The tent removal on Hastings

[luvsdaty]

I don't remember Yaletown as being a not so good area. The skids was always the skids. But not like this. Some of the tent residents seem surprisingly articulate and sober when interviewed. As in they have all their marbles. I don't know what the problem is entirely, but acceptance of the situation seems to be be a lot of the problem.

My dad said Hastings use to be a nice part of the city before my time. But even when I was a kid back in the 60s/70s , pigeon square was where the winos hung out and they wouldn't bug you.

 

[peteinbc]

I think need to re consider the thought that places like Riverview and similar are bad. Some of the homeless will most likely do best in such an environment. Was a noble idea in the 90's that they are better of on their home, that has failed.

Oh, and lets not forget the industry receiving funding from all levels of government for the purpose of supporting them - how do you think all these spoke people get paid? And then the people that prey on these guys selling drugs. Years ago I read that Victoria alone is spending $1 million per day on the DTES. Hate to think what it is today. Plus the over 300K monthly welfare payments being issued.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

I moved to Vancouver in '79, didn't know the city or its history. East Hastings was rough but so was Lynn Valley and Riley Park. Hey old timers, remember the Drake, the Marr? I could park my car down there and have no worries at all.

Come Expo 86 and Vanderslam selling us out to hat wearing real estate agents and it all changed. And we are now reaping what we sowed to make Vancouver this international cosmopolitan place whereas before it was just a nice small city by the sea.

And not to be crass or inconsiderate or god help me to be NOT WOKE ... but when the fuck did it become acceptable to have mobs of people taking over blocks of any city?

 

[Equity Market investor]

And adding to your comment.....2010 Olympics brought Vancouver to new levels.Now, talk of interest the 2030 Olympics are on the table again??

Come Expo 86 and Vanderslam selling us out to hat wearing real estate agents and it all changed. And we are now reaping what we sowed to make Vancouver this international cosmopolitan place whereas before it was just a nice small city by the sea.

 

[westwoody]

My dad said Hastings use to be a nice part of the city before my time. But even when I was a kid back in the 60s/70s , pigeon square was where the winos hung out and they wouldn't bug you.

There was a really upscale classical record store right by there, Sekora’s? Something like that. Big difference between winos and meth heads though! The winos just wanted to be left alone and weren’t aggressive or obnoxious.
As kids we could get off the bus at Main and Hastings and walk down Hastings and up Granville, no problem.

Even in the early 70s though, there were parts of Stanley Park that were dangerous because of homeless camps of junkies.

 

[westwoody]

Come Expo 86 and Vanderslam selling us out to hat wearing real estate agents and it all changed

When they shut down all those flophouse hotels was the start of really large scale homelessness. The occupants had nowhere to go and the Expo guys removed thousands of rooms.

The big problem here is people projecting their own way of thinking onto these homeless/ mentally ill people.
Many of these homeless people don’t think the way you guys do.
What seems reasonable to you won’t work for them.

 

[angry anderson]

Oh definitely not.

Blood is running in the streets, it's time to buy property.

Investors and developers will in fact bank on this somehow on their end.



Harm Reduction ALONE is unpopular because all it does is ignore the solutions to the issue, while enabling drug culture... IMO, HR alone is a grift.

The "Four Pillars Approach" into solving these social issues have been cited many times in such discussions. Those pillars are "Prevention", "Harm Reduction", "Recovery", and "Enforcement"...

As the REAL problem is that it's the NDP (backed by Trudeau's Liberals) to focus solely on "Harm Reduction", discounting the value of "Prevention", "Recovery", and "Enforcement". HR plans is to stick all the addicts into a rut, and fill it with all the free needles, so-called 'safe supply', and Naloxone, "just to stop them from dying", but leaves no room for accountability or any contingencies if their programs fail. Otherwise, they start crying "stigma", so people will back off and the problems continue on.

"Lots of people go nuts about wasting their tax dollars on anything benefitting anyone but themselves."

YEAH, ..that's how it works... What makes your think people are obligated to believe otherwise? If my tax dollars are going into these half-baked Harm Reduction practices, and the death toll keeps rising either by overdoses or crime; showing zero progress from these social programs that seem to keep taking those tax dollars and producing zero results... You bet people are going to get mad, when they are forced to pay 50% of their earnings just so they can't walk down the street without getting randomly attacked..... what would you expect otherwise? Obligated Kindness?... In human history, you think that ever worked for any Institutionalized Religion trying to gaslight the masses into submission for the "true powers" of this world? Perhaps so, if social issues were at a minimum, but these days, in Trudeau's Canada (and his WEF machinations)? Post-COVID? It doesn't hold the weight it used to. Survival instincts rev up and a person has to do what they have to do. Just like those living on DTES' streets, just like anyone who can still work enough to keep their roof over their heads and afford such latitude that becomes a buffer against living in abject poverty. We're all trying to survive, and when push comes to shove "they who have the most toys win" (in this case, seeing our tax dollars at work sweeping DTES clean)

There is also a component to these equations that seem to get missed a lot by advocate groups is that those people are in fact, STONE COLD LOSERS. Not because they lost at life, I mean we've all taken that trip down the dark side of life one time or another, and most of us do rise above and become stronger and more self-reliant. But there are those who if you were to take that red-carpet cure-all treatment and roll it right up to their toes and even nudge them to put that first foot on such carpet. They would jump right off and go back to their antics. Those people no matter how much money is spent, are total write-offs. Those describe perfectly the type of people that occupy DTES. That's why I don't feel too bad about this sweep and clear, because options are available if getting housing was that important to them, but they chose to be there instead. They only fall back on the "wah wah wah gimmie housing" when everyone else become too fed up with their bullshit, and claim it's a systematic failure of our government, instead of taking personal responsibility to realize what a piece of shit these people really are... but I digress.

HR doesn't work alone. You need the other three to work in unison for results to improve. Look at Portland and San Francisco. Those cities are DEAD for exercising the same HR practices as Vancouver does, and we only just begun this 3 year long decriminalization plan.

In a nutshell.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

I think need to re consider the thought that places like Riverview and similar are bad. Some of the homeless will most likely do best in such an environment. Was a noble idea in the 90's that they are better of on their home, that has failed.

Oh, and lets not forget the industry receiving funding from all levels of government for the purpose of supporting them - how do you think all these spoke people get paid? And then the people that prey on these guys selling drugs. Years ago I read that Victoria alone is spending $1 million per day on the DTES. Hate to think what it is today. Plus the over 300K monthly welfare payments being issued.

It’s a huge number these days
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/...spent-on-social-services-in-vancouver-6083196

 

[Drjohn]

I know we had a thread a while ago. Probably got shut down, but I heard two sane comments by street people on the street. One old guy who looked poor said " couldn't they find somewhere better to camp than right here?" Another guy who looked like a poor working guy said " How are they allowed to go completely nuts here? " or words to that effect.
My sister, who worked for the Welfare Department when it was called that, said a lot of them got evicted from SRO's because they trashed the place they lived in and were a hazard to everybody else.
The logic that their tent cities deserve some modicum of respect is contradicted by the fact that they turn their squats into a garbage tip.

To say that the attempts to alleviate poverty and homelessness have been misguided is a massive understatement.

There are a lot of good intentions but very little common sense. You can't just let people do whatever they want. People must be held accountable for their actions..

Too many do gooders and higher purpose people have been left in charge for too long.

Time for a new approach.

 

[Big_Guy_Rye]

Time for a new approach.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

View attachment 62635

That was a good movie, part of the problem is no matter how many they provide housing for makes no difference as they will be replaced by the influx from the rest of Canada. This place is like a bird feeder for them especially in the winter months, it’s like Hawaii compared to the rest of the country.
They should be sent back home and a place provided for them there.

 

[angry anderson]

That was a good movie, part of the problem is no matter how many they provide housing for makes no difference as they will be replaced by the influx from the rest of Canada. This place is like a bird feeder for them especially in the winter months, it’s like Hawaii compared to the rest of the country.
They should be sent back home and a place provided for them there.

I knew someone who worked for the welfare department back more than 20 years ago. New "clients were arriving by bus from Alberta. The Alberta welfare system was handing them a bus ticket and told them to move to Vancouver. Nothing for you here in Alberta.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

I knew someone who worked for the welfare department back more than 20 years ago. New "clients were arriving by bus from Alberta. The Alberta welfare system was handing them a bus ticket and told them to move to Vancouver. Nothing for you here in Alberta.

I remember that also, they should be repatriated to their home cities, Vancouver is unfairly being taken advantage of.

 

[westwoody]

The Alberta welfare system was handing them a bus ticket and told them to move to Vancouver. Nothing for you here in Alberta.

Alberta was doing this at the same time as Rednose Ralph Klein was spouting his “eastern creeps and bums” bullshit.

 

[white Ninja]

So many mental health issues. Once they shut riverview down ,they just cut everyone loose and let them figure it out for themselves.

Exactly , terrible decision.

At first the city claimed they would save $10 million a yr to push the decision through . Currently they all come through St. Paul’s w no bc medical. They lot estimate the city spends approximately $20 million per yr having them come through emergency .

Downtown Vancouver is getting a bleaker reputation all the time as there are now rapidly increasing mental health and drug issues everywhere you look . Many People don’t want to come downtown anymore and any retail businesses left DT are definitely suffering as a result . It can’t be helping tourism thats for sure .

Gregger won on the promise to send homelessness 🙄. Of course that was not going to happen , that’s a fantasy. But it had increased by ten times the amount when he finished his time in office .

 

[angry anderson]

Exactly , terrible decision.

At first the city claimed they would save $10 million a yr to push the decision through . Currently they all come through St. Paul’s w no bc medical. They lot estimate the city spends approximately $20 million per yr having them come through emergency .

Downtown Vancouver is getting a bleaker reputation all the time as there are now rapidly increasing mental health and drug issues everywhere you look . Many People don’t want to come downtown anymore and any retail businesses left DT are definitely suffering as a result . It can’t be helping tourism thats for sure .

Gregger won on the promise to send homelessness 🙄. Of course that was not going to happen , that’s a fantasy. But it had increased by ten times the amount when he finished his time in office .

As with most US cities. Downtown is sort of a NO GO area now. Total rot has set in. Seems unrecoverable. It has been like that for more than a decade. I used to like to go to Woodwards or the Army and Navy when in that area. That seems like another lifetime. Just filth and dereliction now.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

All points taken, but add in the effects of the flood of fentanyl and its derivatives contributing to the overall issue.
Related deaths in BC have tripled since 2016.
What is not reported or catalogued statistically is the overall effect of how it contributes to the decline in mental health. Which of course then relates to the homeless, where they are, how they survive and so on. I have no solution and I get the feeling few do.
But I do see the problem as being apolitical as the decay we see is universal across the geography in North America. Urban centers are as noted becoming rotten.
I'm just thankful I got to live a fun and pretty carefree younger life without all this all around me.

 

[angry anderson]

All points taken, but add in the effects of the flood of fentanyl and its derivatives contributing to the overall issue.
Related deaths in BC have tripled since 2016.
What is not reported or catalogued statistically is the overall effect of how it contributes to the decline in mental health. Which of course then relates to the homeless, where they are, how they survive and so on. I have no solution and I get the feeling few do.
But I do see the problem as being apolitical as the decay we see is universal across the geography in North America. Urban centers are as noted becoming rotten.
I'm just thankful I got to live a fun and pretty carefree younger life without all this all around me.

So your point being fentanyl is the root cause?
The whole issue of the squatters on society is a classic "tail wagging the dog" situation. As you say, life was more fun and carefree back in, say, the 80's. The 90's was the beginning of the end. Just symptomatic of the evil world we live in nowadays. Nobody gives a fuck about each other. The money being made by the rich. The money being spent on wars. The environmental catastrophe we are heading for. Glad I am old really.

 

[westwoody]

Glad I am old really.

Yeah…nobody gives a shit about these people, nobody wants to be inconvenienced in any way whatsoever.
The real problem is the accumulation of wealth at the top and exponential increase in poverty at the bottom.
One day all these poor desperate people are going to rampage through Shaunessey or Point Grey and burn it down. Why not? They have nothing to lose. It’s happened elsewhere.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

So your point being fentanyl is the root cause?

No.
Not a root cause, a contributor and an exacerbation of the problem.
Thought I expounded on that.
Complex problem and no jurisdiction is stepping up to really fix the problem.