The annual GFE vs PSE debate

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Irresistible Isabelle

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Yes, yes the topic has been done to death but as it always happens I see a lot of wishful thinking on the part of perberts on the subject of BBBJs. I'm a sucker for clarity so lets set the menu matter straight.... again.

I've always been under the impression, which has been confirmed by many SPs & perberts alike, that this is how the menus break down:

Non-GFE:
Blowjob - covered
Sex - covered

GFE:
Kissing (LFK vs DFK = YMMV)
DATY (Digits = YMMV)
Blowjob covered is standard (BBBJs are strictly YMMV usually dependent upon comfort level established over multiple sessions.)
Sex - covered

PSE:
Kissing
DATY
BBBJ (CIM = YMMV)
Sex - covered
Greek - covered

The argument "But I've never had a GF who gave me a BJ with a condom on, therefore GFE should include BBBJs unconditionally" doesn't fly in large part because by that logic, statistically, most people end up having unprotected sex with their SO's once tests are done and she's on the pill, and this will never happen with SPs for obvious reasons. And by the same logic, if we are going for authentic GFE experiences, then at some point the SP can forgo shaving her legs for a day or two ;)

Previously there has been the suggestion that GFE be subdivided into "GFE" and "French GFE," the FGFE including BBBJs as the norm as they do in Montreal.

Thoughts?
 
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F

FortunateOne

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This seems very straightforward. I don't know that Greek would be automatically included in a PSE encounter, but might be an added option and might be something expected from a PSE provider?

I would also think that COT, COF would be an expected finishing touch, as most porns seem to finish off this way rather than "internally" lol.

But that's just fine tuning. Those who provide bbbjs but not greek or other PSE touches could still use GFE, but this way no one would be assuming bbbjs when the term GFE is used, and maybe the sp wouldn't be obliged to provide it when the necessary hygiene requirements just aren't there. :p
 
D

DQ Guy

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Indy Isabelle said:
And by the same logic, if we are going for authentic GFE experiences, then at some point the SP can forgo shaving her legs for a day or two ;)

Thats too damn funny:D
then again you know what they say about those french girls:eek: :D
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D

deberry

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Indy Isabelle said:
Yes, yes the topic has been done to death but as it always happens I see a lot of wishful thinking on the part of perberts on the subject of BBBJs. I'm a sucker for clarity so lets set the menu matter straight.... again.

I've always been under the impression, which has been confirmed by many SPs & perberts alike, that this is how the menus break down:

Non-GFE:
Blowjob - covered
Sex - covered

GFE:
Kissing (LFK vs DFK = YMMV)
DATY (Digits = YMMV)
Blowjob covered is standard (BBBJs are strictly YMMV usually dependent upon comfort level established over multiple sessions.)
Sex - covered

PSE:
Kissing
DATY
BBBJ (CIM = YMMV)
Sex - covered
Greek - covered

The argument "But I've never had a GF who gave me a BJ with a condom on" doesn't fly in large part because by that logic, statistically, most people end up having unprotected sex with their SO's once tests are done and she's on the pill, and this will never happen with SPs for obvious reasons. And by the same logic, if we are going for authentic GFE experiences, then at some point the SP can forgo shaving her legs for a day or two ;)

Previously there has been the suggestion that GFE be subdivided into "GFE" and "French GFE," the FGFE including BBBJs as the norm as they do in Montreal.

Thoughts?
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I think all GFE's should be BBBJ no questions asked. If it is not then it is not a GFE simple as that and we can better distinguish this and avoid it and give our hard earned $ to the SP's that are GFE's. There is nothing worse than a CBJ. May as well stay home. Plus it can't be that enjoyable for the SP having toxic latex in her mouth. There is too much propaganda out there about "safe sex".
 
L

littlejimbigher

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deberry said:
I think all GFE's should be BBBJ no questions asked. If it is not then it is not a GFE simple as that and we can better distinguish this and avoid it and give our hard earned $ to the SP's that are GFE's. There is nothing worse than a CBJ. May as well stay home. Plus it can't be that enjoyable for the SP having toxic latex in her mouth. There is too much propaganda out there about "safe sex".
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With an attitude like that many SPs hope you stay home.
 
A

athaire

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A

AA_Train

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Jul 19, 2007
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The acronyms PSE and GFE are total misnomers. It's companionship and sex for money. I've never paid a girlfriend for sex. Also, if it's a girlfriend experience, where's all the arguing, the nagging, the reassuring all her insecurity bullshit that you have to put up in a "regular" relationship? It doesn't (or shouldn't) exist in the client/SP relationship.

Also, just because a woman does BBBJ, CIM, COF Greek etc, doesn't mean that it's a PSE. I went out with a girl who loved it when I came on her face, she asked for it. It doesn't make her a porn star, it makes her a girl who likes cum on her face. I guess what I would classify as a PSE would be excessive moaning, screaming and dirty talk, although I've had girlfriends who have done that as well.

I think that these terms are problematic due to yet another lovely acronym YMMV. Personally, I don't think that women should describe themselves with either acronym. They should list their services and call themselves SPs, courtesans, hookers, hos etc, basically whatever they feel comfortable with and just focus on their clients experiencing them.
 
F

Feenix

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Let's face it. We will NEVER settle this argument. The definition of what the two terms mean will always be in the eye of the beholder. If Izzy, as an example only, offers me one level of service, it does not mean she will offer everyone the same level of service.

The terms may also have different definitions depending on one's geographic location. As pointed out, Montreal providers appear to be more "adventurous" with their service than many locals.

Because she is now gone, I can say that I have good reason to believe I was the only client who murdered Honey allowed to go down on her. (It was our secret.) So, it is also a case of YMMV. If a provider, such as Honey, has rules, she may bend them if the circumstances are right. Honey was not the only one with whom rules have been bent for me.

Just because an SP is listed as GFE or PSE does not mean she is going to provide that level of service with each client who visits her. She may offer less... or she may offer more.

The discussion continues...
 
I

island-guy

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The term GFE is meaningless and has been meaningless since it was created. Nothing can be implied from it and nothing can be assumed from it. It means nothing at all.

BBBJ means BBBJ.
CIM means CIM.
Greek means Greek.
etc...

PSE does tend to imply "Like you see in porn movies", again I'm not sure it is a good idea to attach a bunch of other acronyms to it, it's a way of behaving and not specific services. It would not be impossible to get a PSE handjob for example.
 
V

Vancouver Sara

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I think if a lady is advertised as GFE the expectations are that she allows kissing and daty. Whether oral is covered or uncovered seems to be the variable.
 
Alyssa Luscious

Alyssa Luscious

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i agree

I agree with Isabelle. :)
 
T

tedsweettangv

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I agree mostly with Izzy's definitions. GFE should mean BBBJ though, and anything else should be "Safe GFE" or some other determination that it is missing.

PSE I always thought should include some sort of dancing. Maybe it is because the only experience I ever had that I would call PSE was with Very Veronica and she started with a lap dance which was kind of cool.

Does anybody KISS in porns?
 
B

bcneil

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Heres a thought, why not just say what you offer in ads????

95% of ads, basically say nothing.
If you offer bbbj, put it in your ad
If you don't offer bbbj, put it in your ad.
If you do sometimes, put it in your ad.

Sure would make things too easy, if advertisers, whether it be here, craigslist or wherever, would just skip the bullshit
 
I

Irresistible Isabelle

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GoodKat said:
Never had a girlfriend insist I wear a condom during head. :cool:
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Not that I'm singling you out GK (I do like to banter & debate with you ;)) I do think that in general there is a wee bit of suspension of disbelief when it comes to this industry in that you probably (and hopefully) have never actually paid a GF for said activities and don't actually expect GFE's do do everything that GFs do. I can think of a lot of things that I've done as an actual GF (someone's laundry, sex with unsaved legs 'cause he said he really didn't care (read: couldn't wait), and everything that would count as PSE (which I do not offer as a service)) that I would never do as a GFE.

I agree with TSTv about the use of the term "Safe GFE", but I tend to disagree that GFE in general should automatically include BBBJ. Maybe the CBJ vs BBBJ thing could be considered separate issue? It's been my understanding that the term GFE in it's original form was just the inclusion of kissing and DATY, and had nothing to do with the specifics of BJ's (I could be wrong though) and that it was only wishful thinking on the part of pooners that tacked BBBJ's onto the menu.
 
F

FortunateOne

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bcneil said:
Heres a thought, why not just say what you offer in ads????

95% of ads, basically say nothing.
If you offer bbbj, put it in your ad
If you don't offer bbbj, put it in your ad.
If you do sometimes, put it in your ad.

Sure would make things too easy, if advertisers, whether it be here, craigslist or wherever, would just skip the bullshit
Click to expand...
As far as CL goes, you can't. You can't list these services at all, let alone with $ rates as it is against their guidelines and will allow the ad to get deleted. Some ads slip thru, but it is still an issue that will get the advertiser deleted or blocked, so the smart ones avoid details in CL ads.

As far as:
Does anybody KISS in porns?
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I don't think so, because they couldn't kiss AND go yes Yes YES oh OH OH THAT'S IT BABY OH YEAH!!! :D


I also think a PSE provider would be VERY aggressive, push you down and basically ravage you, or leave you lightheaded and a little befuddled afterwards. Or at least make you go:

OH YEAH BABY!!

when you're done ;)
 
J

James

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MHO?

GFE = was Issy said. DATY, Kissing, etc. Greek? Maybe, but I could care less about that particular stunt.

Never met Issy, want to, but that's for another day.
 
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