Trans Mounta in Pipeline Project Maybe Dead
- Thread starter thodisipagal
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Yeah well the shitty thing is when the eventual court decision comes down(and no doubt it will favour the pipeline that is in the NATIONAL INTEREST) and then it will be appealed thusly dragging it out in the courts.All of this legal action is of course paid for by a FOREIGN USA based special interest group that is FUNDED by USA oil interests that does not want to see the Oilsands developed because they dont OWN them.
There have been numerous court decisions with regards to the pipeline expansion.....and that is what it is.....an expansion of an already existing pipeline.The objection to it is pure NIMBY combined with people who are PAID to protest against it.
Oh but Vancouver and it's citizens care so much for the precious "environment".....from shitting up Burnaby Mountain for protesting about the pipeline....and on a different tangent the recent FOUR TWENTY gathering.....which saw 20,000+ people at a "precious beech" and the result was the grass got wiped out and the public area that should be able to be enjoyed by the "public" wont get to be enjoyed by the "public" as it will take 3 months to fix.
Hypocracy seems to be a very common ailment with regards to the Left Coast......treat your OWN environment like SHIT and trash it when it suits your mindset and it is perfectly OK.....and then plug your ears and SCREAM like a fucking INFANT when something that you get the benefit from that is established and NEEDS to be expanded.
All of these pipelines should have been thought up and proposed and BUILT 20 years ago.....WELL before the bullshit that is "Climate Change" and also before that foreign special interest groups have taken hold of the energy development in Canada as well as the development of infrastructure to get Canada's energy products to market.
SR
lol, yes, Alberta can, all they have to do is the same BC is proposing, refuse to give a permit, limit the amount that crosses their province
cause that according to you it is legal, lol
You may be right; the court might decide in favor of the pipeline. I just don't know nor am I certain about that; I lack the insight you apparently have.
There may be special interest foreign interference working to scuttle the project -- but that rhetoric and argument, I think, would have as little relevance in court as the project opponent arguing that Kinder Morgan is Texas company. Neither advances the respective argument to convince the court. That discussion is suitable for dinner table conversation or buddy chat over beer and chicken wings at a pub.
I'll agree with you on one thing -- BC NDP's whole focus in the reference question over constitutional jurisdiction filed in BC Court of Appeals can be summarized into one acronym, NIMBY. That implies local, backyard impacts of the project. In the very argument about NIMBY you put forward to berate the BC government, I actually see that as their strength because s. 92 confirs constitutional power to the province to make laws related to "all matters local", in addition to matters related to impacts on the environment, human health, local jobs. BC is not challenging constitutional power of the federal government to approve the project (which BC would not win); their court reference is about their own constitutional authority to regulate activities that potentially impact their local, backyard NIMBY issues (e.g., the environment, health, jobs, etc). That challenge might pass the constitutional test in the Court of Appeals.
The arguments about BC's raw sewage, shit and trash, BC beaches, BC's hypocrisy are also inadmissible in court. They are simply "whataboutery".
I understand your anger. I have earned my income from O&G industry. But at this time anger is not going to push the project forward.
This is a constitutional issue. The dispute can only be resolved in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
If it is to be resolved outside of the court, BC, Alberta and the Federal government have to work together and the parties have to take BC's concern seriously. "This pipeline will be built" kind of platitude will not help.
I take it, you haven't read about the beer ruling, much less actually reading the ruling.
There have been multiple court cases thus far and every court decision went in favor of the pipeline.Of course ALL of those court decisions were appealed and they lost as well.The new court action will most likely get the same result and then it will get appealed.It is a stalling tactic.Tie the matter up in the courts and stall it so that it wont get built due to being kicked down the road.It is an abuse of process that clogs up the court system.
The people that are hardcore against the pipeline represent a small fraction of the populace and THEY are the ones screaming the loudest.It is easy to show up at a protest and get "arrested" on the spot and then released 20 minutes later with a "promise to appear" notice in your hand when you are some scab who is bilking welfare whilst also taking money from special interest groups on the side.
The people that support the pipeline and WANT it to be built dont have time to go to protests in favor of it because they have JOBS and OBLIGATIONS.As for First Nations all of them that the EXISTING pipeline runs through their reserves/territory/traditional lands etc they are in FAVOR of it and stand to benefit directly from it to the tune of 400 MILLION.The First Nations that are AGAINST the pipeline expansion are the ones that get no benefit(as in they get no MONEY) and that is why they are opposed to it.....throw in some money though and they would STFU.
The hardcore enviro nutjobs are a huge part of the base of both the NDP as well as the Greens politically and that is why Horgan is pandering to them.He wants to woo that vote away from the Greens should a snap election happen.
As for how safe both the pipeline and the increased tanker traffic is with regards to oilspills etc as well as the impact on those precious killer whales.How many tankers have run aground in or near Vancouver or even out to sea?How many killer whales have washed up on the beeches?How many massive leaks on the existing pipeline have happened?
These are the issues that are the bogeyman that are being raised by the hypocrite "save the earth" crowd and yet they have no signifigant instances of them.
Politicallly Trudeau needs to grow a spine and take his "feminest" balls from his wife's purse and cut ALL transfer payments to BC and Notley should put up or shut up with regards to "turning off the taps" so as to put the boot onto Horgans throat to get the pipeline built as it is in the NATIONAL INTEREST.Same as the Energy East pipeline was.Pretty fucking stupid that eastern Canada is OK with importing unethical oil from Saudi Arabia which has a shitty human rights record for women but they object to a pipeline From Alberta to ship oil within Canada.
As I have said previously in other threads this is due to foreign influence via special interest groups like the Tides Foundation that feed money to Canadian special interest groups like Green Peace/The Dogwood Initiative/Leadnow etc.
It should be illegal for any Canadian enviro group to take funding from ANY foreign special interest group and ANY individual Canadian that takes money to act against the NATIONAL INTEREST with regards to ANY industry be it energy/agriculture/manufacturing/mining should be HUNG for SEDITION.
SR
I think its a toss up. Based on my reading of s. 91 and some legal analyses of s. 91 by lawyers and academics, I think the court will side with BC. But, hey, I could be wrong. Judges are known to play poker.
Ha, that saves the industry. The sex work industry, not the oil industry.
___________________:hopelessness:
The latest BC Court of Appeals verdict that went against BC government was not about constitutional jurisdiction of the federal parliament vs. provincial legislature.
BC government, with support from Burnaby, challenged in the court NEB ru ling to allow Kinder Morgan to bypass Burnaby's bylaw during pipeline pre-construction work. The court dismissed the challenge.
There is a reason why the court dismissed the case. Ss. 91 and 92 of the Constitution Act only lays out the jurisdictions of the federal parliament and provincial legislatures. There is nothing about city's authority to make bylaws in there. So, the Court had no choice but to reject the challenge because it didn't have a basis to make a constitutional ruling on.
This time the BC's Court of Appeals reference question submitted by BC is about their own constitutional power, not the city's. I doubt BC's reference case will be dismissed this time.
* why both sides are losing *
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This morning, CBC Radio's Sunday Edition did an interesting 30 minute interview with the author of
The Patch : the people, pipelines, and politics of the oil sands.
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This morning, CBC Radio's Sunday Edition did an interesting 30 minute interview with the author of
The Patch : the people, pipelines, and politics of the oil sands.
See short summary & listen to podcast. A primer on the Kinder Morgan pipeline.
Read review of book.
Read review of book.
The Times Colonist in Victoria, Saturday and Sunday, carried stories on this issue.
David Black wants to build a refinery on the coast because it would be relatively easy to ship in the components from Asia. He wants the tar/bitumen to be converted from dilbit to hard, dry pellets in Alberta before it is shipped by train to his refinery on the coast. This means no risk of a dilbit or oil spill in BC. Seems to me this could also be done with the tar meant for export. You might even be able to run the tar pellets through a pipeline with water. Maybe Alberta could use the water in the massive (visible from space) poisonous tailings ponds that adjoin the Athabasca River, assuming that water wouldn't be as poisonous as the diluent in dilbit.
The point is, BC might not have the authority to stop Alberta from shipping tar through BC but it might have the authority to dictate, for environmental and safety reasons, how that tar is shipped. If you don't want to hear what the courts have to say then you just have a lawless fear of the possible answer.
David Black wants to build a refinery on the coast because it would be relatively easy to ship in the components from Asia. He wants the tar/bitumen to be converted from dilbit to hard, dry pellets in Alberta before it is shipped by train to his refinery on the coast. This means no risk of a dilbit or oil spill in BC. Seems to me this could also be done with the tar meant for export. You might even be able to run the tar pellets through a pipeline with water. Maybe Alberta could use the water in the massive (visible from space) poisonous tailings ponds that adjoin the Athabasca River, assuming that water wouldn't be as poisonous as the diluent in dilbit.
The point is, BC might not have the authority to stop Alberta from shipping tar through BC but it might have the authority to dictate, for environmental and safety reasons, how that tar is shipped. If you don't want to hear what the courts have to say then you just have a lawless fear of the possible answer.
you're deluding yourself into thinking the opposition is rational, it isn't
they think they don't need any oil, they're being manipulated with money from the US anti oil/pipeline, while Obama laid enough pipe to go around the world
they like low gas prices in their own country, they get 99% of our oil exports, cheap
reality/facts don't matter, just look at Germany, with the delusions of "clean energy" there
the subsidies are ending there, guess what's happening, people aren't buying into it anymore, the few jobs it created are disappearing
solar/wind, isn't able to compete without being subsidized, look at Ont, now Alberta, both are hiding the real cost by paying part of the cost of electricity
same with electric cars, no one wants them, buys them, the only few who do, are fanatics, or do cause of the free money to subsidize them
when you offer free money, specially the gov't, the weasels come out of the woodwork
just look at what Warren Buffet says about the subsidies, basically he said clean energy doesn't make sense economically unless you subsidize it
look at the plant that used to make wind turbines in Ont, when the subsidies ran out, they folded like a cheap tent
solar is comparable, when it takes 15 yrs to just recoup the cost? lol
all we needed to do in Canada was switch from the remaining coal to natural gas, for now, everywhere, across the country, meaning build pipes, infrastructure and our emissions would have improved dramatically
but our politicians are too stupid to just start there
there is a reason why the refinery can't get traction, you can't the zealots to agree to anything less than zero
reality doesn't exist in their world
Subsidy? Waiver?
Oh, the irony.
Exclusive: U.S. EPA grants biofuels waiver to billionaire Icahn's oil refinery
https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN1I10YB-OCABS
A whole lot of untruthfulness in your post seems to indicate you may be the delusional one.
Living in East Vancouver, most, if not all, of the people I know are not in favour of the pipeline expansion - not sure where this whole 'foreign influence' theory is coming from, but it sounds like a bizarre Albertan conspiracy theory. Accept it, local people in Vancouver just don't want it! Saying people aren't rational or are fanatics because they want to protect their coast from potential environmental catastrophe? Really, Albertans telling British Columbians that there is no threat are delusional.
Electric cars? Hybrids? The few people I know who own them, love them. I was recently talking to a friend who bought a Volt just over a year ago, they haven't even gone through two tanks of gasoline since the car was new. What is not to love about that?
Maybe stick to real arguments instead of resorting to labels.
Civil Disobedience: Although civil disobedience is considered to be an expression of contempt for law, Martin Luther King Jr. regarded civil disobedience to be a display and practice of reverence for law; for as "Any man who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail in order to arouse the conscience of the community on the injustice of the law is at that moment expressing the very highest respect for law."
To put a more accurate angle on it.....it is a fucking photo op as well as pandering to voters.
The hypocracy of people like Elizabeth May makes me want to puke.She attended the Paris Climate Accord as the "Green Party" member on the public dime.In so doing she stayed at a luxury hotel and stuffed her face and no doubt guzzled as much French wine as she could get her hands on and all at the expense of the tax payer.She felt so bad about taking the flight on the airplane that she bought "carbon offsets" to green wash her guilt.
SR
Sustainable Energy?
Some quick bits of info/recollections to counter some bizarre earlier comments.
Two large (Gulf Islands size) ferries running on battery have been built in one of the Scandinavian countries and have been so successful that they have orders for a dozen more.
Several times in the last year or two some European countries have produced near all their power from sustainable sources for several days. They shut down the gas plants and everything came from wind, solar and a bit of nuclear (not sustainable) that can't be shut down short term.
People who have a Chevy Volt are reminded once a year that they have to use the gasoline in the tank before it goes stale.
Production of electric vehicles continues to increase. In some countries there are more electric than gas vehicles sold.
I count 6 battery vehicles on my block. I may be missing some.
Vancouver is buying two battery buses for use on Marine Drive, 1 million each. Charging stations at each end of the run will cost another million each. Chances are , eventually all city buses will run on either battery or trolley. We are a late adopter.
The Solo single seat car is priced at $20,000, designed and prototyped in New West and supposedly going into production in China. A single seat commuter with a 100km+ range and 120 kmph speed. Test drives available in Vancouver.
They are just quick recollections. If you want to do some research feel free to challenge me on any of this. Please say where you found your information.
Some quick bits of info/recollections to counter some bizarre earlier comments.
Two large (Gulf Islands size) ferries running on battery have been built in one of the Scandinavian countries and have been so successful that they have orders for a dozen more.
Several times in the last year or two some European countries have produced near all their power from sustainable sources for several days. They shut down the gas plants and everything came from wind, solar and a bit of nuclear (not sustainable) that can't be shut down short term.
People who have a Chevy Volt are reminded once a year that they have to use the gasoline in the tank before it goes stale.
Production of electric vehicles continues to increase. In some countries there are more electric than gas vehicles sold.
I count 6 battery vehicles on my block. I may be missing some.
Vancouver is buying two battery buses for use on Marine Drive, 1 million each. Charging stations at each end of the run will cost another million each. Chances are , eventually all city buses will run on either battery or trolley. We are a late adopter.
The Solo single seat car is priced at $20,000, designed and prototyped in New West and supposedly going into production in China. A single seat commuter with a 100km+ range and 120 kmph speed. Test drives available in Vancouver.
They are just quick recollections. If you want to do some research feel free to challenge me on any of this. Please say where you found your information.
That is true and I dont know about other countries but Norway is one. The reason being that because of government incentives and rebates etc. It's effectively almost free.
Where does the money come from?
Oil. lol
Solar and wind power is not even close to being cost effective without subsidies and preferential back room deals
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