Overrated/Underrated
- Thread starter AA_Train
- Start date
I wonder how much greater Gretzky would've been if he hadn't been traded, and was kept on a team with four other 50 goal scorers, all in their prime?
Gretzky scored 50 in 50 games 3 times (39, 42 and 49 games). Lemieux did it once in 46 games. Gretzky was a 1.92 PPG player over almost 1,500 game career. Lemieux was 1.88 PPG over 915 games. Both are undeniably awesome, but Gretzky is certainly NOT over rated. He is absolutely the best that has played the game to date, over a very long time span. He dominated the NHL for 16 straight years; more than 100 points for 15 of them, 14 in a row. Over-rated? Not likely. You don't have to harsh on Wayne to discuss how great Mario is...
True, but Lemieux's GPG average was .754 to Gretzky's .601. Plus watching both of them play lemieux had far more physical talentthan gretzky ever did and gretzky had a lot more to work with around him during his prime.
Overrated sniper: Jari Kurri
Underrated sniper: Mike Gartner
And maybe Gretzky made everyone around him that much better, thus creating options for himself... We can argue about this forever without reaching a conclusion.
Mario being "underrated" has nothing to do with Wayne Gretzky, and it annoys the hell out of me when people try to drag Wayne down when they try to justify how awesome Mario is. Mario can stand on his own merits, and regardless of the reason you care to point to, his accomplishments are short of Wayne's. Wayne scored his second THOUSAND points in 80 less games (433) faster than Mario took to score his first thousand (513 games, 3rd fastest 1000 points after Wayne's first and second thousand)
BTW, if GPG is your standard of greatness, then Mike Bossy is the best player ever @ 1.15 GPG over 656 game career.
I don't know here you get your stats from but according to the NHL's Official Guide and Record Book, Mike Bossy's GPG average is .762 not 1.15 and he played 752 regular season games. It is the highest GPG average in history among players with 200 or more goals. If you count the combined regular season and playoffs, Lemieux has the highest average of all time at .749.
ahhh... I stand corrected. Not sure what I was looking at there, but definitely calculated the number wrong for Bossy. I use http://www.quanthockey.com/
My point is that Lemieux is awesome, and not under rated by any stretch. And he stands on his own accomplishments, no need to drag down Gretzky. That's what I don't get; how people can say Gretzky is over rated. He dominates almost every statistic worth looking at, and did so over a long career.
when I think of great players I look at what they did for guys they played with.
playing with Gretzky some guy named B.J.MacDonald scored 46 goals one season.
I think it was the next season,traded to the canucks, he got 10.
similar story for a guy named Young(I think) with Lemieux he got 40 or so, then with Detroit(?)his goals plummeted.
More recently,playing with the Sedins,a fire-hydrant named anson carter got 30 or so.
if memory serves he signed as UFA somewhere, but never approached similar statistics.
playing with Gretzky some guy named B.J.MacDonald scored 46 goals one season.
I think it was the next season,traded to the canucks, he got 10.
similar story for a guy named Young(I think) with Lemieux he got 40 or so, then with Detroit(?)his goals plummeted.
More recently,playing with the Sedins,a fire-hydrant named anson carter got 30 or so.
if memory serves he signed as UFA somewhere, but never approached similar statistics.
Well to be fair, Anson Carter had 4 20+ goal seasons before the Sedins so 33 isn't a huge stretch. I mean look at the other players they did not make too much better in Steve Bernier and Trent Klatt.
Another reason that I feel Lemieux is underrated, Gretzky had a much better supporting cast throughout his career.
Mario did have Ron Francis, jaromir jäger, Paul Coffey, Rick Tocchet, Kevin Stevens and Mark Recchi throughout his career.
good point, Borko, I should give carter more respect than I did.I do remember some writers saying how he "made" the Sedins..I call b.s.
I say they made him.
I agree not everyone is going to be a fit with the twins,though I don't believe Bernier or Klatt have really produced
playing with anybody?
Alex Burrows has certainly benefitted from being on their line and I think Zach Kassian had a hot atart when he was with them?
regarding the supporting casts of Gretzky&Lemieux....both had great teammates,but those Oilers!
I honestly believe if Pocklington could've kept them intact, they'd've been competing for the Cup into the mid 90's.
That,I know, is debatable,just my opinion.
Paul Coffey, tony tanti, mark Recchi, Kevin Stevens and even Tom Barrasso had won a vezina by then.
Tom Barrasso did indeed win a Vezina, with Buffalo. Tony Tanti was on the wrong side of his best years. Recchi and Stevens were emerging stars, Ill give you that but they were not exactly Messier and Kurri in their primes.
From Wikipedia: Lemieux paid dividends right away, scoring on the first shot of his first shift in his first NHL game. However, the team spent four more years out of the playoffs after his arrival. In the late 1980s, the Penguins finally gave Lemieux a strong supporting cast, trading for superstar defenseman Paul Coffey from the Edmonton Oilers (after the Oilers' 1987 Stanley Cup win) and bringing in young talent such as scorers Kevin Stevens, Rob Brown and John Cullen from the minors. Also, the team at last acquired a top-flight goaltender with the acquisition of Tom Barrasso from Buffalo.
So before the 1989-1990 season, the cupboard was pretty bare.
Of the two, Lemieux had more talent. Better skater, better stickhandler, better shot. Gretzky had above average talent but it was paired with the highest hockey IQ of anyone to ever play the game,that is what set him apart.
Ok, I love the hockey talk but let's try to get back to the purpose of the thread.
Overrated Star Trek TV Series: The Original Series
Underrated Star Trek TV Series: Deep Space Nine
Ok, I love the hockey talk but let's try to get back to the purpose of the thread.
Overrated Star Trek TV Series: The Original Series
Underrated Star Trek TV Series: Deep Space Nine
Sisko could kick Kirk's ass with one hand tied behind his back. Although out of all the captain's, Picard is superior to them all. My man, JLP.
PS that finger isn't directed at you furball8, I just thought it was a funny picture
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