Ray-re Arnold Toynbee. It`s evident how the internet and google has made experts of us all. Without having read or studied Toynbee, you become a socalled expert by referral to some scholar or other who negates Professor Toynbee. This is easy to do. Nonetheless, Toynbee is one of the giants of historical thinking. Scholars always critique one another--par for the course. In the meantime, non-scholars become instant scholars not by reading the original but by finding an easy critical piece and therefore negating the opposition. In a way, I must thank you. You`ve opened my eyes to the detractions of the internet in terms of scholarly activity and critical thinking. You dismiss Robert Spencer`s translations of the Koran for one of your own. Neither of us are adept in Arabic but, again, your lack of critical thinking doesn`t even make it possible to acknowledge that you could be wrong. I do, incidentally. So thanks to google, everyone is a `scholar`.
Scary! Madness of the Tea Party (video)
- Thread starter Miss*Bijou
- Start date
Well, live and learn. I guess silliness does indeed cross all kinds of boundaries.
Interestingly, after viewing the Robert Fisk video on Lebanon, Dr. Barry Rubin of the Gloria Foundation has just published an article entitled `Lebanon 101``. this might prove to be interesting reading to anyone who wishes to gain an alternative and up-to-date perspective on the situation in this beautiful country as it stands now. You can google the author.
Just read an article on the election in the USA in Pajamas Media, Hank, about `Republican Minorities`sweeping to victory all over the USA. The one I quoted about a Black congressman in South Carolina is far from unique. Other minority Republicans from South Carolina, Florida, Texas and New Mexico and other states, including more Blacks, a Native American Indian and Hispanics were swept into office. It appears that the Tea Party Movement was not limited to White middle-class Americans as you suggested. Kindly read the article and then let`s have your considered response.
While the article was not specific about which of these winners were Tea Partiers as opposed to traditional Republicans (and the lady in S. Carolina is not a Native American, but an Indian-American), my considered opinion is still that silliness is crossing boundaries. Bringing back the failed Republicans does not seem like a good future for the US or the world.
Fixed that with a question mark.
I think he was a far better campaigner than he has been as President. Even though he was dealt a terrible hand, he has been a terrible communicator about the successes he has had, which have at least lead the country a little closer to what it should be. I think he should have done far more -- closed Guantanamo, gotten rid of the "don't ask, don't tell," concentrated on anti-terror actions rather than a military buildup in Afghanistan (which was never part of his policy, but should have been), gotten a far better medical plan that didn't cave in to the insurance companies and health corporations and which didn't cost so much, pushed a genuine climate action plan through the stupid congress, not appointed the Wall Street foxes in charge of the henhouse, etc. etc. I would rather have seen him go down in glory than through a death of a thousand cuts.
And even if he had done nothing so far, it is still far better than still being mired even more in Iraq under McCain, and with Sarah Palin running around embarassing the country as VP. Success is relative. Who knows, maybe he will do better in the next two years.
I take offense with this.
I haven't engaged in any Israel-bashing on this thread.
In the last 4 pages, I've expressed a strong opinion against the leadership in the Arab/Muslim world. I did not say anything about Israel, except to point out an error in your statement. Where did you get this from?
BTW, I have been agreeing with you regarding the corrupt governance in the Arab world.
No, unfortunately, I don't read or speak any other language.
The errors of omission, however, cannot be attributed to 'translations'.
What Robert Spencer appears to do, and you are quoting him, is take a partial sentence out of a paragraph, and then add your own context. The only problem with that is, when you read the original paragraph in it's entirety, it contradicts the context that has been created.
This isn't an error in translation, but obfuscation.
Here's my point, Ray: Neither of us read or speak Arabic. Both of us are obliged to accept translations. The difference is that you argue your version of the translation is correct whereas I admit that there is a dispute, that the correct translation is tendentious, and that one or both versions may be far off base or may possess only limited accuracy.
Having involved myself in translating literary works from foreign languages, having also studied the translation process, i.e., see Ezra Pound, "The ABC of Reading", I can tell you that translating literary works (include the Koran) from one language to another means trying to transcribe meaning; meaning, however, is inextricably tied up with culture (language cannot be separated from the culture in which it's embedded "the Whorfian Hypothesis") so that the translation never comes out quite accurately when translated into a language related to another culture (context). Taking the case referred to, do you think there could be a cultural component related to the relevant surahs which we have discussed? Remember, there are five separate schools of Muslim legal thought. Undoubtedly, experts from each school draw different interpretations from the same text. I say "undoubtedly" because I know that the Talmud as well as later Jewish thought is replete with differing interpretations of the same passages and stories in the Torah. I also know that differing schools within the Catholic umbrella have varying interpretations of the same passages in the New Testament and that interpretations vary even more when all Christian sects are taken into consideration.
Given my response, Ray, would you be willing to admit that your interpretation of the relevant surah could be off base or, at least, exceedingly limited?
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chapter and verse
does this not make you wish you were back in Phoenix?.
In a special twenty-minute commentary, Keith Olbermann blisteringly indicts this election season’s wave of “tea party candidates,” entirely by quoting their own words. The picture revealed is of “a group of unqualified, unstable individuals who will do what they are told, in exchange for money and power, and march this nation as far backward as they can get.”
Really, this is worth watching. A small preview:
I cannot believe people can be that dumb...or even dumber and vote for these clowns? wtf? Anyway - Watch the video or read the transcript at MSNBC for the rest.
It gets better (or worse?)..
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Don't bother. He subscribes to a theory that all nations and multinationals are really run by a secret cabal of Jewish bankers and royalty who give out the marching orders, and have been for centuries. Seriously. Just the latest handle of Silky, who has been banned under numerous names, but keeps popping up like a whack-a-mole.
The idea that rich folks share pretty much the same policy goals, and influence elections and policies through the use of big money is just not enough of an all-encompassing conspiracy theory. They all meet in secret and plaln exactly what wars will be waged, who will be assassinated, when we will all be herded into death camps, etc. And he has proof through internet videos.
Just sayin' that there are far crazier folks than you around; you are out of your league.
Again, it might surprise you to know that this isn't anything new. This sort of thing has been going on since the dawn of civilization. Kings, Monarchys and other gov'ts have been doing this for centuries if not millenia. Kings plotting against kings for land, resources and power, waging wars for religion, gold, oil, water...food....money.... it goes on and on.
What do you suppose that we do to change? In you own words, please.
Talk about being a puppet, look who's getting his strings pulled yet again by the wingnuts. TheLoftyOne, talk about being deluded, how about calling yourself Herpes. Just like that pesky virus, nobody wants you around and every time you are gotten rid of, you crop up again. What a sad little man you must be to only have the balls to spout your crap from behind a keyboard instead of actually going out in the world and putting your ass on the line for what you profess to believe in.
I am aware of this, and this was the basis of the book 'Orientalism' by Edward Said who knocked the Europeans who attempted to become 'experts' on eastern cultures by learning local languages and trying to translate their books.
It was more of a direct knock at Bernard Lewis.
I do concede that those who study this at a scholarly level by reading the original documents in the source language will have a deeper insight than myself who, like you say, reads other people's translations.
And what name will you be using at this "truth" tent ? It's not like I can show up and ask for TheLoftyOne. Your wingnut buddies would probably send me over to the nearest JW.
As to not being sued, try the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. He's smart enough to stay within it's very limited limits. Zionists are smart that way.
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Errrrr ok, this thread's gone in all kinds of directions, hasn't it.
Well alright then.
I read something earlier and some of it brought this earlier post to mind. And I thought it was a good read, so I'll share the link (won't bother to post the text or part of it as some people don't seem to like that for some reason..). It's a speech made by Bill Moyers at Boston University on October 29, 2010, as a part of the Howard Zinn Lecture Series:
"Welcome to the Plutocracy!"
The first Howard Zinn Memorial Lecture is delivered by veteran journalist, Bill Moyers. Citing Zinn as his inspiration, Moyers focuses on the challenges facing our democracy. He decried what he says has been a 30-year trend toward plutocracy, where the rich get richer at the expense of the average citizen.
(Howard Zinn, the political activist and author who taught for 24 years in the College of Arts & Sciences political science department, died in January.)
Text Version
Video Version
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Thank you Miss Bijou for posting these videos by two very credible and respected reporters Robert Fisk and John Pilger. These two very brave people have not only talked the talk, but they have walked the walk to get into the heart and pulse of what feeds the Muslim hatred towards the West. I hope everyone on the board actually takes time to watch them.
