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USA Political Discussion Thread 2025

PuntMeister

Punt-on!
Jul 13, 2003
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There are far more than just 3.

The Parkland refinery in Burnaby is still operating, but it is not a very big one by global standards. There was once another in the Port Moody / Ioco area but that closed.
It's a fallacy that the TMX pipeline was designed to make Canadian (BC) fuel supplies cheaper. The expansion of the pipeline was entirely for export out of Canada to foreign producers.
One brinch of it does go into Washington State and feed the refineries at Cherry point, and they do send some refined fuel up here to the Lower Mainland. But the previous Trans Mountain pipeline already did all that, so keep in mind the expanded pipeline and the new oil (bitumen) terminal at the end of it is really just for exports.

Now if they were to rip down that other old refinery site in Ioco and build a new modern refinery there, then you might see it change Lower Mainland fuel supplies, but that was never the oil companies' intention with their projects, nor any of their pet politicians like Harper, Pollievre, Rustad, etc. They only cared about exports, mainly to the USA for the USA's needs.
In terms of self-sufficiency, the number of refineries is not as relevant as the capacity of those refineries to produce the gasoline that Canada needs.

A bit of research indicates that Canada has a slightly higher refining capacity than consumption. However, it may not be in the right places, and as noted, already committed to exports. Canada’s refineries are operating at somewhere around 89% of capacity apparently. Some expansion of existing refinery capacity may be possible, but I don’t see any major new refineries in Canada any time soon.

An updated national strategy on oil and gas supply vs. Imports/exports would be refreshing. I remember when then Feds got into turning Gulf oil into PetroCanada. Can’t say it was successful (government confusing policy with supply management), but there was some inkling of national energy need at the time. I still prefer to fill up at Petrocan.
 
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rlock

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May 20, 2015
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In terms of self-sufficiency, the number of refineries is not as relevant as the capacity of those refineries to produce the gasoline that Canada needs.

A bit of research indicates that Canada has a slightly higher refining capacity than consumption. However, it may not be in the right places, and as noted, already committed to exports. Canada’s refineries are operating at somewhere around 89% of capacity apparently. Some expansion of existing refinery capacity may be possible, but I don’t see any major new refineries in Canada any time soon.

An updated national strategy on oil and gas supply vs. Imports/exports would be refreshing. I remember when then Feds got into turning Gulf oil into PetroCanada. Can’t say it was successful (government confusing policy with supply management), but there was some inkling of national energy need at the time. I still prefer to fill up at Petrocan.

Indeed, a great deal of it is parked in Alberta. Back east, Orillia, Montreal, and St. John NB seem to be the main places, but the oddity of it is that US refineries in Texas seem to need the kind of heavy oil Canada has (and Venezuela, good luck with that one, Yanks).
This "total capacity" is not super useful when all it means is they have to put either the feedstock or fiuel on some long train and hope it doesn't turn out like Lac Megantic.

Understandable that AB has an abundance, but then comes complex issues like the use of Cherry Point WA, or the fact the ones in Orillia have to use a pipeline that runs through Michigan rather than around the lakes in northern Ontario. At the time, they just said "shortest most economical route", because they never imagined that the USA could be dumb enough to threaten Canada and therefore we'd need to avoid reliance on them. Now it is like all those gas pipelines from Russia to Europe that go through Ukraine. :oops:

It still does not explain why of all the proposed pipeline projects, only one was ever geared towards supporting Canadian refineries and fuel supply (Energy East). Canada's oil patch has long been corrupted by US influence if not by outright US ownership.
 
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masterpoonhunter

"Marriage should be a renewable contract"
Sep 15, 2019
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So it is pretty much a full on "you fuck us, we fuck you" trade war.
US liquor and wines will be off the shelves although that thing about being brewed and bottled under license needs some working out.
Haven't seen the list if there is one yet of what manufactured goods and materials will go up 25% or so.
Not sure exactly how long it will take for the general pain to percolate through the economies but it will.
All because of some fat fuck convicted rapist felon being given the keys to the ranch. And this bimbo above is just so typical of the absolute fucking shit for brains the collective ruling class has there.
 

masterblaster

Well-known member
May 19, 2004
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just look at what the orange Jesus said the other day

he thinks the U.S was the best off in 1880-1913

yeah, the good old days

yet people keep acting like they're not dealing with a dementia patient
He doesn’t seem to realize those days are gone forever. His stupidity is beyond belief.
 
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Pumped

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Dec 13, 2022
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I am positive SOME others on this forum will agree, it is impossible to debate stupid! Google is not in the business to educate stupid people. It uses algorithms based on search criteria. Google it😎
Yes, you are absolutely undeniable proof that it is impossible to debate stupid.
 
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masterpoonhunter

"Marriage should be a renewable contract"
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The list is out as to what tariffs Canada is putting to US goods and it is extensive. Not sure what the US is putting on their list. Anyway a few exchanges this morning with various folks in my general sphere of influence and this came back from a republican friend of mine in Florida. Not sure where he got it but I thought geez, does this cover it or what. VERY long read but I think it gets it. OK no more super long posts from me for now:



The coup, let me state, is never the end of the story. It may be the beginning of one here and now, and we may be able to write some of the next chapters. Because this coup is as stupid as it is ruthless, and it is going to blow up in their faces in all kinds of ways they did not imagine, because they do not imagine; they fantasize. Making it clear that this is catastrophic, and who is to blame, is part of the job. So is pressing politicians to do their job and exercising our full powers as civil society.

Timothy Snyder writes (in part): The best people in American federal law enforcement, national security, and national intelligence are being fired. The reasons given for this are DEI and trumpwashing the past. Of course, if you fire everyone who was concerned in some way with the investigations of January 6th or of Russia, that will be much or even most of the FBI. Those are bad reasons, but the reality is worse: the aim is lawlessness: to get the police and the patriots out of the way.

In the logic of destruction, there is no need to rebuild afterwards. In this chaos, the oligarchs will tell us that there is no choice but to have a strong man in charge. It can be a befuddled Trump signing ever larger pieces of paper for the cameras, or a conniving Vance who, unlike Trump, has always known the plot. Or someone else.

After we are all poor and isolated, the logic goes, we will be consoled by the thought that there is at least a human being to whom we can appeal. We will settle for a kind of anthropological minimum, wishful contact with the strong man. As in Russia, pathetic video selfies sent to the Leader will be the extent of politics.

For the men currently pillaging the federal government, the data from those video selfies is more important than the people who will make them. The new world they imagine is not just anti-American but anti-human. The people are just data, means to the end of accumulating wealth.

They see themselves as the servants of the freedom of the chosen few, but in fact they are possessed, like millennia of tyrants before them, of fantastic dreams: they will live forever, they will go to Mars. None of that will happen; they will die here on Earth, with the rest of us, their only legacy, if we let it happen, one of ruins. They are god-level brainrotted.

The attempt by the oligarchs to destroy our government is illegal, unconstitutional, and more than a little mad. The people in charge, though, are very intelligent politically, and have a plan. I describe it not because it must succeed but because it must be described so that we can make it fail. This will require clarity, and speed, and coalitions. I try to capture the mood in my little book On Tyranny. Here are a few ideas.

Upgrade to paid
If you voted Republican, and you care about your country, please act rather than rationalize. Unless you cast your ballot so that South African oligarchs could steal your data, your money, your country, and your future, make it known to your elected officials that you wanted something else. And get ready to protest with people with whom you otherwise disagree.
Almost everything that has happened during this attempted takeover is illegal. Lawsuits can be filed and courts can order that executive orders be halted. This is crucial work.
Much of what is happening, though, involves private individuals whose names are not even known, and who have no legal authority, wandering through government offices and issuing orders beyond even the questionable authority of executive orders. Their idea is that they will be immunized by their boldness. This must be proven wrong.
Some of this will reach the Supreme Court quickly. I am under no illusion that the majority of justices care about the rule of law. They know, however, that our belief in it makes their office something other than the undignified handmaiden of oligarchy. If they legalize the coup, they are irrelevant forever.
Individual Democrats in the Senate and House have legal and institutional tools to slow down the attempted oligarchical takeover. There should also be legislation. It might take a moment, but even Republican leaders might recognize that the Senate and House will no longer matter in a post-American oligarchy without citizens.
Trump should obviously be impeached. Either he has lost control, or he is using his power to do obviously illegal things. If Republicans have a sense of where this is going, there could be the votes for an impeachment and prosecution.
Those considering impeachment should also include Vance. He is closer to the relevant oligarchs than Trump, and more likely to be aware of the logic of destruction than he. The oligarchs have likely factored in, or perhaps even want, the impeachment and prosecution of Trump. Unlike Vance, Trump has charisma and followers, and could theoretically resist them. He won’t; but he poses a hypothetical risk to the oligarchs that Vance does not.
Democrats who serve in state office as governors have a chance to profile themselves, or more importantly to profile an America that still works. Attorneys general in states have a chance to enforce state laws, which will no doubt have been broken.
The Democratic Party has a talented new chair. Democrats will need instruments of active opposition, such as a People’s Cabinet, in which prominent Democrats take responsibility for following government departments. It would be really helpful to have someone who can report to the press and the people what is happening inside Justice, Defense, Transportation, and the Treasury, and all the others, starting this week.
Federal workers should stay in office, if they can, for as long as they can. This is not political, but existential, for them and for all of us. They will have a better chance of getting jobs afterwards if they are fired. And the logic of their firing is to make the whole government fail. The more this can be slowed down, the longer the rest of us have to get traction.
And companies? As every CEO knows, the workings of markets depend upon the government creating a fair playing field. The ongoing takeover will make life impossible for all but a few companies. Can American companies responsibly pay taxes to a US Treasury controlled by their private competitors? Tesla paid no federal tax at all in 2024. Should other companies pay taxes that, for all they know, will just enrich Tesla’s owner?
Commentators should please stop using words such as “digital” and “progress” and “efficiency” and “vision” when describing this coup attempt. The plotting oligarchs have legacy money from an earlier era of software, which they are now seeking to leverage, using destructive political techniques, to destroy human institutions. That’s it. They are offering no future beyond acting out their midlife crises on the rest of us. It is demeaning to pretend that they represent something besides a logic of destruction.
As for the rest of us: Make sure you are talking to people and doing something. The logic of “move fast and break things,” like the logic of all coups, is to gain quick dramatic successes that deter and demoralize and create the impression of inevitability. Nothing is inevitable. Do not be alone and do not be dismayed. Find someone who is doing something you admire and join them.
What is a country? The way its people govern themselves. Sometimes self-government just means elections. And sometimes it means recognizing the deeper dignity and meaning of what it means to be a people. That means speaking up, standing out, and protesting. We can only be free together.


Never in my life did I expect anything like this but then who expected the level of stupidity to reach as high as it has in the US gov.
 

Mrmotorscooter

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2017
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The Evil Empire is pounding at our gate, can it get more toxic than fucking Orange psychopath!🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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carvesg

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Feb 2, 2010
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Hey hey hey, I live here for a reason! And like I was just explaining to people at the bar, after getting booed for saying that I was an American...

I've been here since Obama! Gimme some credit.
In your case ...you deserve a credit of 50% ... stuck between a rock and a hard place.

How much explaining do you have to do with Canadians and Americans (minus motorman obviously) in your daily life when learning about your motherland and subsequent move ?
 

VanCityNewb

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2015
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In your case ...you deserve a credit of 50% ... stuck between a rock and a hard place.

How much explaining do you have to do with Canadians and Americans (minus motorman obviously) in your daily life when learning about your motherland and subsequent move ?
I was just explaining this at the bar. A friend of mine one complained about the hate they received for being American. My reply was, in my experience, if you don't bring it up yourself, it's not even really a problem to begin with.

Stereotypically, Americans tend to be loud and boisterous about it. I've been here long enough, it's not the kind of thing I really talk about openly or bring up, unless there's a specific reason to. So it's not even much of an issue. And if I do, it's usually in the context of a light hearted joke, which Canadians just laugh and move onto the next thing. I've heard about other Americans getting shit left on their car or said to them in traffic for having American plates. But again, if you're not openly advertising it, it shouldn't be much of an issue. 🤷‍♂️
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
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Hey hey hey, I live here for a reason! And like I was just explaining to people at the bar, after getting booed for saying that I was an American...

I've been here since Obama! Gimme some credit.
I mean, there are too many USA immigrants stealing our jobs IMHO , but *shrug*
 
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VanCityNewb

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2015
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I mean, there are too many USA immigrants stealing our jobs IMHO , but *shrug*
If you had Canadians who could do my job, I wouldn't be here. My employers are required to submit labor assessment surveys that show there are not enough qualified Canadians in the workforce to perform the functions required by my job. They always make sure to highlight that delays in hiring me would cost them money and potentially lead to them divesting from the market place. 🤷‍♂️
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
1,199
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Vancouver
If you had Canadians who could do my job, I wouldn't be here. My employers are required to submit labor assessment surveys that show there are not enough qualified Canadians in the workforce to perform the functions required by my job. They always make sure to highlight that delays in hiring me would cost them money and potentially lead to them divesting from the market place. 🤷‍♂️
Not to quibble too much but im pretty sure there are Canadians who can do your job and that compensation is factoring in your employer going to the States to hire...otherwise there would be sufficient demand for us to actually mint our own 'qualified' candidates. Perverse inscentives as they say.
 
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