Trump for President. Who's hopping on the bandwagon? Who's digging a bunker?

[sybian]

https://fusion.net/milk-lobby-says-immigration-raids-on-dairy-farms-could-1794424350

If the immigration crackdown continues its rollout, then no Canadian in their right mind would buy American milk anyway. We might actually be sell more milk to the Americans.

Thank you Wetnose.........which brings up another rant of mine.....
Everyone points the finger at the Farmer here in Canada , but the average Canadian doesn't realize the billions of dollars generated by the supply of food that employs the masses at a very fair wage ,in the processing part of creating the food you eat.
An average wage in milk, beef, chicken and egg processing here in Canada is approx. 20 dollars an hour, plus benefits in most cases......in the US it averages well below minimum wage, and no benefits ,including tax breaks, IF the job is even legal in the first place.
If we were to compete with the US our processing plants would have to decrease to a minimum wage ,and retract all benefits, to create a level playing field.
There would be quite literally millions of people working for more than half what they earn now......and that doesn't include the equipment, maintenance, inspection, trucking, waste management, and before production infrastructure .....these suppliers would represent billions.
Half of the BC population is concerned about " Fair Trade" when they buy a product from a foreign third world country, and 1750 farms shut down in the US last year.........the US wants the Canadians to adopt their policies so we can compete on their level, a level that is subsidized, and failing badly......what about fair trade for our own food production right at home?
We already have that ....and it's working very well......Maybe the US needs to look at our supply management in a very different light,....... instead of attacking it.

 

[JimDandy]

Now that freakin' windbag with a dead cat on his head ,is attacking the Canadian dairy industry.....
The US has been dumping their overproduced inferior milk into Canada for years, and building up their infrastructure to over produce even more milk to export into our country.....Milk they can't and don't want to use.
They couldn't meet the standards of screened milk solids of our country, so our government on the provincial level has put tariffs on their product .....screened milk solids for further processing.
Our supply management system is about to be attacked by the US government, or they will have so much product,.....that they already turn 15% into fertilizer just to get rid of it........they will have to dump it.
My point is, when do we let our trade partners tell us what we can produce, consume, and let across our borders?
If a country over produces a product, why should another first world country allow them to dump their inferior overproduction.....that IS subsidized.......into their food chain?
If we allow the US to dump milk solids inside of Canada, our inspection standards will have to be revised.
Incidentally ......we have the highest food safety standards in the world.
I cannot believe that the average consumer in Canada would want to ingest milk that's otherwise destined to be turned into fertilizer.

I know a lot about the Canadian dairy industry and I could not agree more !!! We need a more knowledgeable people speaking up about the dairy industry and defending supply management.

JD

 

[JimDandy]

Thank you Wetnose.........which brings up another rant of mine.....
Everyone points the finger at the Farmer here in Canada , but the average Canadian doesn't realize the billions of dollars generated by the supply of food that employs the masses at a very fair wage ,in the processing part of creating the food you eat.
An average wage in milk, beef, chicken and egg processing here in Canada is approx. 20 dollars an hour, plus benefits in most cases......in the US it averages well below minimum wage, and no benefits ,including tax breaks, IF the job is even legal in the first place.
If we were to compete with the US our processing plants would have to decrease to a minimum wage ,and retract all benefits, to create a level playing field.
There would be quite literally millions of people working for more than half what they earn now......and that doesn't include the equipment, maintenance, inspection, trucking, waste management, and before production infrastructure .....these suppliers would represent billions.
Half of the BC population is concerned about " Fair Trade" when they buy a product from a foreign third world country, and 1750 farms shut down in the US last year.........the US wants the Canadians to adopt their policies so we can compete on their level, a level that is subsidized, and failing badly......what about fair trade for our own food production right at home?
We already have that ....and it's working very well......Maybe the US needs to look at our supply management in a very different light,....... instead of attacking it.

Again, I could not agree more. That windbag Trump could take a lesson from our Prime Ministers intelligent and measured response:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bloomberg-dairy-trump-1.4077625 (watch the video imbedded in the story).

JD

 

[zigzag6984]

RE Chemical weapons in Syria: Why would Assad use sarin in a war he’s winning? Assad gains nothing from a chemical weapon attack. It would be incredibly stupid for him to do that. Furthermore, the gas used in 2013 was proven to be used by the rebels.

And lets not forget the fact corporate media cited Shajul Islam, a doctor in the al-Qaeda-controlled Idlib for the news. Moreover, CNN have repeatedly cited Bilal Abdul Kareem, a propagandist for extremist jihadists militias in Syria who has embedded himself with al-Qaeda's Syrian franchise, as a supposed independent observer of the war.

I mean, if you can't trust freaking al Qaeda, who can you trust, right?

Another thing worth noting: US released a 4 page statement that was incredibly low on detail and high on combating Russian fake news and still no thorough investigation. They don't care. The media doesn't care. It's why they aren't condemning Trump for his bombings, which helped Daesh. Not why they are barely mentioning the Rebel terrorist attack that killed 68 children over the weekend.

 

[JimDandy]

This article is very interesting:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dairy-farmers-wisconsin-trump-1.4081391

Two items in the article are worth noting:

1) Wisconsin HAS MORE MILK COWS THAN ALL OF CANADA COMBINED !!!

2) In the article they interview a family operating a dairy farm in Wisconsin and the family says they do not blame Canada. They blame over production in Wisconsin and even suggest that maybe Wisconsin should look at a supply management like the one we have Canada.

JD

 

[sybian]

There is a farm in the Midwest that raises broiler chickens owned by Tyson foods, it raises its own grains, hatching eggs and broiler chickens as an end product.
It also has its own killing or processing plant, trucking company, and freezer units that expand into the acres.
That one farm can raise all of the chicken to supply all of the Canadian population year round....and Tyson Foods wants Canada as a market......
This would put tens of thousands of farm families out of business, eliminate hundreds of thousands of processing jobs, in slaughter, feed ,equipment, further processing, after processing like dog food, and trucking.
The aftermath would be in the be in the tens of billions........but hey, everyone wants cheaper American Frankenchicken....right?

 

[westwoody]

As sybian says, the family farm is disappearing and being replaced by multi tiered agribusiness.

That is great if you want cheap crap food. If you want decent food it is a disaster.

A difference apparently lost on trolls.

 

[westwoody]

You should see the hog barns here in Manitoba. Just like the chicken factories but with pigs.
Really disgusting conditions for both the hogs and the workers.
Most of the workers are from overseas on visas. Anyone else would vomit or faint or both.
They destroy the environment for sure. The stench is horrible for miles around, and the sewage and filth ruins the water table.

I get most of my produce (beef, chicken, veggies) from a Hutterite colony.
The free range chicken is so different it is shocking. It is even a different colour.

 

[overdone]

As sybian says, the family farm is disappearing and being replaced by multi tiered agribusiness.

That is great if you want cheap crap food. If you want decent food it is a disaster.

A difference apparently lost on trolls.

and if you look at the facts, the family dairy farms have disapeared in Canada as well, even under the "Quota" system

we've gone from 100,000+ dairy farms to around 11, 000, most of which are in Ont and Que

you really believe that a dairy farmer, who according to the stats, grosses around a 104,000/avg deserves to be paid that?

and that's after expenses

the people who set the prices are industry insiders/participants

it costs 25,000 G's to buy the rights to a dairy cow

just like the chicken farms, even if someone wanted to get into the business, it's next to impossible due to the moronic system

it pretty much discourages the "family farm" concept

so quit deluding yourself, we have the same system as the US, just on a smaller scale, with a different type of subsidy system, which they have if you really look into it

 

[MissingOne]

... you really believe that a dairy farmer, who according to the stats, grosses around a 104,000/avg deserves to be paid that? ...

I don't know what point you are making with this. Are you suggesting that this person makes too much money, or too little?

If you mean around $104,000 per year, that's a pretty low income for a person running a business with, probably, millions invested in equipment, land, livestock, and licenses. And I don't mean mega-agri-business. Even a moderate-sized dairy operation with, say, 100 cows, will have $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 tied up in licenses alone. If such a person is only grossing 100 grand a year, then the business makes no sense.

 

[JimDandy]

I don't know what point you are making with this. Are you suggesting that this person makes too much money, or too little?

If you mean around $104,000 per year, that's a pretty low income for a person running a business with, probably, millions invested in equipment, land, livestock, and licenses. And I don't mean mega-agri-business. Even a moderate-sized dairy operation with, say, 100 cows, will have $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 tied up in licenses alone. If such a person is only grossing 100 grand a year, then the business makes no sense.

And don't forget that the cows have to be milked twice a day, approximately 12 hours apart. That means that the average farmer works 14+ hours a day * 7 days a week. 104K is pretty damn little for those kind of hours! In fact it works out to about $20 an hour.

JD

 

[sybian]

Ok let me explain something.......in Canada we have supply management in every sort of agriculture with the exception of cattle and hogs.
Supply management is to AVOID subsidies from outside Government ,either provincial or federal.
The farmer buys a licsence to raise the living product.......that licence ensures " cost of production"
It is a minimum market price that pays for the immature animal and the cost of feed to raise it to a minimum standard of weight to market....it also falls under the humane treatment to animal act, that is regulated on a provincial level, so there is some government regulation in some aspects.
There is also some government farm inspections ,to ensure certain humane, minimum safety, cleanliness , and food safety standards.....there is another inspection done at the processing level....I'm talking only farms right now.
It is designed and regulated to avoid subsidies from an outside source of funding so that the farmer is guaranteed a minimum price to protect his investment.
Having said that.....the Quota or licsence amounts have got out of hand....with the outside threat from the US ,the price for most Quotas have been dropping,and rightly so, as they are artificially inflated, due to their own protectionist practices.

So to repeat myself to make it very clear.........the supply management system.....is NOT a subsidy.....unless of course your Mr. Trump, and have your own self obsorbed agenda.
My industry is non regulated, and is up and down more than is justified....usually affected by political , and economic circumstances, and also by the amount of grass available to me, and/ or the amount of extra money in my pocket.

 

[sybian]

and if you look at the facts, the family dairy farms have disapeared in Canada as well, even under the "Quota" system

we've gone from 100,000+ dairy farms to around 11, 000, most of which are in Ont and Que

you really believe that a dairy farmer, who according to the stats, grosses around a 104,000/avg deserves to be paid that?

and that's after expenses

the people who set the prices are industry insiders/participants

it costs 25,000 G's to buy the rights to a dairy cow

just like the chicken farms, even if someone wanted to get into the business, it's next to impossible due to the moronic system

it pretty much discourages the "family farm" concept

so quit deluding yourself, we have the same system as the US, just on a smaller scale, with a different type of subsidy system, which they have if you really look into it

Your right that the supply management system is regulated by the industries elected representatives, but they are regulated by the Government on a full time provincial staff member.
Having said that there are programs that a family can enter to receive free Quota to start a family farm as in the case of BC when our population increases, the demand for food increases, a lottery is held to give an individual free Quota to supply the increased market.
Basically if your willing to work for it, and you have some land that is suitable, you can start a family farm......the licsence has no value for ten years but is susceptible to increases, so in effect a person with minimal investment can start a family farm.....if they are willing to work for it.
our farms here are on a smaller scale than the US, as it should be due to our smaller population, and because of that, and the supply management system, we only raise enough to supply that smaller population.
Our exports are kept to a minimum, except for interprovincial trading, within the country.
Ontario constantly over produces food products and exports them to BC......taking away the market from BC farmers, but that is a trade, and Quota issue within our own borders.

 

[sybian]

And don't forget that the cows have to be milked twice a day, approximately 12 hours apart. That means that the average farmer works 14+ hours a day * 7 days a week. 104K is pretty damn little for those kind of hours! In fact it works out to about $20 an hour.

JD

I wish I made 20 dollars an hour.......with my hours either making hay, fixing shit, accounting, building, calving, feeding, and whatever hat I'm wearing that day......and then if you consider the predator loss.......20 an hour would be like winning the lottery.
But hey......I'm my own boss, but he sure can be an asshole some days.

 

[zigzag6984]

So, does the quota system have anything to do with the quality of the chicken/no frankenchickens like in the States? From what I understand, it just a limit on production. This thread seems to state otherwise, but it's the only place that has mentioned quality of poultry.

Trump is going to place a 20% tariff on Canadian lumber tomorrow. Sorry for those of you in the Lumber industry who are going to lose your job in 2 months.

 

[KYG]

Trump is going to build a wall between USA and Mexico and Canada will pay for it!

 

[MissingOne]

... There is NO reason Vancouver and Victoria could not become more of a Silicon Valley north.

Is that really what we want? Extreme economic disparity, a few winners take all and screw the losers? Silicon Valley has already fallen several years behind the Pearl River Delta and may well continue to lose ground. Are we ready for that intense, divisive competition and is it even something we want to participate in?

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be developing technology here, but if we just try to do what Silicon Valley has done and China is doing, we'll be committing ourselves to an extreme two-tier society. Great for the winners, few though they may be.

 

[MissingOne]

You're looking at it wrong. There is nothing wrong with building a tech cluster in the Lower Mainland. And it does not necessarily equate to higher prices. I'm from the "real" Silicon Valley North which is Waterloo, Ontario. It's a place with thousands of tech companies in a city the size of Surrey. Housing prices are still mostly realistic as are rents.

I don't believe the technology industry is what caused the price increase in real estate in the Lower Mainland. The tech industry is mostly new to the region. The outrageous real estate prices are due to the influx of capital from China. It's now happening in Toronto. Some dude programming in Python for Hootsuite isn't the cause of a 500K condo in the West End.

San Fran is an entirely different story. It's the HEADquarters to most of the worlds technology companies. Vancouver will never support an Amazon or a Microsoft. It will always be a secondary tech city (as will all Canadian tech cities). But no reason why we can't bring jobs here. I get paid, I'm going to spend money & that's going to create work for other people. Even if it's some cook job at Meet on Main, does it matter? It's still someone with a meaningful job.

I have no issue with the sort of tech industry you describe. I just think that imagining Vancouver as a Silicon Valley North is unrealistic and probably undesirable. As for the guy programming in Python for Hootsuite, I'd say to him, make money while your skills are in demand, but be thinking about your next career too.

 

[badbadboy]

You're looking at it wrong. There is nothing wrong with building a tech cluster in the Lower Mainland. And it does not necessarily equate to higher prices. I'm from the "real" Silicon Valley North which is Waterloo, Ontario. It's a place with thousands of tech companies in a city the size of Surrey. Housing prices are still mostly realistic as are rents.

I don't believe the technology industry is what caused the price increase in real estate in the Lower Mainland. The tech industry is mostly new to the region. The outrageous real estate prices are due to the influx of capital from China. It's now happening in Toronto. Some dude programming in Python for Hootsuite isn't the cause of a 500K condo in the West End.

San Fran is an entirely different story. It's the HEADquarters to most of the worlds technology companies. Vancouver will never support an Amazon or a Microsoft. It will always be a secondary tech city (as will all Canadian tech cities). But no reason why we can't bring jobs here. I get paid, I'm going to spend money & that's going to create work for other people. Even if it's some cook job at Meet on Main, does it matter? It's still someone with a meaningful job.

Seems your opinion on Silicon Valley north is omitting Ottawa / Kanata. Nearly all major telecom and defence contractors are located near Ottawa.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/mobile/...ms-twice-as-many-firms-as-waterloo-1.2386291#

Waterloo has RIM but other than that, mostly are startup SW companies.

 

[sybian]

So, does the quota system have anything to do with the quality of the chicken/no frankenchickens like in the States? From what I understand, it just a limit on production. This thread seems to state otherwise, but it's the only place that has mentioned quality of poultry.

Trump is going to place a 20% tariff on Canadian lumber tomorrow. Sorry for those of you in the Lumber industry who are going to lose your job in 2 months.

If you will allow me to address your question Of quality of poultry tomorrow I'd appreciate that.
There is a big difference......it will be a very long drawn out post, and I've had a hellish day raising someone else's food, for enough money to starve myself.