Asian Fever

Private Conversations Will be Recorded in Canada's Airports

violetblake

New member
Jul 24, 2011
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This is extremely concerning. I'm obviously for practical safety precautions, but there is a point where we must decide when it's just not worth it. Recording private conversations that would not even stop a terrorist attack, and could potentially be used against innocent people is a major issue.

Private conversations will be recorded in Canada's airports

18/06/2012 8:30:00 AM

by Nevil Hunt

If lineups, searches and shoe removal don't deter you from flying, a new plan to record private conversations in Canadian airports might keep you on the ground.

The walls will soon have ears in Canada's airports.

Microphones that can hear people talking to each other are going to be installed at airports and at border crossing points.

According to a news report, some border points and airport areas are already wired to capture audio but recording hasn't started yet. Before the microphones are turned on, signs will be posted to alert the public and a privacy impact assessment must also be completed.

The reasons given for the recording equipment include "border integrity," a catch-all phrase that could mean just about anything.

Canadians pay a price when we give up an element of our privacy. Last year, when the federal government announced changes to the way Internet data would be acquired by law enforcement, the public expressed strong enough disapproval that the Conservatives decided to rethink the idea.

When we give up privacy, there has to be a good reason. The payoff has to outweigh what we are surrendering.

Recording the conversations of other people is illegal in Canada unless a judge has signed off on a warrant to collect information. It's those kinds of checks and balances that were missing from the Tories' Internet plans.

To record any or all conversations in a public place is a major step. What benefits can we expect if we sign off and give away that level of privacy?

If such an intrusion could prevent a terrorist attack, most Canadians would likely be willing to allow the recording of conversations in airports or at border checkpoints.

But if you think about past terror attacks on airplanes, monitoring conversations in an airport would have been next to useless.

The 9/11 terrorists wouldn't have sat around the airport waiting lounge chatting about their plans. The would-be Shoe Bomber and Underwear Bomber acted alone, so there would have been no airport conversation to overhear.

On top of those facts, consider that the only way an airplane terror attack could be thwarted using details from airport microphones is if terrorists had a chat in the lounge while someone in law enforcement was listening in real time, able to act before the attack took place.

Now Big Brother may be a scary concept and may be able to record a lot of conversations – through the public airwaves, on telephone wires and even in airports – but Big Brother is not big enough to have officers listening to every conversation. Recording equipment and sifting technology are needed to help reduce masses of recordings down to a number that security folks can actually listen to at a later time.

So if our conversations at the airport at to be recorded, and that information will only be checked out long after flights have departed, how are we safer from terrorism? Answer: we're not.

It's a good bet that the "border integrity" mentioned to justify airport microphones doesn't mean safety from terrorism at all.

What the microphones will provide is a way to track conversations that could lead to the arrest of smugglers and organized crime groups operating in airports and Canadian ports.

And those crimes – unwanted as they may be – are effectively property crimes, a very poor reason for every Canadian to give up privacy whenever they step into an airport.

Do you want your private conversations recorded at airports and border crossings?
http://news.sympatico.ca/oped/coffe...will_be_recorded_in_canadas_airports/c5716e2e
 

newatit

Member
Jan 31, 2011
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yes this is pretty scary. Consider some of the people that I have met in airports and the things we have talked about, no, would not want that around to haunt me the rest of my life. People who are up to no good are not likely to be talking about it in an airport anyway, too many ears, never mind microphones. It will be like the gun registry, the bad guys never registered anyway, and they had exactly the guns they wanted.
 

Trus'Me

New member
Jul 14, 2011
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I'm pretty sure there's some bad guys applying, and already working, as customs officials.

Besides that, do you want some 22 year old bully with a badge interpreting your harmless conversation as suspected code for 'terrorist activity'? Stay tuned, this is going to get ugly.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,491
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on yer ignore list
hey, they can hire ex-corporal what-the-fuck's-his-name, the guy with the taser, to do follow-up on the taped conversations
 

DavidMR

New member
Mar 27, 2009
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The Govt, perhaps feeling some heat after the internet bill, is delaying the activation of these systems until the Privacy Commissioner has completed a review.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...nversations-at-airports-and-border-crossings/


I agree that there needs to be a balance between the privacy given up and the benefit to society. However, it would be practically impossible to measure either the privacy cost or the security benefit in a way that would meet the approval of all interested parties. Career civil libertarians in particular simply will not accept that any projected benefit, which is speculative since it pertains to events that haven`t happened yet, is a credible case for any reduction in privacy. At some point, the Government makes a judgement call based on their perception of cost versus reward.

As to who this particular government is hoping to listen in on, maybe it`s neither terrorists nor criminals. Maybe it`s people in public sector unions, a group not well liked by this administration and actually quite actively disliked by many https://perb.cc commenters! Jean-Pierre Fortin of the PSAC component at Ottawa airport says the first his people learned of this system was when the media started to inquire. Normally a change in workplace conditions like this should be notified to employee organizations in a regularly scheduled union-management consultation meeting.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/O...d+travellers+conversations/6788759/story.html
 

Sonny

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2004
3,734
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Slippery slope to big brother authoritarianism. Harper's Conservatives have strangled access to public information, gagged federal scientists on many issues, refused to answer bonafide questions of high interest to the Canadian public, written snooping legislation bills to monitor our activities on-line without judicial process, misrepresented the costs of jet fighters, engaged us in costly wars that have had little Canadian public support, and so on ad infinitum. Why should it surpise anyone that they want to see and listen to whatever happens in airports? And what other areas are to follow? I consider our present governing party to be dangerously pathologically addicted to control and to actualizing its real agenda, alway hidden from the public, to reshape Canadian society. Who's your Daddy?
 

Tugela

New member
Oct 26, 2010
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Well, if you aren't discussing the best place to put a bomb, you have nothing to worry about. Do you really think anyone will care about the mundane trivialities of your life?
 

violetblake

New member
Jul 24, 2011
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Downtown Vancouver
Well, if you aren't discussing the best place to put a bomb, you have nothing to worry about. Do you really think anyone will care about the mundane trivialities of your life?
The point is, you don't want to give the government or the police that kind of power. Once you do that, they can do anything they want. If they can take something you say and use it against you (even if you're totally innocent), eventually that'll happen to at least one person. And that's one too many. I'm not by any stretch a conspiracy theorist or a paranoid person, but I enjoy personal privacy and freedom, as we all do. And it's nipping these things in the bud that stop us from ending up with the equivalent of Big Brother. If we become complacent, saying "Oh, nothing bad will come of this", that's how governments begin to control you. If you look at any dictatorship in the past that's how these things started. I'm not saying that's where we're headed, but if we start letting our rights be taken away bit by bit, then we open ourselves up to that possibility.
 
L

Larry Storch

The only rights and freedoms we have are the ones that those in power let us have. They can be revoked at a moments notice. Canadian citizens were placed into internment camps during WW2. Look at the reaction to some of the G8 and G20 protests. You can see vids on Youtube about RCMP brutality and peoples rights being trampled on. Seriously, do you think that if the police were worried about being charged or losing their jobs they would be doing any of this? Yes, I know this may sound a bit paranoid, but the truth is the government can impose any sanctions on the citizens they feel is warranted and we have virtually no recourse.

G8/G20 Communiqué: New powers of arrest for police.
 

Sonny

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2004
3,734
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The only rights and freedoms we have are the ones that those in power let us have. They can be revoked at a moments notice.
Canada has the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in its Constitution, with many thanks to Trudeau and Chretien, no matter how you feel politically about them.
The courts are the protectors of the Constitution. If it is to be changed, the amending formula is pretty stiff to get to.
However, there are so many ways through regulation and through legislation that skirts the border of the Constitution that fascist police state lovers can use to manipulate and control.
We are a free people and must be viligant against the loss of freedom. Look at what is happening in the USA, no matter what president happens to be in power.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,491
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on yer ignore list
it never fails to amuse me how normally smart thinking people react to the conservative game. when the tories see their support numbers declining they ALWAYS do the same thing - trot out some patently ridiculous right wing idea, then retract it about 3 days later

the right wingers say, 'dang that was a good idea - too bad that dang trudeau/liberal constitution won't allow it!' thereby reinforcing the conservative support base

the left wingers cry out, 'oh no, here's that untrustworthy harper, up to his hidden agenda again,' as they guzzle down yet another bottle of white wine while they write meaningless drivel on internet blogs. and that's all they do because they are just too cool to do something as low class as actually organize themselves and vote

the radicals collect more pay from their keepers, put on their balaclavas and get out and wave banners and break windows - maybe torch a planned sacrificial car or two. thereby further cementing the conservative support base

cynical? you bet!!! :nod:

but somebody else said it much better than i - see if you can find yourself in his words...

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

William Shakespeare - As You Like It: Act II Scene VII
 

lenny

girls just wanna have fu
May 20, 2004
4,101
76
48
your GF's panties
What did you think was going to happen when harper signed the deal to let us feds into canada?
Do USA airports have devices in the bathroom toilet stalls & urinals to record private conversations?

What's really needed is mind reading via brain implants in every citizen.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,136
44
48
Montréal
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin



This is a super interesting lecture by Glenn Greenwald - You should really watch it :) :





Everything he writes is great as well:
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/


And this Canadian website started by Maher Arar:
http://prism-magazine.com/


Jeremy Scahill is also really good:
http://www.thenation.com/authors/jeremy-scahill/
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/30-2
 

InnocentBoy

Banned
Mar 5, 2006
846
5
18
Why the hell do they need all that crap when they can just get paid with your tax dollars to grab your privates?
Do USA airports have devices in the bathroom toilet stalls & urinals to record private conversations?

What's really needed is mind reading via brain implants in every citizen.
 

InnocentBoy

Banned
Mar 5, 2006
846
5
18
If you trade freedom for security then you deserve neither but what good is that without the right to bear arms like the us ?
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin



This is a super interesting lecture by Glenn Greenwald - You should really watch it :) :





Everything he writes is great as well:
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/


And this Canadian website started by Maher Arar:
http://prism-magazine.com/


Jeremy Scahill is also really good:
http://www.thenation.com/authors/jeremy-scahill/
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/30-2
 
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