

We live in a highly dysfunctional (unhinged) culture where society is taught to separate a person’s abilities or skills from their behaviour. And the results are clearly garbage.
 
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Larry's Torch

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Just a quick calculation:
Trump said he would deport 11,000,000 illegal immigrants.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...trump-mass-deportation-plan-cost/75690260007/

Each deportation conducted by ICE cost taxpayers an average of $10,854 (in fiscal 2016).
https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/deportation-costs-undocumented-immigrant/index.html

That works out to a grand total of: $119,394,000,000.00
(one hundred nineteen billion three hundred ninety-four million dollars)
https://goodcalculators.com/numbers-to-words-converter/

Maybe all of his billionaire buddies will chip in and cover the cost?
 
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carvesg

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It’s not apathy. Almost half of America voted with their Ass. Bum on the couch vote because neither party is worthy of getting up off the Barcalounger and go out and put in a lousy pick.

BOTH of the US parties have lost their way, and lost the motivation for average citizens to engage in the great democracy that is the USA.

Therefore the better hustler wins the contest. So be it. Ideals got Trumped. Or maybe simpler ideals prevailed. Doesn’t matter, here we are. Time for many to STFU and decide if they want to whine about their wounds and perceived injustices, or participate in journey selected by the people that got their ass off the couch and voted.

Move along people. Not much to see here.
I get your point but still there's an engagement problem when such a percentage stays home .

I know like you most of us want to move on as quickly as possible from the shit show but it is for the understanding of an event that some if us keep thinking at the cause of the results. When regular logic does not apply OCD people like many of us keep digging...lol

Trying to corral people to move along won't work.... wishful thinking though...easier to avoid the thread
 
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rlock

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Agreed but add it was Jean Chrétien who told Bush Jr Canada didn’t support his Iraq BS without proof other than Cheneys made up intelligence. Saved a lot of Canadian soldiers lives but Canada lived in the US doghouse for years. So what.

Very true. To this day there are Cons who still resentful that Chretien did not automatically follow the UK & Australia into America's war and end up disgraced.



You do realize Hamas and Hezbollah are de facto armies of Iran? They’ve been funded, armed and trained by Iran since their inception with the singular goal of eliminating Israel. Easier to fund terrorists than use your own country’s armed forces to avoid an outright war with another nation.

So yes, being obsessed with Iran is a very wise move.

This is a title from article in Al Jazeera today:

Iran’s Khamenei: Hamas and Hezbollah resistance means ‘defeat’ for Israel

LO< "Iran's leader proclaims _____ " is always going to be followed by some bullshit on his part. They also claim they destroyed a bunch of Israeli F35's, when there's no evidence they even scratched one of them. Do not take this bluster at face value.
Incorrect basis for contending that Hamas and Hezbolah are puppet organizations of Iran, at the very least.

Hamas ended up supported by Iran when they went to the sunni Arab powers like Saudi Arabia or help and got told "no, we can't be bothered with you".
Hezbollah was created by the Lebanese shiites (not Iran) after Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 to fight with the PLO and support the (christian) Falangist fascists in Lebanon. Nobody on either of those sides gave a fuck what it did to the people who actually lived there, so they formed their own group to fight until the other Lebanese factions (Sunni and Christian) had to back the fuck off and Israel would have to eventually leave Lebanon. Iran supported them for shiite solidarity reasons, but for strategic power projection also. But make no mistake, none of these groups would be silent and docile if Iran did not support them. They have their own lives & agendas to worry about, and take their benefits where they can find them.
Qatar gives as much support to Hamas as Iran does, but you do not hear about it in our media as much because Qatar is also hosting western military forces in the Persian Gulf, and nobody wants to fuck with that. They quite literally buy influence in the West with that and their gas production.

Look behind the screen of media (of which Al Jazeera is a proxy for the sunni UAE & Saudi & Qatar powers), and you will see what Iran's motivation is: rub Saudi Arabia's nose in the shit.
They get to point out how they have met those needs of the downtrodden, while the filthy rich Arab oil-monarchies have allowed their fellow muslims to get slaughtered by "Israeli, American, and European infidels", etc. - basically you are lookign at a sort of pissing contest over who are the true defenders of Islam, which happens to coincide with their strategic competition over who really controls the Persian Gulf. They are never not fucking with each other in some convoluted way.

By the way, Israeli & US hardliners all know this, and also benefit from what Iran does, it gets them what they want (war, therefore political dominance over their own electorates).
And vice-versa, Iran's hardliners get what they want - a state of siege that also glosses over how much Iran's people would love to overthrow them, if not for the nationalistic effects of always having foreigners that are attacking your country in some way.
Whether inside Israel, the US, or inside Iran, peace would actually endanger their current regimes & leaders. So they make sure there is none.

It is a cynical game these regimes all play, and you really need to see beyond the surface level of it.
 

rlock

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More acknowledgement of the so-called "Beyonce Curse" on the Dems:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/democratic-party-reckoning-soul-searching-1.7376817

A good article - here is an excerpt:

More bread and butter and less Oprah.

That's what some strategists suggest is needed to fix a demoralized Democratic Party recovering from its electoral thumping on Tuesday night.

The finger pointing, recriminations and soul searching has begun in earnest in the wake of the U.S. election, which saw former Republican president Donald Trump soundly defeat current Democratic Vice-President Kamala Harris. Some Democrats are now calling for a reckoning within the party to determine what went wrong and what needs to change if they want to win future elections.

"This was wholescale repudiation of the Democratic Party at every level," said Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis in a phone interview with CBC News, noting the party saw a drop in support in every city, county and state. "We lost Democratic support across the board.

"We act like our product is great, why didn't everybody buy it?" he said. "That product sucks — and that's why people didn't buy it."

According to Kofinis and other political strategists and observers, the Democratic Party has either dismissed, minimized or stopped listening to issues that are most important to the average voter.
"If you're spending more time talking about social and cultural issues than you do about economic issues, you're going to lose," he said.

It's a similar argument made by Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders who, in a statement following the election, said that a party that has abandoned the working class shouldn't be surprised that the "working class have abandoned them."
"Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign?" Sanders said in his statement.

-- 'Never hang out with celebrity elites' --

And Kofinis says his biggest piece of advice for the Democrats would be to abandon their famous pals.

While Trump himself may be one of the most recognized names on the planet, Kofinis says a series of celebrity endorsements and the appearance of megastars like Oprah Winfrey and Beyoncé at Harris campaign rallies could signify a broader fundamental problem for the Democrats: it gives voters the impression the party has lost touch with the average person.
 
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PuntMeister

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I know like you most of us want to move on as quickly as possible from the shit show but it is for the understanding of an event that some if us keep thinking at the cause of the results. When regular logic does not apply OCD people like many of us keep digging...lol
A few things I hear the Democrats and analysts finally reflecting on:

1. The assumption that more votes could have changed the election outcome. The losses in virtually all demographics do not support this wishful thinking.

2. Voting for the Republicans was an illogical decision. This needs to be challenged at the deepest core. For the citizens that chose to vote Republican, it was a completely logical decision for them to go with the party they thought would best preserve their jobs, put food on their family table, and improve their sense of security.

3. Wrong priorities and wishy-washy brand promise. Hate him or love him, Trump’s branding and marketing are vastly superior. He stands for one two clear things, like MAGA, which currently means economy and security. What does Harris stand for? What’s here brand promise? Let’s see, abortion rights, decency, I grew up poor, Trump bad, and more of the same (she said she wouldn’t change anything Biden did—failure to accept and learn from shortcomings). Again, trying to be a bunch of social causes was ill-timed and poor marketing, even if those causes have long term merrit.

4. She came off as a priviledged white-collar do-gooder. Trump, the real spoiled child, came off as the blue collar champion. Senator Bernie Sanders who, in a statement following the election, said that a party that has abandoned the working class shouldn't be surprised that the "working class have abandoned them."

5. Although the Democrat machine failed to pull Biden in time to get the country to warm up to a prosecutor, “she did her best in 100 days” is just another excuse. She did well in the debate, had the momentum, and then lost it, because her product sucked, her target audience was misplaced and even they didn’t buy what she was selling. Should have prioritized Joe Rogan over SNL / Beyonce / Oprah, who are now seen as even more biased and annoying preachers of social messages in times of economic challenge.

There are more factors at play of course, but failing to not only accept defeat but also accept fundamental value mistakes will not help them in 2028.
 
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