Well, you see "government", I see the hand of the business/corporate world (which dominates government and media agenda, and steers everything towards decisions the people never actually consented to).
Petition to Decriminalize Sexwork in Canada
- Thread starter sensualsixty
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Well, you see "government", I see the hand of the business/corporate world (which dominates government and media agenda, and steers everything towards decisions the people never actually consented to).
I would very much like to believe that this is true for all of BC, as it would help to ease my paranoia when seeing anyone outside of Vancouver's city limits. I know that the Vancouver Police Department made it clear that this is not an enforcement priority for them, and I am not aware of any similar policy statement from the RCMP in BC. Is there some other policy statement, to which you could direct me, that would indicate that all of BC law enforcement is now taking a similar position to the VPD? The BC Prosecution Service put out a media statement in 2018 that indicated their intent to prosecute buyers of sex, and I am not aware of any reversal of that.
I have not linked to the VPD or BC Prosecution Service statments I mentioned, because I'm not sure what the rules are here about linking to government websites.
BC Police Chiefs Association Sex work Enforcement Guidelines
So, this is the Provincial Guidelines...
It is not as explicit as the VPD guidelines but are based on that document. It states "lowets-level-of-enforcement.....
Which is to say, all police including the RCMP agree that exploitation of youth or any person should be the priority - we all agree with that
and that violence aganst sex workers should be a priority for investigation - inclusing theft, assault, stealthing, filming without permission....
I will say that there are still serious problems on the investigating violence side....not so much in the City but in other places...
Anyway, if you go and visit an adult consensual provider and are polite and non violent.... you have nothing to worry about anywhere in BC.
love susie
Okie dokie then.....holy moly.... i will try to be gentle....
addicts don't "want to over dose"....they are being killed by poisoned drugs...
No one is allowed to sell hard drugs...that is not what decriminalization means... it means an individual drug user can have up to 2.5 grams of drugs and not be arrested
I would not call Canadian Army Vetrans "pathetic" nor would i call residential school survivors "pathetic".....
Those who have gone to war and survived are heros.... those who have survived the on going genocide of first nations people are warriors...
drugs are a way for them cope, drug use is a symptom of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder....it is not "pathetic"....
And to say we should just let them die? well....that's nice for a vetran to hear.... or how about someone whose entire family have been wiped off the face of the earth during our ongoing slaughter and destruction of first nations families and communities....
Peopl don't become addicted and then have "fun" at societies expense...it isn't fun.....
This isn't "wokeness" .... this is a pragmatic response to a health issue.... this is the result of decades of prohibition and total neglect by all governments.... this is all of our faults as we were the ones who said "cut programs" don't spend money of treatment spaces... we are responsible
It is so unbelievably selfish for people to feel we can just let them die.... as if drug users lives are nothing, worthless, disposable...what is this 1939?
drug users are all around us... not just in the DTES...the most overdoses are happening in the North....what does that tell you?
It tells me that the problem as framed by Canada Proud, BC Proud...which ever far right group you want to name.... is a lie.....
this is not caused by "wokeness"....
This is caused by generations of slaughter, war, genocide, fear mongering....
what did people think would happen?
C'mon people....think before posting this kind of hateful shiiiite.....there are people here whose children maybe caught up in it now...could be missing, maybe have died...show a little compassion for your fellow citizens and stop listening to the fundraising propogansists on the right....
love susie
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we had legalization before...there were 3 serial killers in Vancouver alone during Legalization never mind the rest of Canada.....
we want decriminalization like new zealand - it is still illegal for Youth to be sex workers under decrim, it is still illegal to assault people under decrim, human trafficking is still illegal under decrim....
So, we want to be treated as a profession...labor law, workers rights, OHS, pensions, health benefits and all the other things Canadian workers take for granted.
There will still be business licensing, development permits, inspections, health regulations and alot of other things.....but we will not be subjected to police enforcement nor will our clients or employers.....
Dosed that make sense?
love susie
Over 20,000 signatures now.
Thanks for all the info Susi and Hi.
And one of the details where you find the devil, It is a criminal offence for anyone to knowingly receive any benefit from the provision of sexual services. This includes sex workers who are exempt from prosecution but not the criminal offence of receiving a benefit. Only third parties giving fair value in return are exempt from the law. This distinction will be important when Harper's law is challenged in court.
Thanks for all the info Susi and Hi.
And one of the details where you find the devil, It is a criminal offence for anyone to knowingly receive any benefit from the provision of sexual services. This includes sex workers who are exempt from prosecution but not the criminal offence of receiving a benefit. Only third parties giving fair value in return are exempt from the law. This distinction will be important when Harper's law is challenged in court.
agreed, have you been watching the case? the arguments were heard in Ont Superior Court and we should have a decision in late spring....then next stop, SPOC!!!! again....sigh
love susie
Legalization should be the goal, less than that, you don't solve the other issues pimping/trafficking/health/etc.
That's how it's done in a few European countries where it's legal too.
It's regulated but not government-run.
First of all, it wasn't "legalization" - it was the Supreme Court that said the old laws were unconstitutional and gave the Feds about a year to come up with a solution. Legalization would be like what we have for pot - not a perfect system, but hasn't made it worse either.
Suggesting that the Supreme Court ruling was responsible for "3 serial killers in Vancouver" is ridiculous.
As far as making testing mandatory, we just did that with COVID and it seemed to work out fine for the most part.
Yes, BC has some funny priorities - you'd think legalizing the worlds oldest profession would come before helping people get better access to meth
I just got back from Germany a few weeks ago where the German government and the local government in Hamburg are working together to make sex work safer for the women in the business. It's very out in the open there. Wish it were the same here.
I signed the petition. And I publicized my name and email because I'm done with men hiding in the fact that we support sex workers.
I signed the petition. And I publicized my name and email because I'm done with men hiding in the fact that we support sex workers.
You are correct.
Many countries have it figured out well, like Germany.
Heck even some US states have been doing pretty well at allowing it all to just be transparent, and leave people alone.
Then other states are all nazi about it.
My favorite city is Moscow, nobody cares except maybe a few jealous guys who wish they were you.
Meet a lady at a coffee shop for a free get to know her coffee date, and if she seems like a good person, take her to your hotel for the best SP session you could ever dream up.
That is a common theme there. They are not greedy, clock watchers, or have loads of restrictions, and don't upsell. The agreed upon price is everything goes, and no head games or bullshit.
If you are feeling generous and offer to buy her lunch or dinner after, they usually accept gladly, and appreciate your generosity. They don't say oh well pay me for my eating time to, no they love spending time with a gentleman, and are glad for you picking up the restaurant bill.
I've pooned in many countries, many cities, and Moscow, St. Petersburg, Bucharest Romania, Vienna Austria, and a few cities in Germany are still at the top of my list, although Mexico is also great.
Thank you for calling my perspective "ridiculous" - BC has defacto decrim of sex work - a hard fought for victory - sex workers have not been arrested here for decades unless for murder for example and she was not actually a sex worker, she was a thief.
It was "legalization", sex work was legal. I guess you feel your knowledge on this issue is more in depth than mine, I have only put 20 years into this so i defer to you... how long have you worked in law? as a lawyer? in the sex worker rights movement?
I did not suggest the "Supreme Court " are responsible for 3 serial murderers in Vancouver - I stated that the NIMBY based prostitution laws of the past created an environment where that happened.Enforcement and lack of trust in police combined with no one believing people when they reported sex workers missing....lead to three serial killers operating in our city. The conservative laws from Harper and his cronies are no better, lucky for us the VPD are reasonable and do not enforce those laws.
Decrim lead to 12 years wth no murders of sex workers as a result of their jobs here.
We are in court again now and unfortunately it looks like we will bring down the laws.... again.... just in time for another conservative jackass to pander to the evangelical vote and re criminalize us.....again....
Frankly I thought all of this was fairly common knowledge here, I have posted about my experiences with "that animal" and our fight for rights hundreds of times through the years.
But yes, thanks for calling me ridiculous, I will try to remember that the next time I am defending sex buyers safety and fighting to prevent enforcement against you.
Susie
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and as far as testing...? sure let's make testing of clients mandatory. We could work to get all providers on board and you will be required to present your no more than 24 hours old test before recieiving service.
It will contain your real name, health number and other personal information that I am sure you will be happy to share with an SP.
After all, it is the client who presents the risk, not the provider.
Talk about ridiculous.
Susie
It will contain your real name, health number and other personal information that I am sure you will be happy to share with an SP.
After all, it is the client who presents the risk, not the provider.
Talk about ridiculous.
Susie
You are correct.
Many countries have it figured out well, like Germany.
Heck even some US states have been doing pretty well at allowing it all to just be transparent, and leave people alone.
Then other states are all nazi about it.
My favorite city is Moscow, nobody cares except maybe a few jealous guys who wish they were you.
Meet a lady at a coffee shop for a free get to know her coffee date, and if she seems like a good person, take her to your hotel for the best SP session you could ever dream up.
That is a common theme there. They are not greedy, clock watchers, or have loads of restrictions, and don't upsell. The agreed upon price is everything goes, and no head games or bullshit.
If you are feeling generous and offer to buy her lunch or dinner after, they usually accept gladly, and appreciate your generosity. They don't say oh well pay me for my eating time to, no they love spending time with a gentleman, and are glad for you picking up the restaurant bill.
I've pooned in many countries, many cities, and Moscow, St. Petersburg, Bucharest Romania, Vienna Austria, and a few cities in Germany are still at the top of my list, although Mexico is also great.
Ummmm
You read his post, a lot differently than I read it.
He wasn't calling you ridiculous.
But saying that legalizing sex work should be done, INSTEAD of making it easier for drug addicts to get drugs.
Maybe read it again.
Wow!
I was a big fan of yours, and still 100% for legalizing the profession, but your reading comprehension, and anger management need some work.
When people are being supportive, try saying 'Thank you very much '...not attacking them for being kind, and supportive.
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We do not want legalization.... it's what we had before..... we want decriminaliztion.... not sure what part of that is not clear. He did call me ridiculous. And for all the work i do on this issue, i didn't appreciate it.
There was nothing "angry" in my post and there was nothing kind or supportive about his dismissal of my explaination of what is happening in Canada.
here' what he said;
First of all, it wasn't "legalization" - it was the Supreme Court that said the old laws were unconstitutional and gave the Feds about a year to come up with a solution. Legalization would be like what we have for pot - not a perfect system, but hasn't made it worse either.
I gave evidence in the case, worked with Osgood law school for 6 years in the lead up to the final decision in the SPOC. It WAS legalization - which implies there are still criminal code provisions related to sex work. Legalization was struck down as unconstitutional. Legalization makes sex work remain in the criminal code and remain treated as criminal activity...it places sex workers at odds with police and other systems which are supposed to protect us.... we need protection of labor law, OHS, labor standards.... not to be treated as criminals who are outside of society and not deserving of the same rights as other workers.....
Suggesting that the Supreme Court ruling was responsible for "3 serial killers in Vancouver" is ridiculous.
Here is where he called me ridiculous claiming i stated that the SPOC were responsible for 3 serial killers in Vancouver... I did not. I stated that the previous legal regime of "Legalization" had created an environment where 3 serial kilers had been able to operate, thus the reason...... we don't want legalization, we want decrim...like new zealand.
My reading skills are just fine thank you very much,
thank you for your support and kindness
Susie
There was nothing "angry" in my post and there was nothing kind or supportive about his dismissal of my explaination of what is happening in Canada.
here' what he said;
First of all, it wasn't "legalization" - it was the Supreme Court that said the old laws were unconstitutional and gave the Feds about a year to come up with a solution. Legalization would be like what we have for pot - not a perfect system, but hasn't made it worse either.
I gave evidence in the case, worked with Osgood law school for 6 years in the lead up to the final decision in the SPOC. It WAS legalization - which implies there are still criminal code provisions related to sex work. Legalization was struck down as unconstitutional. Legalization makes sex work remain in the criminal code and remain treated as criminal activity...it places sex workers at odds with police and other systems which are supposed to protect us.... we need protection of labor law, OHS, labor standards.... not to be treated as criminals who are outside of society and not deserving of the same rights as other workers.....
Suggesting that the Supreme Court ruling was responsible for "3 serial killers in Vancouver" is ridiculous.
Here is where he called me ridiculous claiming i stated that the SPOC were responsible for 3 serial killers in Vancouver... I did not. I stated that the previous legal regime of "Legalization" had created an environment where 3 serial kilers had been able to operate, thus the reason...... we don't want legalization, we want decrim...like new zealand.
My reading skills are just fine thank you very much,
thank you for your support and kindness
Susie
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