Reality check on electric cars.

[johnsmit]

When it comes to electric or hybrid cars.. There is the hype and then there is reality ..
It sounds great to help the environment. . and save money on gas.
But is there any saving and are they very practical for the average mobil family..
Look at some of the real data.. I have driven a few for my work .and so have some of my Co workers .Here is some of the feed back ..

The Kia sole total electric .. gets 180 km to a full charge.The one i transported had a 154km range charge and that toke me from victoria to the north shore with 50 km remaining there was no passive regeneration or recovery system on this car .just a big battery.
It was not made for any trip over 60 km..because in my case I would not be able to return home with out pluging it in for 4 hr.

The toyota prius is another one I have driven. they are a hybrid that have a gas motor to run on for exter power and charge battery. .They allso have passive recovery through braking and down hill regeneration. Still have to put gas in it ..because it is not a plug in and it not a very big battery to run car off of for any distance ..And it won't go any where with out gas. The most annoying thing about the Pruis is the display which is just some was of hyping the driver by showing how the power is being disturbed from battery to drive ..from motor to battery or to drive .It is very distracting .

Other vehicals are the Ford fusion. .. Ford Explorer. . For escape .all hybrids . they have a way simpler way of showing how power is distrutied then the Pruis but still needs gas and like the Pruis they have stating problem . The electrical system have a tendancy to get drained and there have been a number of time they need jumping at dealer or to get on and off ferries .

There are a few other like the Leaf which seems to be popular . it us total electric and has a good recovery system . .One drive on a trip from vancouver to victoria .had more charge range on the car at end of drive then when he started with it.

The other is the Chev Volt.. I only talked to the dealer about this one.. and they said it allways needed charging .it uses it battery to do small trip but there is a gas motor that acts as a generator to charge it .or you plug it in
Its range on battery alone is 38 km.. With a fuel tank of gas and being charged by motor.340 km.

Is there any saving .worth the cost ..and limitation of most of these cars.?.
Personally a total electric car is no good for any one that drive around through the day..and has no place to plug in for a few hrs at a time ..and it means you only can make short trip. You would be greener if you walked. ...or if you need to ride .then one if those electric scooters would be cheaper at 5000$ ..compared to $40000.

I don't think our society is set up for electric cars or even transit systems..because of the distances we still have to commute. .

Note of appreciation. and disgust.
That being said ..I do think the great Vancouver system is amazing for how spread out the main land is and far superior to Victoria and the island transit system..which is a mish mash public and privet .and only effecting on well used routes
Island route you end up waiting for busses that run three time aday . and an electric car won't get you even between the closet town .with out a recharge.:-(

 

[Riza]

I am not a expert or even knowledgeable in hybrid and or electric cars but I have one observation and was hoping someone would comment on it. I have a friend that has a electric car and puts on the I'm greener than anyone persona and has created a conflict, well more like argument between us. I am the first to admit that when he is driving his electric car around he is not putting out any pollutants in the atmosphere but in my opinion his vehicle is anything but "green" Correct me if I am wrong but when he goes home after a day of driving around the city he has to plug his car in to charge for the night. I could be wrong but I believe that energy he is using from the "grid" had to be generated somewhere. Natural gas, nuclear or even coal generating plants. I know there is a possibility some of the energy came from renewable sources like solar or wind but its only a small percentage.

My take on it is if you drive conservatively with a well maintained and fuel efficient vehicle, preferably a hybrid you aren't doing much more harm than a fully electric vehicle. I think the electric vehicles give a false sense of green to people until the day comes that they charge themselves while sitting outside in the sun through solar panels or if you happen to have a windmill in your back yard that plugs into your car then you can boast having the greenest car on the block.

Just my take on it, maybe wrong but what the heck, might as well dice it up a little on a Sunday. lol

XOXOXOXO Riza

 

[johnsmit]

Well hour prob . right about it voting of the grid as per say
.In B.C. and much of the north west our power comes from hydro electric .produce by Dans and water pressure. .All though there is some alternative sources from natural gas generators..methane powered generators .and some wind generators .that feed the grid.
Of course in the US. There is nuclear ..coal fired..oil and gas.....and the green generators solar and wind ..
But then again the amount of pollution and resource used to make even a dam may out way it green benefits.

But your friend can gloat a bit. although he has fallen for the hype. With out knowing the facts..about what his true carbon foot print is when it comes to his total way of life , past and pressent

 

[hornygandalf]

I'm generally in favour of alternatives that have a lower environmental impact than the normal car (I almost always travel by transit), but something that tends to be forgotten in electric cars are the batteries, and the process that goes into making the batteries (the toxicity of some of the resources used and the mining of those resources).

 

[westwoody]

if you happen to have a windmill in your back yard

I want one of those. You can get a 23Kw generator that gives you 200 amp service, good enough for most houses.

Electric cars? The Porsche 918 and LaFerrari supercars are hybrids. There's even a Porsche Cayenne hybrid. And a Benz S-Class hybrid.

With those guys taking electric cars that seriously they are here to stay.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

i think hybrids are ideal for taxis, and pure electric are ideal for delivery cars that have all night/day to recharge

but for the average family, in general, the savings are unlikely to equal or exceed the additional capital and maintenance costs

in terms of the environmental balance, all the ins and outs of toxicities and resources used and the costs of mining can be so complex as to be almost unsolveable. but i find that a good thorough economic analysis will pretty much automatically take environmental factors into account, and give you proper environmental balance as well

that last is definitely a generalization, as cheaper doesn't always equal more environmentally balanced, but in most cases it does. an example is that if something costs significantly more to build and maintain, then significantly more resources are going into it, and significantly more environmental effect is being incurred. simplistic yes, but lay person's such as ourselves can't be expected to unravel the many layers of environmental factors - many of which are actually unknowns or wild-assed guesses at this time

 

[Five-Guns-West]

What, no review for the Tesla?

Why would anyone buy that bullshit piece of technology?

 

[canuck33660]

I am not a expert or even knowledgeable in hybrid and or electric cars but I have one observation and was hoping someone would comment on it. I have a friend that has a electric car and puts on the I'm greener than anyone persona and has created a conflict, well more like argument between us. I am the first to admit that when he is driving his electric car around he is not putting out any pollutants in the atmosphere but in my opinion his vehicle is anything but "green" Correct me if I am wrong but when he goes home after a day of driving around the city he has to plug his car in to charge for the night. I could be wrong but I believe that energy he is using from the "grid" had to be generated somewhere. Natural gas, nuclear or even coal generating plants. I know there is a possibility some of the energy came from renewable sources like solar or wind but its only a small percentage.

My take on it is if you drive conservatively with a well maintained and fuel efficient vehicle, preferably a hybrid you aren't doing much more harm than a fully electric vehicle. I think the electric vehicles give a false sense of green to people until the day comes that they charge themselves while sitting outside in the sun through solar panels or if you happen to have a windmill in your back yard that plugs into your car then you can boast having the greenest car on the block.

Just my take on it, maybe wrong but what the heck, might as well dice it up a little on a Sunday. lol

XOXOXOXO Riza

Frankly your friend is an ASSHOLE and typical of most greenies.

Let him explain how much toxins and energy goes into producing the batteries and various other items necessary to produce his so call green car.

For me, I just roll out my garage of cars that contain one with a V10, two V8 and a turbo charged V6. Oh I also have two fucking big diesel engines in my boat.

It my big one finger salute to all those fucking greenies.

 

[Lo-ki]

If the electric cars are so great...why are they so friggin expensive.

 

[1nitestan]

Someone wanted a review of the Tesla? I had the chance to live with one (my relative's P85) for a few days when I was in California couple months ago. It's an amazing car filled with cool shit like automatically adjustable ride height via its active suspension. It's fast*, fashionable and it has real usable range (250+ miles on a full charge). Although you can plug it in every night, Tesla has constructed a network of their own "supercharger" stations that will charge up you car in about 30 minutes. More stations are coming online in the USA and they are not simply concentrated in the urban centers.

Did I say it was fast? Hell yeah. Tipping into the "throttle", the 85kW motor which is about the size of a beer keg gets you from 0-60mph in 4.2sec. The latest AWD model "D" does this in 3.2s. The location of the motor (just behind the back seat) and the low placement of the batteries makes for an incredible handling car. It'll carve canyons all damn day.

It also has two rear facing seats in the rear section so technically it's a 7-seater. Lots of trunk space front and rear.

This sums it up pretty much

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

 

[nmjoff]

Electric sounds great but the batteries are toxic "shite" and cost $4000 + they need to sort that problem out before they become mainstream vehicles...

 

[johnsmit]

There is one thing I found difficult to get use to ..It is the silence
other then the air rushing by .there is very little feed back on how fast you are going .
Yes there is the speedo. .and when in traffic .you just go with the flow..But a lone on the road..you don't have the engine noise or shifting to give your senses .input.. I tended to go below the speed limit when first driving an electric car.

 

[Sir_frixalot]

The big (4 door) tesla is sooooooo fast... I had a ride ...
0-60 in 4 seconds
A gas engine car that can do that shakes and violently launches you,
the Tesla is perfectly quiet!

 

[westwoody]

Yeah electric cars are instant on, loads of torque!

 

[overdone]

Frankly your friend is an ASSHOLE and typical of most greenies.

you mean like BC and their coal shipments to China

but no pipelines :eyebrows:

that would be bad for the environment

 

[screwtape1963]

i think hybrids are ideal for taxis, and pure electric are ideal for delivery cars that have all night/day to recharge

but for the average family, in general, the savings are unlikely to equal or exceed the additional capital and maintenance costs

in terms of the environmental balance, all the ins and outs of toxicities and resources used and the costs of mining can be so complex as to be almost unsolveable. but i find that a good thorough economic analysis will pretty much automatically take environmental factors into account, and give you proper environmental balance as well

that last is definitely a generalization, as cheaper doesn't always equal more environmentally balanced, but in most cases it does. an example is that if something costs significantly more to build and maintain, then significantly more resources are going into it, and significantly more environmental effect is being incurred. simplistic yes, but lay person's such as ourselves can't be expected to unravel the many layers of environmental factors - many of which are actually unknowns or wild-assed guesses at this time

One interesting place that electric vehicles have started being used a lot here is in the potash mining industry - for transportation of materials and personnel down inside the mine. Until now, the various sizes of vehicles used in the mines were mainly diesel, but they are now being replaced by a complete range of electric trucks developed by a local company. The big saving for the companies will apparently be that they can use a lot more vehicles at one time to boost productivity because of the reduced load on the in-mine ventilating systems...

 

[hornygandalf]

you mean like BC and their coal shipments to China

but no pipelines :eyebrows:

that would be bad for the environment

There are a large number of people also against the coal shipments in BC. And if anything, those are more likely to cause health problems in the local population.
And considerable overlap between the two. The pipelines have simply got more press coverage than the coal.