Police around Fox Den

[derivative]

Hi guys,

I was driving on the way to Metrotown and I noticed a lot of police around the Fox Den area on Sussex Ave at 2:30pm today. They pulled over a Mazda 3. And a cop car was chilling in the parking lot :S. Just giving all of you a heads up. Do police always frequent around the Fox Den to arrest people?

 

[Popoff]

I believe their clients

 

[westcoast555]

I believe their clients

Never heard of the Den being raided. Has that happened before?

 

[WreckBeach]

Never heard of the Den being raided. Has that happened before?

Not to my knowledge. I do occasionally see law enforcement in the area when I leave but they leave me to go about my business lol.

 

[shyboy123]

I've seen a few girls that have worked there and they prefer outcalls because occasionally LE comes and wants to see everyone 's ID and to make sure the girls are not fully nude. Must be some licensing BS they should go somewhere else and go after some actual criminals. No idea how often that happens, probably not very much.

 

[deathreborn]

yes they hang around inside sometimes and do the id checks and ask why you're there. had it happen to me last spring. went in on a saturday for a 10:00pm appt and had to wait a couple minutes and then the front desk girl just said come in not even asking who i was there to see. anyways as i get in and am walking down the hall to the desk, two burnaby rcmp pigs coming walking up. ask for i.d., wrote down my info, asked why i was there. told them for a massage. told them i wasn't sticking around with them hanging out there. was pissed more because i talked to the girl who i was supposed to see afterwards. she had been called in just to see me and she said the cops were giving the girls a real hard time in the back wanting home phone numbers and other personal info, they had no business knowing. just another reason why i have no use for the police.

 

[WreckBeach]

yes they hang around inside sometimes and do the id checks and ask why you're there. had it happen to me last spring. went in on a saturday for a 10:00pm appt and had to wait a couple minutes and then the front desk girl just said come in not even asking who i was there to see. anyways as i get in and am walking down the hall to the desk, two burnaby rcmp pigs coming walking up. ask for i.d., wrote down my info, asked why i was there. told them for a massage. told them i wasn't sticking around with them hanging out there. was pissed more because i talked to the girl who i was supposed to see afterwards. she had been called in just to see me and she said the cops were giving the girls a real hard time in the back wanting home phone numbers and other personal info, they had no business knowing. just another reason why i have no use for the police.

I don't know much about the law, if rcmp stop and question you but you're not under arrest or anything you can decline to talk to them right? How much information do you have to give them? Because if I run into cops I'd rather not talk to them lol...

 

[Vito]

Foxes Den? I've heard alot about this place. What is it, is it any good, and what is the price range? U can PM me if u like. Thanks.

 

[Pantherdash]

I don't know much about the law, if rcmp stop and question you but you're not under arrest or anything you can decline to talk to them right? How much information do you have to give them? Because if I run into cops I'd rather not talk to them lol...

No, you don't have to talk to them. They WILL give you a hard time and make it seem as if you NEED to talk to them, but really you don't. Stick to your guns and say you're only there for a massage and fuck all the rest of the shite they tell you. If the place requires you to present ID, well sorry place but you didn't ask me and I don't carry it with me. These guys getting info from you want to create a file on your name so they can refer to it in future. DON'T give it to them, because if you do you are now "known to the police." Best thing, don't carry your ID with you and park your car a short walk from the place.

If you create a block between your personal ID and the police, they have nothing on you. It's not a common bawdy house, for if it was they wouldn't have allowed it to be licensed now would they?

Cops are experts at sourcing info from you that you don't want to give up. So...don't give it to them.

Panther

 

[Luvda_silicone_crinkle]

How do these places stay in business... do they pay off the police or high burnaby politicians? I remember a few years back all the rub n tugs in coquitlam got busted on the same day.

 

[westcoast555]

No, you don't have to talk to them. They WILL give you a hard time and make it seem as if you NEED to talk to them, but really you don't. Stick to your guns and say you're only there for a massage and fuck all the rest of the shite they tell you. If the place requires you to present ID, well sorry place but you didn't ask me and I don't carry it with me. These guys getting info from you want to create a file on your name so they can refer to it in future. DON'T give it to them, because if you do you are now "known to the police." Best thing, don't carry your ID with you and park your car a short walk from the place.

If you create a block between your personal ID and the police, they have nothing on you. It's not a common bawdy house, for if it was they wouldn't have allowed it to be licensed now would they?

Cops are experts at sourcing info from you that you don't want to give up. So...don't give it to them.

Panther

I know this comes up occasionally and there's been other threads on this.. but if they ask you for your and your ID.. you're legally entitled to decline to give it or show it correct? Is the correct response to politely but firmly inform them that you are aware of your rights, you're not committing any crime and unless they have reason to detain you you're going to decline to give them information and leave?

There's some legal eagles on here. Am I correct that you don't have to tell them who you are or give them your ID if you're not being detained on anything and not being charged?

Good to know these things in advance.

 

[shyboy123]

I'd like to know as well. I thought you were legally required to produce ID anywhere in public or business establishment by LE, and failure to do so can give them the discretionary right to detain you and/or take you to the station to further determine if you are at large etc. So the best thing was to let them put it in their little notebook and hope it never gets onto an actual police report and you are not on record so to speak.

 

[westcoast555]

I'd like to know as well. I thought you were legally required to produce ID anywhere in public or business establishment by LE, and failure to do so can give them the discretionary right to detain you and/or take you to the station to further determine if you are at large etc. So the best thing was to let them put it in their little notebook and hope it never gets onto an actual police report and you are not on record so to speak.

I just looked it up.. and if you're in a car you have to give them your ID which makes sense... but if you're not being detained on suspicion of anything I believe you're allowed to decline, confirm that you're not under arrest or detention, and ask if you're free to go. Be nice for somebody to confirm this - especially somebody who may have actually been in this situation.

Thanks

 

[westcoastjoe]

Alinburnaby, please chime in here.
I'd like to know the correct answer as well.
I spoke once to the cops on something. Should have kept my mouth shut.
They lied to me... I found out later.
Hard lesson learned.

 

[Robert Upndown]

According to the "Arrest Handbook"
Published by the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association
Identifying Yourself
Sometimes, even though you don’t have to, it’s a good idea to
give the police your name and address. Use your common sense.
Most of the time, according to the law, you do not have to give
the police any information.
You only have to give police your name and address if:
1. you are under arrest;
2. you are driving a car. Passengers in the car do not have
to give the police their names or addresses; or
3. a police officer is giving you a ticket (for breaking a city
bylaw or any other law) or serving you an
appearance notice.

 

[blackcad]

No...you do not need to give them ID or talk with them. If they have reasonable grounds to believe that you are committing, have committed, will commit a criminal offence, then they can arrest and detain you, and continue to detain you until they satisfy themselves of your identity. The Charter prevents unreasonable detention and does not allow police to arbitrarily search/seize, nor does it enable police "powers" to establish your ID. You've simply walked into a legal business for a massage....nothing there would give police any right to your identity. If the cop didn't know the law and tried to force the issue, and you continued to refuse to provide your identity, they might arrest you illegally and then you would have a strong case against them later.

 

[westcoast555]

Thanks for the info an clarification everyone. This is what makes this site useful - not all the petty feuds that seem to pop up all the time!

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

I just looked it up.. and if you're in a car you have to give them your ID which makes sense... but if you're not being detained on suspicion of anything I believe you're allowed to decline, confirm that you're not under arrest or detention, and ask if you're free to go. Be nice for somebody to confirm this - especially somebody who may have actually been in this situation.

Thanks

Only if you're driving, not as a passenger.

The only place that you are required to show ID is inside an establishment that serves alcohol. Otherwise firmly and politely tell them you know your rights, ask them if you are under arrest because if you are you would like your charter rights read to you and that you will not be saying a word until you've had a chance to talk to your lawyer. You are not required to show or carry identification .

 

[westcoast555]

Only if you're driving, not as a passenger.

The only place that you are required to show ID is inside an establishment that serves alcohol. Otherwise firmly and politely tell them you know your rights, ask them if you are under arrest because if you are you would like your charter rights read to you and that you will not be saying a word until you've had a chance to talk to your lawyer. You are not required to show or carry identification .

Cool... thanks for clarifying. Being the driver or in a bar makes sense that you would have to produce ID. Maybe I should carry a copy of the charter around in my pocket and ask him if them if they want me to read it to them

Thanks for all the advice people.. have fun out there. Forewarned is forewarned. And take advantage of the rights we have under the Charter.. we fucking paid for them.

 

[WreckBeach]

Thanks guys, this makes me feel a lot more reassured. You guys are fucking awesome.