PERB election poll

[Crookedmember]

At any rate, I'm sure Erin O'Toole would balance the federal budget the same way Ford and Kenney are balancing the Ontario and Alberta budgets.

The simple truth is no Conservative government has balanced a budget in half a century.

 

[Crookedmember]

LOL! Taking out copious amounts of debt just because interest rates are low doesn't mean you get to roll over that debt at the equally low interest rate. Seriously mate, are you that obtuse? Do you truly believe that any number of the multiple series of Canadian bonds that may be maturing in the next 3 or 4 or 5 years get the benefit of TODAY'S LOW INTEREST RATES? Caleb Reimer

Don't worry, man. We do get to roll over that $610 billion Mulroney and Harper ran up at much, much lower rates, so it all evens out.

And thankfully the Americans get to roll over the the massive debt Reagan and two Bushes ran up at much lower rates.

Jeepers, the dumb end of the political spectrum that feigns so much concern about debt, sure runs up a shitload of it.

 

[appleomac]

Don't worry, man. We do get to roll over that $610 billion Mulroney and Harper ran up at much, much lower rates, so it all evens out.

And thankfully the Americans get to roll over the the massive debt Reagan and two Bushes ran up at much lower rates.

Jeepers, the dumb end of the political spectrum that feigns so much concern about debt, sure runs up a shitload of it.

If the actual debt is not being paid down, how does it all even out? LOL - you seriously believe the Party that incurs the copious amounts of debt determines if the debt is "good" or "bad"? If it is isn't being repaid nor if there is a plan to repay it - that's what is "BAD." Sorry mate, you are the "dumb end of the political spectrum" if you think that "this person" not paying debt is "good" and "that person" not paying debt is "bad". Not paying debt is equally bad (or undertaking continuous debt without any plans to repay it) regardless of the person doing it!

 

[Crookedmember]

If the actual debt is not being paid down, how does it all even out? LOL - you seriously believe the Party that incurs the copious amounts of debt determines if the debt is "good" or "bad"? If it is isn't being repaid nor if there is a plan to repay it - that's what is "BAD." Sorry mate, you are the "dumb end of the political spectrum" if you think that "this person" not paying debt is "good" and "that person" not paying debt is "bad". Not paying debt is equally bad (or undertaking continuous debt without any plans to repay it) regardless of the person doing it!

Every nation and corporation on Earth uses debt for leverage. That money flows into the economy and creates jobs and grows the GDP. The country has been in debt since WW 1.

Your side of the spectrum would have a lot more credibility if you actually practiced what you preach. Conservative governments in Canada and the US have dismal records when it comes to deficits. Do you think all of the spending and tax cuts O'Toole is promising will somehow pay for itself?

One day climate change or war will end this world and erase all of the debt with it. Worry about something that matters. Not some bullshit the CPC uses at election time to rile the sheep.

 

[appleomac]

Every nation and corporation on Earth uses debt for leverage. That money flows into the economy and creates jobs and grows the GDP. The country has been in debt since WW 1.

Your side of the spectrum would have a lot more credibility if you actually practiced what you preach. Conservative governments in Canada and the US have dismal records when it comes to deficits. Do you think all of the spending and tax cuts O'Toole is promising will somehow pay for itself?

One day climate change or war will end this world and erase all of the debt with it. Worry about something that matters. Not some bullshit the CPC uses at election time to rile the sheep.

LOL! And when a non-governments entity takes out debt, they have a plan to repay it - the same can't be said about various governments (regardless of political stripe). If you truly believe the world is going to end, hell, you are basically saying "we don't have to pay it back" - hell, why not just stop paying the interest on the debt NOW as well; surely you must believe the billions in interest payments can be "better used than paying that inconvenient interest payments", right? Better yet, since we will never have to pay it back (due to the end of the world), why not take out EVEN MORE NOW? Better still, convince all your friends/family/neighbours to stop paying their mortgages/car payments/student loans/credit cards/etc. because none of them will have to pay any of it back (what with the world ending soon and all). LOL Sorry mate, (using your own words) you are demonstrating again that you are the "dumb end of the political spectrum."

 

[Crookedmember]

LOL! And when a non-governments entity takes out debt, they have a plan to repay it - the same can't be said about various governments (regardless of political stripe). If you truly believe the world is going to end, hell, you are basically saying "we don't have to pay it back" - hell, why not just stop paying the interest on the debt NOW as well; surely you must believe the billions in interest payments can be "better used than paying that inconvenient interest payments", right? Sorry mate, (using your own words) you are demonstrating again that you are the "dumb end of the political spectrum."

If you Conservatives are so worried about government debt, why do you run up so much of it?

 

[appleomac]

If you Conservatives are so worried about government debt, why do you run up so much of it?

They shouldn't run it up. No governments AGAIN, regardless of political stripe should take on debt continuously without any plan to repay it. My belief is not one of political ideology, it's merely common sense. It's having grown up watching governments (both Conservatives and Liberals, at least federally) running up debt for generations, which ultimately forced cuts (not that long ago). Hell, we have seen in recent times (barely a decade has passed) since certain European nations needed to be bailed out because of copious amounts of debt! The blame belongs to everyone - yet you are still focusing on the infantile perspective that "well they've been doing since WW1" or "those Conservatives ran it up too" - SO FRIGGIN WHAT! Doing something that is BAD, simple because "they did it first" or "they did it too" is the mindset of a child - or to modify your own words demonstrates that you are "the dumb end of the human spectrum"!

 

[LLLurkJ2]

I draw comparisons to household debt and government debt because the underlying principle is the same - debt with no plan/will/desire/etc to repay it is ALWAYS BAD. And just because a debt collector will not come after the Government of Canada, doesn't mean copious amounts of debt have NO CONSEQUENCES. If we take on too much debt, Canada's debt rating can be downgraded, which means all new debt (actual new debt and the new debt to refinance old debt) will ALL HAPPEN AT HIGHER RATES OF INTEREST! This is not "orthodoxy" this is just how CREDIT/BORROWING WORKS. Apparently you live in a fanciful make belief world were there are ZERO CONSEQUENCES FOR UNDERTAKING DEBT CONTINUOUSLY simply because it is the Government of Canada is undertaking said debt. DEBT HAS COSTS, even you if fail to understand what those costs are - and those costs are not merely the interest rate you pay on debt!

Hell, I've said it multiple times on this forum - the Government has no business in taking an equity piece (minority stake or buying a company outright) of a corporation. I don't like that Trudeau bought a pipeline, I don't like that Kenny bought a piece of a pipeline and I don't like that Harper purchased a piece of General Motors! LOL

You need to actually study Canada's tax base if you truly believe the top 10% can pay for all the things you want. $98,000 per year (at least based on the most recent StatsCan data that is available); $98k per year in income will put you in the top 10% of income earners in this country! It's comprised of about 2.8 million people with a median income less than $130k. How much more do you want to take from someone making 98K? Should their federal tax rate be 50%? 40%? LOL Let me guess, you actually never have researched what this country's tax base even looks like.

And before you start "amending" your "nuanced Keynesian approach" by saying - "we'll just tax the top 1% more" Maybe take some time to actually research some relevant stats before you start chirping off (yet again) about things you do not have knowledge about! LOL Hell, I'll even help you out

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501&pickMembers[0]=1.1&pickMembers[1]=3.5&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2014&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2018&referencePeriods=20140101,20180101

Hate to break it to you, the lawyer/accountant/engineer/programmer/etc. making $113k per year - did not take anything away from you!

What's that old saying, "no pain, no gain." That usually means PAIN NOW FOR GAIN LATER. You literally want GAIN NOW FOR THE NEXT GENERATION TO SUFFER THE PAIN TO PAY FOR YOUR GAIN NOW!

There are plans to repay it, you just dont like them. And the likelyhood of downgrading is garbage fearmongering, the only way we'd get there is if we descended into fascistic banana republic level; although Alberta is trying hard at this, it wont be enough to take the whole country down.

As for your 10% levels, do your chosen figures include capital gains? The Broffmans made $8B during the pandemic...do you think the paid the same $4B I would have to if earned from income? Supposedly, if the gains were realized , they would pay $2-3B but idoubt thats even the case.

Additionally income doesnt spell the whole story for owners..they get massive tax write-offs. Take your buddy for lunch..tax write off.Buy a car? Tax write off. Travel to a location to watch rime share presentations? Tax write off. The list goes on.

 

[appleomac]

There are plans to repay it, you just dont like them. And the likelyhood of downgrading is garbage fearmongering, the only way we'd get there is if we descended into fascistic banana republic level; although Alberta is trying hard at this, it wont be enough to take the whole country down.

As for your 10% levels, do your chosen figures include capital gains? The Broffmans made $8B during the pandemic...do you think the paid the same $4B I would have to if earned from income? Supposedly, if the gains were realized , they would pay $2-3B but idoubt thats even the case.

Additionally income doesnt spell the whole story for owners..they get massive tax write-offs. Take your buddy for lunch..tax write off.Buy a car? Tax write off. Travel to a location to watch rime share presentations? Tax write off. The list goes on.

Really, there is a plan? So when is the national debt going to be paid off? Is it being paid off in 20, 30, 40 years? I must have missed that press release from the Government of Canada! How much of the national debt is scheduled to be paid down in 2021? Or 2022? or 2023? No mate, there is no plan!

Fear mongering??? One of the credit rating agencies downgraded Canada's credit rating just last year! LOL For all your throwing around how much you "read" about "Keynesian approaches" and throwing around big words, you sure don't keep up with current events do you??? LOL

Clearly you're not going to stop chirping off about things you don't understand - so keep at it mate, keep demonstrating that you don't know anything about the things you think you do!

 

[LLLurkJ2]

Really, there is a plan? So when is the national debt going to be paid off? Is it being paid off in 20, 30, 40 years? I must have missed that press release from the Government of Canada! How much of the national debt is scheduled to be paid down in 2021? Or 2022? or 2023? No mate, there is no plan!

Fear mongering??? One of the credit rating agencies downgraded Canada's credit rating just last year! LOL For all your throwing around how much you "read" about "Keynesian approaches" and throwing around big words, you sure don't keep up with current events do you??? LOL

Clearly you're not going to stop chirping off about things you don't understand - so keep at it mate, keep demonstrating that you don't know anything about the things you think you do!

Really, so the inflationary easing you mentioned in an earlier post is no plan. And besides, what country ON EARTH would pay off their debt in 40 years time, let alone a first world country. You're living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

Which credit agency lowered Canadas rating? Best I can see it was Moody's from AAa to Aaa in 2003.

Albertas was downgraded last year though, and no wonder. Lert stick to austerity in a pandemic, that will work wonders. And blame Notley and BC and Canada for our troubles!

Clearly you've mistaken your jaded opinions to be the absolute truth of things, with no room for any deviations. I'll challange your presumptuous propaganda whenever i see fit to, especially if your first resort is to try character assasination and snyde dismissiveness as a first approximation of defense of your views.

Try telling me i know nothing and shouldn't post anything again, i dont think youll ger the outcome you want. Even if you were an 'expert' your a far biased one with an adgenda...you desreve to be countered at every turn when you post misleading info, lest you blowhards take over the world.

 

[appleomac]

Really, so the inflationary easing you mentioned in an earlier post is no plan. And besides, what country ON EARTH would pay off their debt in 40 years time, let alone a first world country. You're living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

Which credit agency lowered Canadas rating? Best I can see it was Moody's from AAa to Aaa in 2003.

Albertas was downgraded last year though, and no wonder. Lert stick to austerity in a pandemic, that will work wonders. And blame Notley and BC and Canada for our troubles!

Clearly you've mistaken your jaded opinions to be the absolute truth of things, with no room for any deviations. I'll challange your presumptuous propaganda whenever i see fit to, especially if your first resort is to try character assasination and snyde dismissiveness as a first approximation of defense of your views.

Try telling me i know nothing and shouldn't post anything again, i dont think youll ger the outcome you want. Even if you were an 'expert' your a far biased one with an adgenda...you desreve to be countered at every turn when you post misleading info, lest you blowhards take over the world.

What the hell are you talking about "inflationary easing"? If you mean raising rates to cool off inflation and/or decreasing the money supply - NONE OF THAT CHANGES THE AMOUNT OF DEBT. If you have a mortgage, let's say $500k balance owing - whether you get a promotion (i.e. your personal money supply increases) or you get fired (i.e. your personal money supply decreases), THE AMOUNT OWING IS STILL $500K! If you owe $500K and you have a variable rate mortgage and the mortgage rate decreases (or increases) THE BALANCE YOU OWE IS STILL $500k. For the love of gawd, how is that something an adult (clearly I'm assuming you are an adult - which at this point may be suspect) doesn't understand?!?!? LOL

So what is the plan, I'm not saying the national debt HAS to be paid off in any specific amount of time. I'm saying there is no plan to repay. YOU specifically said that there is plan. So again, what is the plan announced by the government of Canada to pay down the debt? I mean, that should be easy to answer if (as you claimed) that there was a plan. If even the plan is pay none of the debt down for the next 5 years and in year 6 they pay X, year 7 they pay another X - that would be, you know, A PLAN. So what is the plan? LOL

And it was Fitch that downgraded Canada's credit rating last summer. Apparently you can't do a Google news search either?

You're right, I don't need to tell you that you don't know anything - you are demonstrating that just fine with all your responses! But what the hell - you really don't seem to know what you're talking about!

And FYI - suggesting a country not take on continuous debt without a plan to repay it - THAT IS NOT AUSTERITY, it's just common sense. It's simply a warning - because if a country cannot stop borrowing continuously and grows their debt near continuously - AUSTERITY IS WHAT WILL BE REQUIRED. But clearly, you can't discern the difference can you? LOL

 

[LLLurkJ2]

What the hell are you talking about "inflationary easing"? If you mean raising rates to cool off inflation and/or decreasing the money supply - NONE OF THAT CHANGES THE AMOUNT OF DEBT. If you have a mortgage, let's say $500k balance owing - whether you get a promotion (i.e. your personal money supply increases) or you get fired (i.e. your personal money supply decreases), THE AMOUNT OWING IS STILL $500K! If you owe $500K and you have a variable rate mortgage and the mortgage rate decreases (or increases) THE BALANCE YOU OWE IS STILL $500k. For the love of gawd, how is that something an adult (clearly I'm assuming you are an adult - which at this point may be suspect) doesn't understand?!?!? LOL

So what is the plan, I'm not saying the national debt HAS to be paid off in any specific amount of time. I'm saying there is no plan to repay. YOU specifically said that there is plan. So again, what is the plan announced by the government of Canada to pay down the debt? I mean, that should be easy to answer if (as you claimed) that there was a plan. If even the plan is pay none of the debt down for the next 5 years and in year 6 they pay X, year 7 they pay another X - that would be, you know, A PLAN. So what is the plan? LOL

And it was Fitch that downgraded Canada's credit rating last summer. Apparently you can't do a Google news search either?

You're right, I don't need to tell you that you don't know anything - you are demonstrating that just fine with all your responses! But what the hell - you really don't seem to know what you're talking about!

And FYI - suggesting a country not take on continuous debt without a plan to repay it - THAT IS NOT AUSTERITY, it's just common sense. It's simply a warning - because if a country cannot stop borrowing continuously and grows their debt near continuously - AUSTERITY IS WHAT WILL BE REQUIRED. But clearly, you can't discern the difference can you? LOL

I missed Fitch, but S&Ps and Moodys didn't budge from AAA and Fitch cited pandemic spending.


Your examples are in constant dollars of course, which a false example, with no recognition of inflationary dollars, which is what ALL ECONOMIC systems worldwidwe use ( so that $500k today is less of my total take tommorrow of my economy grows faster than the interest rate im paying). But an adult would know this and a child might fanatasize on the world working differently than that in black and white terms they could comprehend sufficiently.

 

[appleomac]

I missed Fitch, but S&Ps and Moodys didn't budge from AAA and Fitch cited pandemic spending.


Your examples are in constant dollars of course, which a false example, with no recognition of inflationary dollars, which is what ALL ECONOMIC systems worldwidwe use ( so that $500k today is less of my total take tommorrow of my economy grows faster than the interest rate im paying). But an adult would know this and a child might fanatasize on the world working differently than that in black and white terms they could comprehend sufficiently.

Just stop! I'm actually sad, that your publicly funded education has failed you so much. Yes, go right on thinking that inflation will ensure that debt will take care of itself!

Inflation effects what dollars may or may not be worth over time or in comparison to different times. It does not change what you have to pay for the debt you incurred! And I won't even begin to tell you what the interest rate paid on debt actually covers - hint, part of it is the time value of money (i.e. expected inflation) - true story! LOL But go on mate, live your life under the fallacy that debt is somehow paid down by inflation. You should do that as a personal experiment if you truly believe that. Take out the biggest loan you can, only pay interest, and watch how quickly (or NOT) "inflation" takes care of your outstanding balance! LOL

 

[toda1]

Just stop! I'm actually sad, that your publicly funded education has failed you so much. Yes, go right on thinking that inflation will ensure that debt will take care of itself!

Inflation effects what dollars may or may not be worth over time or in comparison to different times. It does not change what you have to pay for the debt you incurred! And I won't even begin to tell you what the interest rate paid on debt actually covers - hint, part of it is the time value of money (i.e. expected inflation) - true story! LOL But go on mate, live your life under the fallacy that debt is somehow paid down by inflation. You should do that as a personal experiment if you truly believe that. Take out the biggest loan you can, only pay interest, and watch how quickly (or NOT) "inflation" takes care of your outstanding balance! LOL

You are just wasting your time and energy arguing with people like that. It's like people that think MMT is the foolproof solution to everything. Your IQ drops every time you talk to them.

 

[g eazy]

Yes, I think you've identified them well. Here's the thing: disagreeing with them doesn't invalidate their being good points.

Aside from imposing his personal opinion on other people's character based on simple opinions that have no inferences (e.g. debt-to-GDP is a more reliable way of assess fiscal responsibility than debt volume alone), and his inability to argue a point without attacking others (too bad tens of thousands of dollars in degrees don't teach this), he makes some good points that are debatable. Though, he tends to only shit on ideas rather than provide an alternative - which considering the depth of understanding, is extremely disappointing.

Also, numerous times in this thread he's conducted mental gymnastics to assume a poster's opinion/character. The amount of correlation-based accusations that have no proof in causation are wild. He seems to be very political and assumes everybody else to hold extreme views... mates, chill out it's just PERB.

 

[toda1]

Aside from imposing his personal opinion on other people's character based on simple opinions that have no inferences (e.g. debt-to-GDP is a more reliable way of assess fiscal responsibility than debt volume alone), and his inability to argue a point without attacking others (too bad tens of thousands of dollars in degrees don't teach this), he makes some good points that are debatable. Though, he tends to only shit on ideas rather than provide an alternative - which considering the depth of understanding, is extremely disappointing.

Also, numerous times in this thread he's conducted mental gymnastics to assume a poster's opinion/character. The amount of correlation-based accusations that have no proof in causation are wild. He seems to be very political and assumes everybody else to hold extreme views... mates, chill out it's just PERB.

Despite all the efforts to have a civil debate on politics (and economic policies), it always goes to shit because like everything in life, everyone is set on their point of view without understanding each other. From my experience, people who are overly political and loudest are usually the ones with the least amount of actual power and tend to be in the lower social and economic class. They yell the loudest because there is nothing else they can do.

Real power is silent but those people will never experience it given their low social/economic class. If I need something done/changed that affects me, I make a few donations and make a deal behind closed doors. I don't need to bitch about how other politician/party or other people's ideology is shit and how my party will rain down unicorns and rainbow. I don't give a shit which party is in power because let's be honest, politicians (especially in Canada) regardless of party and ideology can be bought.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

Im just waiting for the Ayn Rand refeferences to come up somewhere.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

Despite all the efforts to have a civil debate on politics (and economic policies), it always goes to shit because like everything in life, everyone is set on their point of view without understanding each other. From my experience, people who are overly political and loudest are usually the ones with the least amount of actual power and tend to be in the lower social and economic class. They yell the loudest because there is nothing else they can do.

Real power is silent but those people will never experience it given their low social/economic class. If I need something done/changed that affects me, I make a few donations and make a deal behind closed doors. I don't need to bitch about how other politician/party or other people's ideology is shit and how my party will rain down unicorns and rainbow. I don't give a shit which party is in power because let's be honest, politicians (especially in Canada) regardless of party and ideology can be bought.

How Brown shirt of you.

 

[LLLurkJ2]

Aside from imposing his personal opinion on other people's character based on simple opinions that have no inferences (e.g. debt-to-GDP is a more reliable way of assess fiscal responsibility than debt volume alone), and his inability to argue a point without attacking others (too bad tens of thousands of dollars in degrees don't teach this), he makes some good points that are debatable. Though, he tends to only shit on ideas rather than provide an alternative - which considering the depth of understanding, is extremely disappointing.

Also, numerous times in this thread he's conducted mental gymnastics to assume a poster's opinion/character. The amount of correlation-based accusations that have no proof in causation are wild. He seems to be very political and assumes everybody else to hold extreme views... mates, chill out it's just PERB.

I didnt have a problem with discussing posts on a board until the charaxter asasination attempts started, and I ageeed in the begining that debts not good.

But when people tell me something 'must' be done a certain way and won't broach normal discussion on it, well it just smells bad really.And in the end its just demagoguery and stupid elitism - monkeys throwing feces and beating their chests to show they're the better chimps, when in then end we're all still just dumb apes.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

So as this thread degenerated into a flame war, the topic of "election" was still the subject.
Take a look at the polls which can be pretty wrong but as of today its a virtual dead heat Libs and Tories. If the Liberals figured this was a cakewalk to a majority they fucked this one up royally. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Conservative minority government Sep.21.