http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/const_index.html
Since it has never been illegal in Canada to buy sex, the "Nordic Model" violates an existing freedom.
SCC Decision...Thoughts?
- Thread starter Ms Erica Phoenix
- Start date
The nordic styal of fix wont stand up to our charter of rights and freedom..
If you read the dicision.. you will find wording that can easily be used to strick down any new law amed at johns
This anbiuious styial of law making that canada has is going to come to an end
If you read the dicision.. you will find wording that can easily be used to strick down any new law amed at johns
This anbiuious styial of law making that canada has is going to come to an end
Unfortunately, I fear that now the feds will move to make prostitution itself illegal. I don't think the Charter could prevent them from doing that. Making it illegal would play to the Conservative "base", and it would be very politically risky for the other major parties to declare themselves in favour of prostitution. The Conservatives could actually see the court ruling as a gift from the Supreme Court, giving them a new issue to add to their next election campaign platform.
....but the sex workers have a right to employment/make a living..........therefore, I doubt the gov't would be able to make the source of that living illegal, namely the johns. They might try, but I think that would disappear faster then the snow we're having.
People who grow marijuana presumably have the same right to make a living as do sex workers. Apparently the Charter doesn't prevent the government from eliminating the ability of marijuana growers to make a living.
As I understand it the Supreme Court ruled that laws preventing practitioners of a legal profession from practicing that profession in a safe environment are unconstitutional. However, if the profession itself were to be made illegal, the ruling would become moot, with respect to prostitution. I think we'll now see an attempt to make the profession of prostitution illegal.
we are all totally exstatic here!! i went to pivot this morning for the reading at 6:45. it was awesome. libby davies was with us and so are the NPD. we cried and drank champagne and hugged each other....
it hasn't really set in yet....i testified in 2006.....crazy shit....
we have done significant work in vancouver to take control of what happens now and have a vpd non enforcement policy as well as the city of vancouver have also been working with us towards better business licensing and a safer sex industry here. we are frimly planted at the table so will not be facing any reactionary actions here.
the police and city are behind us. i hope that this work will be replicated by other municipalities and the police and city staff have committed to promoting our experiences here as a template across canada.
the nordic model is a threat. so is joy smith. we have tried to meet with her repeatedly and even complained about her refusal to listen to the federal ombudsman for the victims of crime.....
we will keep fighting though....gonna continue celebrating now!!
love you all!
susieXXXO
it hasn't really set in yet....i testified in 2006.....crazy shit....
we have done significant work in vancouver to take control of what happens now and have a vpd non enforcement policy as well as the city of vancouver have also been working with us towards better business licensing and a safer sex industry here. we are frimly planted at the table so will not be facing any reactionary actions here.
the police and city are behind us. i hope that this work will be replicated by other municipalities and the police and city staff have committed to promoting our experiences here as a template across canada.
the nordic model is a threat. so is joy smith. we have tried to meet with her repeatedly and even complained about her refusal to listen to the federal ombudsman for the victims of crime.....
we will keep fighting though....gonna continue celebrating now!!
love you all!
susieXXXO
From my very cursory reading of the situation and what I have seen of the Conservative Party, I would anticipate that they will move to make prostitution illegal. Will look good for their voter base and they have already shown they don't need a majority of votes to have a majority in Parliament. And they will need even fewer votes next time round to maintain power given the gerrymandering that has been taking place in terms of electoral boundaries. They have little to gain by introducing humane and rational laws for this (and will probably lose part of their core voter support by doing so). Look at the battle they've put up over Insite.
Hate to be negative, and I would love to be wrong over this, but I believe there will be significant battles ahead.
Hate to be negative, and I would love to be wrong over this, but I believe there will be significant battles ahead.
The sad part is the last advance of the last 20 years are the only things that made this possible.. which the judge's decision alluded to.
If it was not for the horror and world wide attention that the Pickton murders got... There would stil be no grounds accetable to justife.. stricking down portions of the . prostitution law.. as violating a person same rights to safe working environment.
Considering the sex trade workers and women in general. have been abused threatened and killed.. throughout the decades. there still was not a general consensus. that they had rights do a safe environment to work and live
The Pickton and Green river mass killing . showed that there were individuals cifically target women working a positive... put them and the work environment in danger..And showed they were entitled to security.. and a safe working environment for doing legal activity.
If it was not for the horror and world wide attention that the Pickton murders got... There would stil be no grounds accetable to justife.. stricking down portions of the . prostitution law.. as violating a person same rights to safe working environment.
Considering the sex trade workers and women in general. have been abused threatened and killed.. throughout the decades. there still was not a general consensus. that they had rights do a safe environment to work and live
The Pickton and Green river mass killing . showed that there were individuals cifically target women working a positive... put them and the work environment in danger..And showed they were entitled to security.. and a safe working environment for doing legal activity.
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How does anybody take those comments or this woman seriously?
The fundamental rights and freedoms of any woman are to make decisions on what SHE wants to do, not what some moralistic nit wit decides is good for her. Really, what fucking right does she have to tell any woman (or man, for that matter) what she can or can't do with her body? These self-appointed moralists seem to think all SP's are brain-damaged idiots who can't make decisions about how they want to earn a living. Protecting marginalized women is not what is at stake. They want to control all women with THEIR repressed, twisted view of morality.
from wiki Sweden prostitution law wiki
Following the passage of the law, the Government provided 7 million crowns ($1 million US) to the National Police Board [55] for enforcement. [56] Extra police were hired and vehicles in known areas of street work placed under surveillance. Ninety one reports were filed in 1999, and a reduction in visible prostitution was noted while acknowledging that estimating the actual activity of prostitution was extremely difficult, and that it was quite possible it had merely gone underground. The difficulties of enforcement were immediately noted by the police who had opposed the law, and the difficulty in getting a conviction was even harder under Swedish judicial procedure and the rights of citizens. Few of the reports in 1999 were concluded. Six convictions were obtained, and fines imposed. Difficulties in even understanding the law were noted, and understandably prostitutes were reluctant to inform or testify against their clients. The Socialstyrelsen (National Board of Health and Welfare) noted that estimating the extent of prostitution was almost impossible. A number of reports suggest that prostitution was at a low level in Sweden, and was on the decline, but may have experienced a slight increase in the 1990s. [57] As expected there was an immediate decrease in the visible spectrum, as seen in other countries introducing repressive legislation (e.g. Street Offences Act 1959, U.K.) followed fairly rapidly by displacement to the less visible spectrum. [2]
So, imagine Stevey and his cronies, after they run a check on each other and make promises they won't poon anymore
, enacting this type of new law taylor-made (she gave good head didn't she for those who remember Taylor-Made) for the Conservatives in Canada today, and them throwing a ton of cash at enforcing it . . . man, the blue balls around the country eh.
Probably make prostitution illegal, make buying sex illegal, make disagreeing with them illegal, make Stevey the Ayatollah Harper, and build more jails, oh wait, building more jails is already on the agenda.
And, "Bunny Ranch" in Canada - damn that idea has to light the fires under the Cs
Following the passage of the law, the Government provided 7 million crowns ($1 million US) to the National Police Board [55] for enforcement. [56] Extra police were hired and vehicles in known areas of street work placed under surveillance. Ninety one reports were filed in 1999, and a reduction in visible prostitution was noted while acknowledging that estimating the actual activity of prostitution was extremely difficult, and that it was quite possible it had merely gone underground. The difficulties of enforcement were immediately noted by the police who had opposed the law, and the difficulty in getting a conviction was even harder under Swedish judicial procedure and the rights of citizens. Few of the reports in 1999 were concluded. Six convictions were obtained, and fines imposed. Difficulties in even understanding the law were noted, and understandably prostitutes were reluctant to inform or testify against their clients. The Socialstyrelsen (National Board of Health and Welfare) noted that estimating the extent of prostitution was almost impossible. A number of reports suggest that prostitution was at a low level in Sweden, and was on the decline, but may have experienced a slight increase in the 1990s. [57] As expected there was an immediate decrease in the visible spectrum, as seen in other countries introducing repressive legislation (e.g. Street Offences Act 1959, U.K.) followed fairly rapidly by displacement to the less visible spectrum. [2]
So, imagine Stevey and his cronies, after they run a check on each other and make promises they won't poon anymore
, enacting this type of new law taylor-made (she gave good head didn't she for those who remember Taylor-Made) for the Conservatives in Canada today, and them throwing a ton of cash at enforcing it . . . man, the blue balls around the country eh. Probably make prostitution illegal, make buying sex illegal, make disagreeing with them illegal, make Stevey the Ayatollah Harper, and build more jails, oh wait, building more jails is already on the agenda.
And, "Bunny Ranch" in Canada - damn that idea has to light the fires under the Cs
The CPC takes her seriously. They adopted her ideas as the basis of their policy at the recent party convention. You would suggest that the CPC consists of reasonable people; do you have any evidence for that?
What is interesting is that many of the people that now argue that we will get the "Nordic" solution were saying that because Harper appointed some of the Supreme Court Justices, they didn't have any independence and would rule in lockstep with Conservative Party policy.
That was proven wrong today when all 9 of the sitting Supreme Court Justices ruled that the current laws on prostitution violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I have no doubt that the Harper government will introduce and push through new law on prostitution. That law will be challenged almost directly to the Supreme Court of Canada who will hear it in late 2014/early 2015. The next federal election is in October of 2015. No matter what the Supreme Court rules, it will be an election issue. I'm betting that the Supreme Court of Canada will be insulted if the best the Conservatives can do is the "Nordic" solution, because the "Nordic" solution is going to also violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms with about as much justification as the law that the Supreme Court of Canada has already thrown out.
I don't believe that the Harper government CAN write a law that will pass muster with their membership and also pass scrutiny by the Supreme Court of Canada. The annulling of that new law on prostitution will result in a mess that the Trudeau government will have to clean up fairly early in their mandate.
That was proven wrong today when all 9 of the sitting Supreme Court Justices ruled that the current laws on prostitution violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I have no doubt that the Harper government will introduce and push through new law on prostitution. That law will be challenged almost directly to the Supreme Court of Canada who will hear it in late 2014/early 2015. The next federal election is in October of 2015. No matter what the Supreme Court rules, it will be an election issue. I'm betting that the Supreme Court of Canada will be insulted if the best the Conservatives can do is the "Nordic" solution, because the "Nordic" solution is going to also violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms with about as much justification as the law that the Supreme Court of Canada has already thrown out.
I don't believe that the Harper government CAN write a law that will pass muster with their membership and also pass scrutiny by the Supreme Court of Canada. The annulling of that new law on prostitution will result in a mess that the Trudeau government will have to clean up fairly early in their mandate.
He could invoke the Notwithstanding clause of the Charter.
This maintains the status quo and pushes the decision 5 more years into the future - giving him more time for 'sober' consideration and not have it interfere with their carefully laid-out election plans.
No decision keeps everyone equally unhappy but not enough to seriously affect the vote.
No. The federal government is NOT going to waste an invocation of the Notwithstanding clause on saving the laws surrounding prostitution. Especially not when this clause's most prominent use to date has been by the Quebec separatist governments to protect the French language laws.
And most especially not when the SCC not only upheld the OCA decision striking down the "bawdy house" and "living off the avails" sections but ALSO struck down the "soliciting" clause (which had previously been tinkered with years earlier) - and did it all UNANIMOUSLY. Not even separate concurring decisions arriving at the same result from different approaches (as often happens), but ALL 9 JUDGES agreeing in a SINGLE UNIFIED decision.
Do you have any idea how RARE that is at the SCC level?
My personal suspicion: the federal government will take the easiest approach here - the same one that was taken when the abortion provision was struck down - and do NOTHING. Just ... let it go. It can put the issue on the back-burner "to study" for the next year - and none of the people like Joy who are screaming now can really say too much about that. Then, a year from now, when the white heat of anger of the antis has lost its public vim and vigour, just say it has decided, as an experiment, to leave things as they are and let the provinces and municipalities deal with issues like "street nuisance" (the excuse for the section on solicitation in the first place) by local regulations the same as those put in place for any other street vendor. And say it will re-visit the issue in a few years if it turns out that there ARE major problems popping up because of the removal of the law (which there won't be).
If Harper is not going to use the CPC majority to do something about abortion (a much hotter 'hot button' issue for religious fundamentalists), there is no reason for him to do it for prostitution.
I wish.
I really wish you are right.
But this is the CPC we're talking about. With a closed-minded 18th century moralistic base.
This was all planned. Their appointees to the SCOC did what they were supposed to do. Burn and clear the ground for the new law.
If a progressive government were in power to draft a new law I'd be cheering. But with Harper and his cronies? The sex-workers and their supporters just shot themselves in the foot. The status quo is way better than what will arise in a year of Tory 'deliberations'.
I so hope I'm proven wrong...
My personal opinion about your theory regarding the Conservatives' SCC appointees having been given "instructions"? Complete and total balderdash.
For that matter, the size of the "close-minded 18th century moralistic base" in the CPC is at least equally matched by the size of the "classic conservative / libertarian" base, which believes that government should stay out of citizens' lives as much as possible and that the desire to do social policy meddling to achieve social engineering goals is a symptom of modern liberal nanny-statism.
The charter violation is having laws that make legal activities illegal to engage in at a practical level.
The solution the government will come up with (these are the Conservatives after all) will be to make prostitution itself illegal. Once they do that, the conflict of law with the charter will disappear.
I think this is an issue that publically they don't approve of, but in private don't care. So, they were happy for the status quo to continue.
Now their hand is forced and they have to legislate. And I think it is a pretty safe bet that they are going to be neither progressive nor liberal in the laws they come up with.
So, enjoy your year of status quo that you have left, because change that you are not going to be happy about will be coming.
Only if prostitution itself is legal. Once it becomes illegal, they will have the same right to employment/earning a living that anyone else engaged in an illegal activity has, in other words none.
If you earned a living growing or selling coke for example, or being a professional assassin, the charter will not protect you from being sent to prison if caught.
