Should girls be allowed to play boy's hockey/football/rugby/... contact sports?

[Creole Lady Marmalade]

"How strong do you have to be to pull a trigger?"

I voted "yes" they should be allowed to play with the boys, but only because I speak from experience. I was even Captan for one team, for Chrissakes. I've played on a few boys teams because skill level was comparable and as well as there wasn't enough girls to produce a team. I think one other reason why it drove me to play is because I played with boys growing up and whenever they told me I couldn't do something just because of my sex it motivated me to a) give them the finger; b) prove to them that I could do just whatever they did, I could do too and in some cases better than them. And I got my fair share of bruises, scrapes and blackeyes and traded punches with more boys than with girls.

If a girl is going to want to play with the boys she has to realize and expect the consequences and possible pain that comes with it and never call herself a victim if and when the former and latter occurs. Simple as that.

Women may be physically weaker, but women are tops at endurance. A woman is built to produce and carry a child or more. With that extra weight and the pushing to extract the child is more strength no man can ever compare or experience.

 

[wilde]

Well GBM, looks like you have hit the hot potato issue for today.

I have a slightly different answer than everyone else. I am a proponent of never dissing something whether an idea or some ethic cuisine that I have not tried before. So my answer is by all means try it. If it doesn't work, it's not the end of the world. It would be prove that just because we have begun to treat the opposite sex as equal doesn't necessarily mean we are equal.

But there will be some thorny issues to be dealt with. For the boys, it could be a case of getting caught between a rock and a hard place. You are damned if you win (for trying too hard!?) and scolded for being beaten by the girls if you don't. Where do you draw the line between incidental contact and sexual contact? How long before a sexual harassment lawsuit? What if a boy and a girl on the same team (or on opposing teams) fell in love? What if they broke up? What if your best player can't play because she's on the rag? I guess what I am trying to say is that it is a good idea, but so was communism. However, I am open to giving it a try.

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[wolverine]

Maybe the best thing is just do away with sexual classification of sports altogether, and allow human beings to compete with each other regardless of sex. It's likely gonna happen sometime in the future.

 

[wilde]

With that extra weight and the pushing to extract the child is more strength no man can ever compare or experience.

Nor do we want to. Thanks but no thanks.



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[dirtydan]

Sorry Georgie, buts yah full of crap!

Over here in Manitoba land, teenage twin girls recently won a human rights ruling that they can try out for the boys high school hockey team, despite the school having a girls team. For quite some time the Manitoba High School Athletics Association and the Winnipeg High School Hockey League HAVE permitted girls to try out and if successful play on a boys team, provided the respective school does not already have a girls team. The twins in question, Amy and Jesse Pasternak, found the girls team at their school wasn't much above beginner level, which in turn was far below the quality of hockey these twins have been playing. They have been all-stars during their 11 years of playing with the boys. Furthermore these twins have NEVER played girls hockey, instead playing boys hockey including body contact rules. All with zero bitching from anyone until now. This includes a vindictive newspaper (Winnipeg Sun) and a silly propaganda campaign from the MSHAA.

The girls tried out for the school's boys hockey team and they were among the 13 cuts. I think a big reason is the girls haven't played organized hockey for about 2 years. The reason being the MSHAA and WHSHL don't allow players to play in more than one league. Meaning if you're cut by the boys team, you can't try out for the girls. Also it means if you play high school hockey then you can't play minor hockey and vice-versa.

Added to that the coach of the boys team along with the principal of the school lobbied the MSHAA to permit these twins to play for the boys team, but with no success. In the end the issue was pursued by the twins through the Manitoba Human Rights Commission.

In the end, I think too many guys still get their peckers in a knot when it comes to girls playing on the same team.

 

[dirtydan]

It causes a lot of problems in the real world. In the community center where our team plays there are two change rooms for each rink. Do parents really want their teenage daughters naked in a changeroom with a bunch of naked guys? Where will the extra changerooms and washrooms come from? You can't have one for girls and one for boys because then you would have to put the opposing teams into the same changeroom, and if it has been a "heated" game that would be very bad.
After a certain point the physical differences between the genders make the whole argument almost silly. If you look at the pictures of the Pasternak sister who was trying out for defence, she is dwarfed by the three guys standing next to her. Imagine a 5' 8" 160lb girl getting run into the boards by a 6' 2" 225lb guy. And then there's the occassional puck or butt end of a hockey stick in the face...
Hockey ain't fucking shuffleboard!

You're kidding, right?

 

[dirtydan]

That's why they're called BOYS teams. I too am sick of all the political correctness / the squeaky wheel minority groups always getting their way because everyone is afraid of offending someone. Why should boys be forced to play with girls if they don't want to? Can't guys have anything to themselves anymore? If there are BOTH girls and boys that want to play on teams together, then fine have a coed league. But for those that don't there are boys teams and girls teams. I'm sure boys would not be allowed to play on girls teams. There always seems to be a double standard. Women screamed it was discriminating to have mens only clubs and gyms etc., but are guys allowed into Spa Lady? They let women into female strip joints, but do they let guys into ladies night where there are male strippers?

You're off the mark. It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with equality of opportunity. Too many guys with their peckers in a knot are too quick to scream "political correctness" when there is some issue they disagree with.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Over here in Manitoba land, teenage twin girls recently won a human rights ruling that they can try out for the boys high school hockey team, despite the school having a girls team. For quite some time the Manitoba High School Athletics Association and the Winnipeg High School Hockey League HAVE permitted girls to try out and if successful play on a boys team, provided the respective school does not already have a girls team. The twins in question, Amy and Jesse Pasternak, found the girls team at their school wasn't much above beginner level, which in turn was far below the quality of hockey these twins have been playing. They have been all-stars during their 11 years of playing with the boys. Furthermore these twins have NEVER played girls hockey, instead playing boys hockey including body contact rules. All with zero bitching from anyone until now. This includes a vindictive newspaper (Winnipeg Sun) and a silly propaganda campaign from the MSHAA.

The girls tried out for the school's boys hockey team and they were among the 13 cuts. I think a big reason is the girls haven't played organized hockey for about 2 years. The reason being the MSHAA and WHSHL don't allow players to play in more than one league. Meaning if you're cut by the boys team, you can't try out for the girls. Also it means if you play high school hockey then you can't play minor hockey and vice-versa.

Added to that the coach of the boys team along with the principal of the school lobbied the MSHAA to permit these twins to play for the boys team, but with no success. In the end the issue was pursued by the twins through the Manitoba Human Rights Commission.

What a whole load of crap just to allow these 2 girls to play on boy's teams. In the end, this convoluted social experiment will fail exactly the way many of us (who have common sense) have predicted it will... if the girls haven't quit (citing some kind of gender issue, of course) before then.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Why does it hurt you when two little girls are happy?

Unlike you, I'm not personally hurt by almost all things we discuss on this website.

And as for these two poor little cute girls who gosh golly oughta have the opportunity just like everybody else to be gosh so darned golly gee happy, YES, I DESPISE LITTLE GIRLS AND I WANT THEM ALL TO BE MISERABLE! THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT! IF I DON'T SUPPORT THESE TWO TEENAGE GIRLS PLAYING HOCKEY, I AM A HATER OF CHILDREN ESPECIALLY INNOCENT LITTLE GIRLS!

My my, aren't we a tad manipulative.

 

[Azcanuck]

But there will be some thorny issues to be dealt with. For the boys, it could be a case of getting caught between a rock and a hard place. You are damned if you win (for trying too hard!?) and scolded for being beaten by the girls if you don't.
.

...and the first guy to run a girl through the end boards will look like a real meany. And there will be that one guy (or more) who will take the opportunity to do just that.

 

[Azcanuck]

If a girl is going to want to play with the boys she has to realize and expect the consequences and possible pain that comes with it and never call herself a victim if and when the former and latter occurs. Simple as that.

Excellent point, CLM.

 

[CJ Tylers]

How about teaching the boys how to have respect for girls (and boys) instead of separating them? A skill that would help them in life?

There are COED teams for this. They are wonderful organisations that encourage mutual respect, cooperation and fair play.

The point is, if a guy signs up for a MENS league, he shouldn't have to be forced into a coed league :|

And also, the guys in my example weren't assholes, at least not at first. Imagine how that first guy felt, after being told he had hit a girl (didn't know) and that he was going to have his ass handed to him if he came near her again.

It absolutely amazes me how much people don't give a rats ass about ALL the guys that put time and money into being in a mens league, rather than a coed league, and then piss on them for being upset when their MENS league is turned into a coed league BECAUSE a couple of girls aren't willing to suck it up and bring the womens league up to their level.

I call BS on all of that. I've watched womens ringette games... the competetive levels are not only vicious, but full of athletic and talented women. It easily translates to a womens hockey league, if they so desired. If two girls want a premier womens hockey league, then MAKE one. Get people fired up, get them interested.

Unless you're an NHL player or damned close to it and with professional aspirations and abilities... don't impinge upon the mens leagues.

In all of this, I am not saying anything negative about a woman athletes abilities (quite the contrary). I am not advocating being disrespectful of them (again, contrary). I AM ONLY ASKING PEOPLE TO (for once) RESPECT MEN/BOYS and their need to have that "guy time".

Somehow, in the last few years, we have lost this focus. "Guy time" is vital to the continued growth of males... call it male bonding, call it working out aggression... it is vital to the emotional and physical developement of males. Women also have "girl time", where men are not welcome to participate...and indeed...would be detrimental.

It's a physiolocigal and psychological need of our race... we need time apart in order to appreciate...or tolerate (in some cases)... the time together. To deny either sex that "alone" time is really not only disrespectful, but shameful.

 

[classycarly]

Girls on boys teams

If boys and girls can't handle playing sports together how could they be expected to perform well in co-ed schools or work together when they get their first McJob.

With all due respect, a "Mcjob" or school setting is a much different setting than a sports field or arena. The emotions, adrenalin and physiology of people who are in the midst of a competetive event are not neccesarily the same ones they would have when they are in a more docile atmosphere. It is human nature, I believe, to be even more aggressive when in a competition of any kind because we subconsciously feel the need to be the one who comes out on top. (Whether you admit it or not, it sucks to lose, inevitable for everyone eventually, but it still sucks). BTW, my apologies for misunderstanding the comment about little guys vs. big guys.

At a "Mcjob" or school, there is also more empahasis placed on boys and girls learning to work together than what the sports organizations have the time to do. They are not there to teach boys and girls to play nice, they are there to play a game with sportsmanship and hopefully win. The schools and parents are there to teach the kids about "playing nice". Also, if you can't keep yourself in check at a job, you get fired. A very good incentive to behave. Sports teams won't fire you or kick you off the team so the likelihood of shenanigans are greater than at at a job or school.

I don't think it's so much that boys and girls couldn't handle it, it's more that they shouldn't. I have a friend who's daughter was recruited to play rugby for an all star team up here and guess what...... they're an all girls team. She is tougher than most boys I know and very likely to get a scholarship, yet she wouldn't play on a boys team as she had once already and she said that when she played on the boys team, it was horrible.

The women out there who are pushing for the "girl power", are likely the same women who are the first to scream no when a boy wants to join a historically all female organization or team, and the first to yell out "creepy pedophile" when a man wants to head up his daughters Brownie troop. Why stand up for them when they are double talking faster than a crackhead in a pawnshop who needs money for a fix? These would probably be the same women who would sue a sports league for sexual harassment if a guy touched some girls butt while down in the "hut" position. (which happens by the way, it's part of a football game anyway, they always pat each others butts and the guy behind the guy passing off the ball has to reach under the other guys butt to grab the ball. Sometimes hands accidentaly connect with a butt or the genital area). God help the young lad who accidentally touched a girls private area while in the middle of a play.

I beleive we are doing a disservice to boys and girls to put them togther on contact sports teams and try to assimilate them, rather than celebrate their differences. Working together can be learned at school, work and home. Sometimes, boys just need to hang out with boys and girls need to hang out with just girls. If we have them together all the time, they have no space from each other. Let boys be boys and girls be girls. There are many more opportunities and avenues for them to be with each other

As ideal as it would be for some, you can't suck and blow at the same time. You can't allow one without the other: (IE: boys not allowed on girls teams... then girls not allowed on boys teams). If you want to talk about being fair, then both sides must play nice. If the women spent as much time trying to get enough support for all girls teams in contact sports as they do in trying to "break the gender barrier", we would have some really awesome female teams and the recognition for women's sports would start to materialize. Then, there would be no need for co-ed contact sports teams as the level of play and recognition involved would be on equal footing for both genders, just in different leagues. (After their respective games they can get together for a party.

 

[georgebushmoron]

If the women spent as much time trying to get enough support for all girls teams in contact sports as they do in trying to "break the gender barrier", we would have some really awesome female teams and the recognition for women's sports would start to materialize. Then, there would be no need for co-ed contact sports teams as the level of play and recognition involved would be on equal footing for both genders, just in different leagues.

How quickly we've forgotten that during the Winter Olympics, the Canadian women's teams brought home all the medals and everyone wondered what happened to the men. That is a stark example of what you speak of.... when women decide to focus on their own sports, they can bring us excellence.

But let's do away with all that, shall we? Let's allow men to compete against women in the Olympics and watch the majority of those medals disappear from female hands. They'll be screeching for segregation once again.

 

[slickitysplit]

Anita, respect goes both ways.

How about teaching the boys how to have respect for girls (and boys) instead of separating them? A skill that would help them in life?

To tell the truth, as long as I am the one laughing all the way to the bank I don't mind guys' juvenile locker room talk

Well Anita, it's pretty obvious that you don't respect men at all. So you tolerate them as long as you can get money from them is that it? You've pretty much insulted all the guys on here, so why anyone would see you is beyond me, unless as jjinvan said there are those that enjoy being insulted.

 

[slickitysplit]

You're off the mark. It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with equality of opportunity. Too many guys with their peckers in a knot are too quick to scream "political correctness" when there is some issue they disagree with.

I don't think it's about equality. Nobody is saying girls can't play the sports, just that if guys want to play amongst themselves that should be their choice. As I said why not have coed teams where both girls and boys mutually want to play together rather than girls forcing themselves onto boys teams that just want to play with boys? How is that equal for the boys that don't want it? Like the examples I gave and others did as well, there are more and more situations where there is a double standard. Like:
- There can't be men's only gyms, but there's Spa Lady for women only.
- Girls allowed into female strip bars, but guys aren't allowed into ladies nights where there are male strippers.
- As meetoo113 said, girls were allowed into Scouts but guys aren't allowed in Girl Guides.
So, how is this equal? I have no problem with girls having certain things to themselves and guys should as well. If not, then as GBM said, why not have everyone at the Olympic level compete against each other rather than having men's and women's events. Then let's hear the outcry that it's not fair.

 

[westwoody]

this "male bonding" period is where guys pick up the contemptious attitude

So males should never be left alone together? They should always be under female supervision? I guess I won't be able to have my friends over to play on my pool table without a court-ordered female observer in attendance.

 

[westwoody]

why anyone would see you is beyond me, unless as jjinvan said there are those that enjoy being insulted.

From her reviews it would seem to be guys who aren't picky about looks, don't care for sex, and want things shoved up their asshole. Just calling it as I see it.

HEY! I see that you have already deleted your witty riposte to this post.

 

[CJ Tylers]

Sorry, this is a bunch of bull. Obviously, this "male bonding" period is where guys pick up the contemptious attitude towards women I can see on these boards every day. It would do both sexes good if they would learn who to co-exist in peace. There would be a lot less unhappy marriages.

As a matter of fact, this thread opened up my eyes, and now I can see that you guys are not born with animosity against women in general, but are MADE so through this "male bonding" amongst yourselves.... Now, instead of resenting you, I feel sorry for you for your inability to relate to woman normally.

And prithee, less than fair lady, where doest thou pick up thine contemptous and unwarranted attitude?

Male Bonding is a vital part of a mans daily life... it does not, as you may wish to believe, create animosity towards women. In fact, women come up very little during those times. Mostly, yapping about sports, fishing, video games or other shared interests comes up. It is a time for comraderie, where we can finally relax and let down our gaurds.... something that cannot happen anywhere else.

The two female hockey players had equality... they had their own league in which no male was allowed to be part. They wanted more than equality... and they are fighting to be more than equal. This does not seem like a fair and equitable situation to me. Equal does not mean the same.... and it would be a tragic world if it did.

There is much coexistance in this world, it is almost nigh but unescapable in every day life. You, however, have obviously NOT learned to coexist with men... you look down on them, lie to them (I assume, only because of the face you put on here is probably different from what you let your customers and men in your life see...which is lying to them) and entirely disrespect their views and opinions. Let me tell you something lady, equality and respect go hand in hand AND they have to be applied BOTH ways.

However, I see you are both unwilling to see... or incapable of seeing... the truth in this matter. Your mind is not even open to the slightest suggestion that guys and girls are different, have different needs.

Did you know that girls and guys learn differently in school? Why guys do better in some academic courses, while girls excel more in others? There are always exceptions, but it has to do with the way our brains are hard wired.

It doesn't take a scientist to realize it. You don't even need to read a book on the subject, although 'Brain Sex', 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' and a few others would be a good start.

For boys and girls to grow in a healthy manner, you CANNOT treat them as exactly the same. You can, and should, treat them as equals. They have different needs which should be addressed.

Now Anita, I can see that you are a touch more advanced in the years than myself, so I am willing to cut you a break here. You grew up in a far more intolerant world in which 'old boys networks', covert and overt discrimination and general "disrespecting" of womens rights was still quite apparent.

I, on the other hand, was brought up in a house hold and a school system which emphasized equality, respect and cooperation. A strong sense of justice tends to run through my veins, but I have also been tought to look at the issue from both sides of the looking glass.

In any case, it seems you read only what you want to see, comment on what you think you've read and generally twist the words of those who have differeing opinions to yours in order to suit your purposes. Perhaps you could try listening to them, rather than simply railing against them?

That you were born somewhere else... Europe... would have, I had hoped, allowed you to have a more open mind about these things. Most Europeans I meet seem far more sensible than a great deal of north american women. However, you seem even more set in this negative rut than most.

Oh...and to the guys... lay off the personal insults eh? Her looks and personality during a session have nothing to do with the question at hand, so please don't bring them in. It doesn't make for a good conversation and all it does is give her more ammunition and support for the negative views on men that she has posted on here.

 

[visiting]

It would be interesting to see who has played competitive sports, and who has not. I myself have played a few competitive sports years ago. Both Team Sports & individual Sports. I have also coached... Maybe those that have played have different views that those that haven't played. Obviously we are talking compeitive sports. If you play ball hockey in front of your friends house, dosen't matter how competitive it gets, that is not comeptitive sports, there needs to be a league at least, referee's, and a point system to be considered competitve.

For the record I have no problem with little girls, (or big girls) MAKING the team, but not to be "placed" on a team. That said I am only talking about contact sports, I obviously have no problem with other sports, like ultimate frisbee, or flag football, or bowling, tennis, shot put, javelin trowing, golf, saliing, motor sports etc etc etc.


Now getting back to male bonding, it happens.... And on Women's teams, guess what female bonding happens, I just can't tell you if it happens as much, never seen it first hand.