Umm... to a certain Madame... Newsflash: The economy is tanking!

[athaire]

...and thank you for being honest about how you feel about your clients.

Ya I kinda find that remark about not having the brains to do the job offensive as well.....

I don't believe the client should criticize an individual sp for the business model they choose, but to suggest that the client can't voice an opinion on a the value of a particular service?!?! That's just offensive.

Words of wisdom sir......this debate has been going on as long as the hobby has been around so I don't see why anyone would think that the clients would not be still discussing it far into the future.....

 

[Jerika]

Island-guy, thanks for restating smackyo's post. I, similar to Violet, initially understood his post to mean "all" girls in the industry lived designer lifestyles. Gotcha.

I like your comments, Pantherdash, about clothes and make-up. It depends on where a girl starts her sp journey.

If she starts at the "high end" agencies, they promote a look similar to a Penthouse model. So lotsa pricey cosmetics and enhancements. Some men expect this look. Then with repeated expectations, an sp might believe these are all men's desires.

If a girl starts her sp journey at well-managed mid-range agencies, the pressure for high-maintenance appearances is less.

So different theories of sp appearances, come from different people, hence the differences.

...yeah, hence!

 

[classycarly]

Ummm...you don't need a license to work as an SP in BC. The only jurisdiction I know that requires a licence is Alberta, so if you've been paying some government fat-cat for a licence, sweety it's time to get a refund. Plus, technically, he'd be living off the avails of prostitution.

Just wanted to point that out.Panther

Actually, in Victoria, BC you do require a license.
Just thought I'd point that out. So technically, the City of Victoria is profiting off the avails of prostitution.

 

[Claptix]

In the ten years I have been posting on adult services boards (going back to usenet ASP groups) there have always been posts communicating rates are too high.

I have never understood this. It is quite simple. If someone providing any service can get the amount of income they desire charging a certain fee they will continue to do so.

How many of you calling for reduced fees have went to your managers and said "well the economy is not doing very well, i think i will accept a pay decrease to help out".

Cheers,
JC

 

[smackyo]

Umm... did you mean to say $150 for half an hour? I certainly haven't see anyone who normally charges $250/hr putting on specials of $150 for 1 & 1/2 hours...



First of all, there are plenty of SPs who charge far less than $400 an hour. Secondly the key words in this post were the lifestyles "SOME of" the girls have. Thirdly, even someone who does charge $400 per one hour appt does not "make" $400 an hour. If they work for an agency, their take-home is probably about $275, if that, then out of that they have to pay for their transportation, license, condoms, lubricant & massage oils etc, expensive clothes & lingerie, hair & makeup, body hair removal & other esthetics, perhaps even expensive "enhancements" such as plastic surgery or hair extensions (with the higher-end girls many clients would expect these things), professional photography & advertising if those things aren't included by the agency, & so on... Then tack on up to an hour spent getting ready for each appt, & their "hourly wage" goes down to about $75 or less. Then remember that they are not being paid for 8 hours a day like a normal job, more like half that (& that's if they're popular), & their rate of pay doesn't sound nearly so extravagent.

If the girl is an independent, instead of agency fees she has to cover the cost of renting her incall location, bills such as electricity, phone & internet, the furnishings, linens & towels, cleaning supplies, personal hygeine products for the clients (mouthwash, bodywash, etc), all her own advertising & photography etc, in addition to all the things I already listed above, plus she has to spend a lot of additional time answering her phone, emails, & PMs, posting her ads, cleaning her incall location & otherwise getting it & herself ready for her appts. There is a lot of time we put into our jobs other than just the time spent in actual appointments. For example, I spend several hours every night just replying to emails & PMs.

So, before you go thinking that SPs are making 100% profit on what we charge, or coming up with what you think we make in your head by imagining we make $400 times 40 hrs a week, (which is totally untrue), think about all of these additional costs, (the vast majority of which one would not have for a "regular" job), & things that take up a lot of time which we are not paid for. Then also factor in that the vast majority of SPs, (including myself), charge nowhere near $400/hr, & really very very few of us are making ridiculous amounts of money or leading extravagent lifestyles with designer purses. We can make a comfortable living without having any formal education, & that is one of the reasons why many women choose this job, but don't for a minute try to make us all out to be greedy princesses who have massive disposable incomes & are preying on all the poor broke pooners.

Remember, seeing SPs is, contrary to popular belief, not a neccessity, & if someone really can't afford it he should stop doing it, rather than bitching about the prices all the time, (this comment is not specifically directed at the posters in this particular thread, just at a certain group of posters I have noticed on this board).

you do make some valid points but let me just point out that we all have our expenses. its called "living" i to have to pay rent, my phone bills, electric, gas and maintenance on my car to get me to and from work, tools and clothing for work (which isn't cheap), internet, the list goes on.

we all have our expenses is my point and from this end we all don't live in luxury condo's in yaletown or have $1500 to blow on a purse.

now i suppose i am generalizing, but i'm quite sure many of these ladies live that lifestyle. i've known girls at the low end of the pay scale as friends. the money they made blew me away.

go out there and work full time in retail or service, swing a hammer for 9 hours a day or some other manual labor job, for wages between $10 to $30 an hour with the taxes taken off after, then tell me how anxious you are to pay $400 for an hour of someones time and service, so they can live "a decent lifestyle" which in some cases far out weighs your own.

 

[FortunateOne]

The Madame was referring to a new half hour rate, not a price decrease by that well-known provider. I don't know what she or anyone else was getting so upset about. High end sps need to get a little more creative and bit more flexible as to what they offer. A lot of the escorts have never offered half hour rates, or 45s, and required 2 hour minimums and haven't even considered non-fs options. If there are fewer clients out there, and I don't just mean with less $$$, just less in general, then it is time to target a different market. One of those markets is the client who simply does not have that kind of time (hour to 2hours) or is simply not interested in full service ever.

White sps do not compete with asian micros, period. Again, their market is different, their type of service is different and their expenses are higher. There is a significant number of clients who have zero interest in "group hugs" by going to a micro where there are half a dozen other people around. They are willing to pay more to be alone in the apt with the sp. To offer this, an sp has higher expenses. It is the difference, I am sure you can identify with, in living alone or having one or more room-mates.

There are very few independent sp who doesn't spend a couple of thousand a month on advertising alone (intenet sites, website, perb, banners, newpaper, etc). If they didn't, you wouldn't even know about them, would you? Focusing on hair and makeup is a frivolous attempt to make it seem like the expenses mentioned are frivolous lol. The real expenses allow the client to be able to see that sp any day any time. If she didn't charge enough to cover these expenses in a very short period of time, she would have to quit, save herself these thousands of dollars, and no longer be available at all.

Endless comparison of a preferred type or price is just wasted effort. There are actually just as many bad reviews for the cheap asian as there are for higher priced non-asian, as there are bad reviews for cheap priced non-asian lol. There have actually been a LOT of bad reviews for the asian micros, btw. And there are actually more bad reviews for lower priced non-asian than there ever are of higher priced non-asian sps.

 

[CJ Tylers]

You know, it's funny, this topic comes up periodically. I think the definitive answer is:

The women run a business that operates under the same principles of any other business. Those that can't or won't adapt to modern markets don't survive... just like the Bay, or Woolco/Woodwards, and a few of the companies I worked for in past. They will do whatever they need to do in order to keep business at a level that they feel is appropriate.

Any other discussion on the fact is kind of mute.

 

[SidGuy]

imho...

SP's can charge whatever they want, that said, if they are charging to much, they'll get less business. Tough time and a poor economy means demand will go down. It's 100% up to the SP if she wants to adjust her prices to adapt.

If I was a SP, things I might factor into what I want to charge is..

-how busy I am/how many clients you WANT to see/day
-cost of living
-industry costs (advertising, clothes, work phone...all the hidden cost SP's have that might not be obvious)
-approximate hourly profit wanted
-economic forcast...ppl out of work means less 'free' cash to buy things like sex

Keep in mind, no one is forcing you to see SP's. If you want to see a specific girl but think she's overpriced...don't see her. Maybe other pooners are thinking the same thing and if enough guys aren't seeing a SP because of her prices, she'll probably lower them.

Personally I have two favorate SP's, both in the $200 or less range. I don't think more money/hour means better service. I've tried more "expensive" SP's, but I just have a better time with my ATFs. While I appreciate the lower rates, I'd still see my 2 girls if they raise the rate. Lower hourly rate for me just means that I'll poon more often and if I'm getting wicked service, I'll most likely splurge a little and do something extra for the girls like gifts, tips, or maybe a night out on the town.

 

[trackstar]

Honestly, I think everybody is taking out the piss on Madame J for nothing. I don't think she was intending to communicate anything negative about anyone.

If you read her post, she is simply asking for feedback on how much is a fair rate to charge considering the level of service and amenities her business has to offer.

She asked:

1. "Don't get me wrong, YOU are the king, the consumer and the ones with the $$$$ but is there NO value attached to what we have to offer"...considering the amenities that she does offer.

2. "And if not, what is a comfortable rate for you that will ensure you come in regularly to keep my girls working and in money."

3. "So PLEASE, enlighten me....I am here for you and I want to know!"

I don't think there was anything disrespectful said to anybody or anything. She did comment how some girls who normally have higher rates discounted them but still weren't getting business. I don't think she was pressuring anybody to keep rates up.

I think that all her comments and queries were not only fair but respectful requests to get valuable feedback from the marketplace - isn't that what we as clients would like to get from the ladies?

Anyways...at least that's my take on her post.

Where-as I took it to be a slam on the ladies offering discounts with a whole lot of sugar coating and attempted misdirection so as not to come off as she did to everyone else but you.

Anyways...at least that's my take on her post.

 

[maroonedsailor]

Wtf?????

You know, it's funny, this topic comes up periodically. I think the definitive answer is:

The women run a business that operates under the same principles of any other business. Those that can't or won't adapt to modern markets don't survive... just like the Bay, or Woolco/Woodwards, and a few of the companies I worked for in past. They will do whatever they need to do in order to keep business at a level that they feel is appropriate.

Any other discussion on the fact is kind of mute.

CJ said it all - I really don't get the discussion. I charge 65 an hour to come to your house and do plumbing. With drive time etc. I post a 2 hour minimum. Other plumbers charge more and some charge less. My rate is based on low overhead and the fact that I get a lot done in a short amount of time which makes for happy customers. I also solve problems other plumbers seem unable to solve which adds value to my services. Some days I get 8 hours in but most days I don't. If I'm lucky I average 4 hours a day PAID work and I'm on the road about 6 to 8 hours, buying parts, finding a location, eating lunch etc. I also have to pay for my van, gas, tools of my trade and a ton of other misc. expenses. How is this different from your friendly neighborhood working girl???????? I think some of you guys have a hugely inflated opinion of how much your fav SP actually puts in her pocket. Do you really think they turn 5 tricks a day at $$ per???????? Could YOU????

It's WORK dealing with (and I don't include all of us clients here but you know who you are) smelly, hairy, ugly, lonely, limp dicked assholes all day and trying to smile while doing it. In most cases I'd guess that two per day is about the limit. IMO these ladies deserve every nickle they earn and the market will always set hourly rates substantially higher than average for work that is substantially more difficult and dangerous than average. If you can't afford to drive a Lincoln either be happy with a used Pinto, ride a bike, walk, take a bus or find a way to earn more money, but bitching at FMC won't give you a Navigator at Focus prices. (unless you're a professional race car driver and get paid to ride the best LOL) Oh yeah - that should be 'drive the best' shouldn't it???

 

[lil'miss mischa]

violet, its called an overhead. honestly now.
those are minor expenses. (i know, i but them too!)
most of which you would be buying regardless if you worked at a regular job or not. btw an sp does not have to be licensed in vc but she does have the option to be. that being said once you are licensed you can actually be refunded for many of your expenses on your tax return.
you can get huge boxes of free condoms and lube from many of the walk in clinics in vc. so count those expenses out unless you have a personal prefference...

everyone loves to live a comfortable lifestyle, personally i am no richer then anyone else. at times i struggle just like anyone. so high rates or low rates or medium rates don't really matter. the reality is that we are all being effected by the economic crisis which is what this thread was all about in the beginning. and if we aren't yet, we will be.

i'd love to justify my designer bags and shoes, pricey make up etc...but those are a luxury not a necessity. the sooner you come to terms with that the better...for you!

btw i hate when people generalise on here, not ALL girls live like malibu barbie, not ALL clients expect us to look like princesses, not ALL clients are broke either. generalising just poses for more irritating an uneducated postings (not to mention rude)

fyi buds. whoever said "it doesn't take a high level of intelligence to sell your body". well your just being rude and hurtful now.
i don't think that comment was necessary nor was it worth anything - what does that have to do with anything being discussed?

and just so you aren't mistaken it actually does take a lot. being an sp can be very emotionally. physically and mentally taxing never mind the amount of patience and acceptance that is called for on a regular basis. no sp would be remotely successful if she didn't have just a little brain power, thick skin and a backbone. oh and don't forget most of us girls don't work on a regular 9-5 schedule and our lives often end up revolving around our "jobs" 24/7 - 365 which strains our personal relationships and responsibilities. so please don't come out with any more ignorant comments like our lives are so peachy and easy and all we do is spread our legs, lay back and count the ceiling tiles. how rude!! some of us actually take pride in what we do and do it very well.

but back to the point. these details are really and truly irrelevant to the basic point of this thread originally. which was that you should all be getting your dicks sucked right now by someone who can read a paper and put 2 and 2 together... LOL

 

[itooam1]

I know my current SP, works a nine to five job and SP's on the side for extra income and recreation.(she likes sex alot)
I am sure she is not the only one(okay i am not sure she is the only one)but my point is people do what they must.

Walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you claim to know anything about them.......Live, love,be merry and for fuck sake get outside and help someone out instead of bitching about dumb ass stuff that doesnt do anything but remind everyone how truly ignorant people are.......me,me,me!

 

[trackstar]

violet, its called an overhead. honestly now.
those are minor expenses. (i know, i but them too!)
most of which you would be buying regardless if you worked at a regular job or not. btw an sp does not have to be licensed in vc but she does have the option to be. that being said once you are licensed you can actually be refunded for many of your expenses on your tax return.
you can get huge boxes of free condoms and lube from many of the walk in clinics in vc. so count those expenses out unless you have a personal prefference...

everyone loves to live a comfortable lifestyle, personally i am no richer then anyone else. at times i struggle just like anyone. so high rates or low rates or medium rates don't really matter. the reality is that we are all being effected by the economic crisis which is what this thread was all about in the beginning. and if we aren't yet, we will be.

i'd love to justify my designer bags and shoes, pricey make up etc...but those are a luxury not a necessity. the sooner you come to terms with that the better...for you!

btw i hate when people generalise on here, not ALL girls live like malibu barbie, not ALL clients expect us to look like princesses, not ALL clients are broke either. generalising just poses for more irritating an uneducated postings (not to mention rude)

fyi buds. whoever said "it doesn't take a high level of intelligence to sell your body". well your just being rude and hurtful now.
i don't think that comment was necessary nor was it worth anything - what does that have to do with anything being discussed?

and just so you aren't mistaken it actually does take a lot. being an sp can be very emotionally. physically and mentally taxing never mind the amount of patience and acceptance that is called for on a regular basis. no sp would be remotely successful if she didn't have just a little brain power, thick skin and a backbone. oh and don't forget most of us girls don't work on a regular 9-5 schedule and our lives often end up revolving around our "jobs" 24/7 - 365 which strains our personal relationships and responsibilities. so please don't come out with any more ignorant comments like our lives are so peachy and easy and all we do is spread our legs, lay back and count the ceiling tiles. how rude!! some of us actually take pride in what we do and do it very well.

but back to the point. these details are really and truly irrelevant to the basic point of this thread originally. which was that you should all be getting your dicks sucked right now by someone who can read a paper and put 2 and 2 together... LOL

I think that you and Susi should get to know each other better. You both have a very healthy and intelligent way of existing and advocating for your profession. Very impressive

 

[wet_suit_one]

I was pointing out that she was calling her clients stupid. Seriously, it doesn't take a high level of intelligence to sell your body.

I believe that you are in error. There's a big difference between what Jaime does and being a streetwalker. Also, there is a considerable amount of time effort and energy and know how (yes, know how) in learning to deal with every tom dick and harry that comes along and wants to play with the goods and make them have a good time. Oh yeah, and stay sane at the same time.

I know I cannot do that. Maybe you can't appreciate the difficulty and talents required for that kind of work (her work is not the only one where such skills are useful or necessary), but I certainly can.

 

[maroonedsailor]

Sorry

Is plumber"crack" included or extra?

I don't do crack

 

[maroonedsailor]

one fucks ya ..........and one fucks ya over..............

YOU DECIDE


(made in jest)

xoxo

God grant me the power to know which is which LOL

 

[island-guy]

I believe that you are in error. There's a big difference between what Jaime does and being a streetwalker. Also, there is a considerable amount of time effort and energy and know how (yes, know how) in learning to deal with every tom dick and harry that comes along and wants to play with the goods and make them have a good time. Oh yeah, and stay sane at the same time.

I know I cannot do that. Maybe you can't appreciate the difficulty and talents required for that kind of work (her work is not the only one where such skills are useful or necessary), but I certainly can.

Saying that most of her clients don't have "The Brains" to be escorts is a pretty big insult and is REALLY calling them stupid.

Not anyone can be an escort, especially not a good one, that's true. But...

I can think of a few really really good escorts who seriously were over standing in the boob and/or beauty lines for second helpings when brains were being handed out (not talking about Jamie, never met her). It really does NOT require a lot of intelligence to be a good escort, if you have other qualities that make up for it

 

[Krustee]

You all have been waiting for the `fall" for how many years now?

Yes thats right we sit at home wringing our hands with glee as we watch the economic fright fest on the news play out.

We get a rise out of the knowledge that once there is enough people unemployed & we are in the throws of a full on Depression complete with massive soup lines, homeless shelters & the like, we will finally see the SP Union`s back broken & the girls groveling for a mere pittance of their former highfalutin glory day pricing.

Lawyers are costly, accountants too.....why? cause you need them.
You can go find a cheap lawyer but its not the same. Pretty soon you will end up forking out the proper amount for a good one.

I said suppliers, not product my shit disturbing little friend Lawyers and accountants are educated, licensed, certified and have minimal qualifications. If a man wants sex, he can put up with the hassle of dating, marriage, going to the bars, etc, or for convenience`s sake, visit an escort. He cannot, however do the same when wanting the services of a lawyer or accountant

This is one of the most disturbing things to me.

I realize that some escorts are indeed VERY professional & good at their job but, why do Escorts constantly compare themselves to Lawyers, Accountants (CGA), Psychologists & other professionals in the marketplace who all have a MINIMUM of 4 years University education not including their undergraduate education.

Why do Escorts think their bedroom skills are equivalent to a university degree?
Most Masters degreed professionals are earning between $55,000 & $75,000 per year.

Why should an escort earn 2 & 3 times that?

Take a look at the average of salaries here:
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Country=Canada/Salary/by_State
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Country=Canada/Salary
Here`s the differentiation with degree level:
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearning/?article=mastersdegrees

Of my 13 plus years in this "hobby" I have only met ONE gal who had a legitimate degree, I saw it & it was a bachelors in business.
I have had countless gals tell me they are educated & have a degree that they don`t use but only one has been willing to show it to me.

I am not knocking escorts but merely pointing out that for those who do not have a degree, you should not be discounting those who have spent the effort, time & money to get one.

I work with peeps who mostly have Masters & PhD`s & I can say without reservation that they are VERY intelligent & mostly hard working people who help keep Canada on the leading edge of technology & development in their profession.

Escorts can charge $3000 per hour if they want but at that rate they are quite limited in their prospective clientèle.
For those not capable of staying afloat at the higher rate it may be conducive to their business to lower the rate to a level that allows them to maintain a constant income from clients they are comfortable seeing.

jamie lane, i`m sorry but i have to point out just how far out of pocket your comment was. 1st of all, do you realize its these men who are our clients? the men who call, come and pay our bills? you should show more respect then that if you value or appreciate your lifestyle. please speak for yourself when coming so far out of pocket.

fyi the majority of our clients work normal jobs for normal wages and save their extra cash to come see us. its easy to get a clouded vision of reality when we are used to ridiculous lifestyles and never really having to worry about our cash flo...but... "respectfully"

Good points here mischa this part of your post reminds me of a post made by Jess a little while back:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98486

times are tough for everyone and its going to get worse before it gets better...for all of us regardless of our roles we play in poonland..when reality hits its going to effect us all..

Yes it is & I have been actively trying to alert members here about the coming storm but have received lots of flak for doing so.

... vancouver adult industry is already flooded and with less clients and money to go around...its extremely naive to not expect extreme competition ie. lower prices.

btw lower prices does not mean lower standards. all of the time. yes i have usually agreed that there should be something said for quality vs. quantity. but granted our nations financial situation i can only empathize with anyone who is offering lower rates.
... i have been having this conversation all day with my bff and we agree that alot is going to have to change, the strong will survive. game on lol

Yes it will be the strong who will survive.

Those who know how to market themselves will do well as long as the service matches the advert.

What pooners will be looking for in this new reality is VALUE.

Many will still be willing to sacrifice a bit more to get a truly awesome experience.

I`ll also admit that the Asian girls have a lot of their living expenses paid for while they`re here but the independent Asian SPs like Ivy and Sheila have to absorb most of the same costs that you have, yet they still maintain their low prices. Why? To remain competitive. And many of them do a pretty good job of it. I`m not making a racial distinction, but IN MY EXPERIENCE Asian SPs have usually been much better at providing the needs that I want and look for in a woman, and I`m not the only one here. Not nearly the same experience and connection with the Caucasian women that I`ve seen. Again, some have been good, but MOST have been, err, not what I was looking for and at almost double the price!

I dated a European SP a while back about 5 years ago, and all she kept complaining about was how the Asian SPs are taking away her business and how they give up their assholes for $100 an hour and have BBFS with ALL their clients and how they smell like mothballs and all this other stuff that I quickly got tired of. And when I actually tried an Asian girl, all her crap could not have been further from the truth. So yes, I KNOW that it bothers many of the non-Asian SPs how they take away their business, not all but some. And yes, indeed these Asian girls know how to play the game and remain competitive, but I`ll tell you one thing, it`s not by charging $400 an hour and then complaining and wondering why they aren`t getting any business...and sticking their noses up at the prospective of having to lower their prices to $150 an hour just to stay afloat in the worst economic downturn the world has seen in several generations.

Panther

Um... amen

Where these asian gals come from $150phr is actually good.

White sps do not compete with asian micros, period.

Again, their market is different, their type of service is different and their expenses are higher.

There are very few independent sp who doesn`t spend a couple of thousand a month on advertising alone (intenet sites, website, perb, banners, newpaper, etc). If they didn`t, you wouldn`t even know about them, would you?

If she didn`t charge enough to cover these expenses in a very short period of time, she would have to quit, save herself these thousands of dollars, and no longer be available at all.

Well correct me if I`m wrong here but all the above expenses are a part of doing business & if it is required for doing business then it is 100% tax deductible!

Please have these gals forward their receipts for said expenses & I will offer my services for free to ensure they receive the full deductions on their income taxes this year.

 

[lickrolaine]

tough economic times lead to tough mental decisions,,,,,,
a year from now when you look back at all this bs it will seem like it has been a waste of time,,,,,which is exactly what it is,,,

 

[deslicher]

tough economic times lead to tough mental decisions,,,,,,
a year from now when you look back at all this bs it will seem like it has been a waste of time,,,,,which is exactly what it is,,,

Not a waste of time, because I feel better about my non-pooning decisions.....so therefore this thread is saving people money.

Thanks for this thread and I luv Lil' Miss Mischa.