http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/09/29/micro-brothels-run-out-of-lower-mainland-apartments-on-the-rise
I wouldn't be surprised if LE will start visiting the various micro brothels in the lower mainland
Micro brothels on the rise
- Thread starter kodiak_bear3
- Start date
I wouldn't be surprised if LE will start visiting the various micro brothels in the lower mainland
Hi kodiac bear,
Bears and wolves like us aren't known for being easily intimidated.
It always faintly amuses me when I read, with boring regularity, about crackdowns on prostitution.
Demand for it is just too deeply rooted, evolutionarly, in male desire for sex with a variety of attractive women. And crackdowns, at worst, drive up the price of supply temporarily, and of course worsen working conditions for the category of SPs affected.
Easier to scoop up the Pacific Ocean with bare hands than get rid of sex workers, or even make a substantial dent in their numbers.
Bears and wolves like us aren't known for being easily intimidated.
It always faintly amuses me when I read, with boring regularity, about crackdowns on prostitution.
Demand for it is just too deeply rooted, evolutionarly, in male desire for sex with a variety of attractive women. And crackdowns, at worst, drive up the price of supply temporarily, and of course worsen working conditions for the category of SPs affected.
Easier to scoop up the Pacific Ocean with bare hands than get rid of sex workers, or even make a substantial dent in their numbers.
i had hoped to downplay the stereo type of human trafficking in micro's being rampant...
the guy called me and was already writing the story so i asked him where he stood on decrim vs abolition. he replied in a vague way i guess not wanting to be biased so i talked to him for an hour. he listened and i guess it got through. the language he uses is respectful and there's no abolitionist quote....
he also highlighted the harms caused by enforcement action. VPD are moving in the right direction but RCMP across the lower mainland still employ enforcement tactics against sex workers to fight human trafficking. i have had some interactions with RCMP but they remain blind to the problems they create.
the guy called me and was already writing the story so i asked him where he stood on decrim vs abolition. he replied in a vague way i guess not wanting to be biased so i talked to him for an hour. he listened and i guess it got through. the language he uses is respectful and there's no abolitionist quote....
he also highlighted the harms caused by enforcement action. VPD are moving in the right direction but RCMP across the lower mainland still employ enforcement tactics against sex workers to fight human trafficking. i have had some interactions with RCMP but they remain blind to the problems they create.
Hi Susie, I was wondering...i know i think ive probably asked this before, but its not illegal to be doing an incall appointment in your own private home, right? Because recently I had a mentally ill senior senile immigrant client who was absolutely the worst client/human being i've ever met, and then i told him i could never see him again through phone, he started threatening me with extreme saying he will call the police to my house blah blah, so i explained that what im doing isnt illegal and i will have to report him to the police and then he stopped. But it just got me thinking...what if an officer came to my house lol? What could they do? i'm the only person here mostly...
Hi Caramel. My understanding is that seeing clients for sex reasons in your own place is not illegal. Advertising for sex for money is, as is "living off the avails" - ie if you own a place and rent it out to sex workers or take a cut of what they charge. The actual act of sex for money is not in itself illegal.
My rant: It is obvious to me that the screwy prostitution laws were created by wealthy politicians back in the day. They made it illegal to advertise - (ie it is illegal for women to do it) - made it illegal to run a brothel - (ie it is illegal for people to profit from it if they are not themselves doing the act) - but made it legal to actually pay money for sex - (ie it was legal for them, the wealthy politicians, to pay the sex workers for sex acts).
working as an indy is not illegal. 2 consenting adults may exchange sex for money in the privacy of their own homes.
the spaces being rented by agencies who have 10 apartments lets say and women working there are breaking the bawdy house law. but that law is at the center of the supreme court challenge and is under review so anyone charged under the bawdy house law simply need launch a charter challenge and set their fate in line with the supreme court decision.
inside vancouver city proper police have make it a public policy to not enforce against consenting adults. the RCMP are unpredictable however and under the direction of the federal/ conservative/ abolitionist government. they believe the feminazi rhetoric and act believing we are all victims of exploitation, high on drugs, infected with disease and abused as youth.
this is why i fight so hard against the stereo types.
anyway, do not fear the threat of calling police. if police are called, you are not doing anything illegal. if they are persisting or seem to mis interpret the laws (seem to believe sex work illegal- cops don't always know the law)say nothing to them, call me or someone else you trust and we will contact lynda malcom. she can support respectful dialogue between you and police.
again, it is not illegal to work from your own home. the law can be misinterpreted however if police are not educated about the laws or issues. even micro brothels (agency incalls) are not being enforced against inside the city of vancouver unless an underage person or exploitation are occuring. if someone is charged for some reason under the bawdy house law...or any of the sections of the criminal code in question....they should launch a charter challenge. their case would then be added to the ongoing case out of ontario.
it is a confusing time for the sex industry in canada. here in the lower mainland, especially vancouver we have some sense of security from enforcement...for now anyway....
threats from a client involving "i'll call the cops" are empty. tell him you will phone the cops and call lynda malcom on him. predators have long used the threat of arrest to force workers into compliance. those days are over for us here. they will be treated for what they are by police. of that i am sure.
the spaces being rented by agencies who have 10 apartments lets say and women working there are breaking the bawdy house law. but that law is at the center of the supreme court challenge and is under review so anyone charged under the bawdy house law simply need launch a charter challenge and set their fate in line with the supreme court decision.
inside vancouver city proper police have make it a public policy to not enforce against consenting adults. the RCMP are unpredictable however and under the direction of the federal/ conservative/ abolitionist government. they believe the feminazi rhetoric and act believing we are all victims of exploitation, high on drugs, infected with disease and abused as youth.
this is why i fight so hard against the stereo types.
anyway, do not fear the threat of calling police. if police are called, you are not doing anything illegal. if they are persisting or seem to mis interpret the laws (seem to believe sex work illegal- cops don't always know the law)say nothing to them, call me or someone else you trust and we will contact lynda malcom. she can support respectful dialogue between you and police.
again, it is not illegal to work from your own home. the law can be misinterpreted however if police are not educated about the laws or issues. even micro brothels (agency incalls) are not being enforced against inside the city of vancouver unless an underage person or exploitation are occuring. if someone is charged for some reason under the bawdy house law...or any of the sections of the criminal code in question....they should launch a charter challenge. their case would then be added to the ongoing case out of ontario.
it is a confusing time for the sex industry in canada. here in the lower mainland, especially vancouver we have some sense of security from enforcement...for now anyway....
threats from a client involving "i'll call the cops" are empty. tell him you will phone the cops and call lynda malcom on him. predators have long used the threat of arrest to force workers into compliance. those days are over for us here. they will be treated for what they are by police. of that i am sure.
Can someone explain what a "micro" is...? I mean, I kind of get the jist, obviously, but how do they operate? How many ladies are there? What kind of services do they offer? It is my understanding that there is sometimes a man or multiple other people on the premises? Does this ever make you feel unsafe or uncomfortable? And do they have these types of places downtown? I'm sorry if these questions sound ignorant but I'm really curious about all aspects of this business and totally unfamiliar with this part...
Hallelujah '
I thought I was the only one that did not know about the business. (Never mind know everything I know nothing , ok just a tiny bit more than I did a couple weeks ago. ) Thanks Cami for an unintentional boost to my day. A perfectly good question never sounds ignorant by the way.
mcmj
Oh, if they actively started doing sting operations aggressively, they absolutely could close most those operations down. And since most of the people who work in those sorts of setups are probably working illegally, they would get sent out the country faster than recruiters could recruit. Saying that prostitution is legal would not be a defence for them, because then it would mean they are violating the terms of their visa.Hi kodiac bear,
Bears and wolves like us aren't known for being easily intimidated.
It always faintly amuses me when I read, with boring regularity, about crackdowns on prostitution.
Demand for it is just too deeply rooted, evolutionarly, in male desire for sex with a variety of attractive women. And crackdowns, at worst, drive up the price of supply temporarily, and of course worsen working conditions for the category of SPs affected.
Easier to scoop up the Pacific Ocean with bare hands than get rid of sex workers, or even make a substantial dent in their numbers.
It would be harder for police to stop citizens because they could just set up shop in another condo, but all these imports you like so much would be pretty much stopped in their tracks if the police had the will to do something about it.
I have visited my fave "micro" many times and not once did I encounter another guy or any male or any type
of controlling person.In essence the "micro's" are very much like the 1-4-1's in Hong Kong but slightly different as they are not as open and accepted.The biggest opposition to them in Calgary from the most part
is by the Escort agencies who view them as under-cutting competition but at the same time the gals the agencies have under their "umbrella" feel that they dont have to offer the same services or offer the same VFM
as it is "beneath them"....a typical western womans attitude to say the least.
SR
When I first wanted to leave the MP business, I searched the Adult Entertainment classifieds for an Escort Agency. I found an ad that sounded promising, called the number, and went for an interview. I met with a young lady, who turned out to be the phone girl. When I said I'd give it a go, she instructed me to go to a condo on Seymour St., which I did. There, I found 3 other young ladies hanging out. In my green-curious way, I asked, 'so who lives here?" The question was met with (what seemed to be) some embarrassment, and finally one of the ladies offered (unconvincingly) that she did.
So the job entailed waiting for a client to drop by (guided there by the phone lady), and suggesting that he choose one of us, which is exactly what I hated about the MP business!
I had inadvertently hooked up with 'a micro' and I lasted there for one shift! Shortly thereafter, I rented my own (second) apartment, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Hope that little description helps, Miss CP...
Micros are very hard to avoid if you like asian women. There are very few independent asian women out there. I myself do not like micros because I am always concerned that some of the women have been duped into being there, are forced to work long hours, and only get a smaller cut of what I am paying. It is sometimes impossible however at the beginning to know for sure if it is a micro as my question of "are you independent?" is always met with a "yes", regardless of the truth. Certainly there are easily identifiable micros - they are talked about frequently on this board - but there are asian women who advertise independently and appear independent but are actually part of micros. It is sometimes hard to figure that out until you actually go to see them.
WH
WH
So they're very cheap then, is what you're saying? I wouldn't call anything "under cutting" as everything is different... Certainly Timex isn't "undercutting" Rolex, and Fruit of the Loom isn't "undercutting" Frederick's... Odd that any one lady would feel threatened by another ladies business as we are all such unique individuals...
technically even an independent incall is a "micro" in the eyes of police. remember they do not understand the differences like we do.
but yes, generally a micro is an apartment/ condo brothel where 1 to 4 or 5 workers are. sometimes they have security and so someone else, possibly a man is present. some have you line up and some would run ads for each individual worker so the client will have booked a particular woman before arrival so no line up happens.
its one of the things cilents complain about- booking a particular woman then arriving to find her not present or availible so then they must pick from a line up or even in some cases settle for mamasan ( an older woman whose role is security)....
mostly these workers are not forced. they simply fear arrest and deportation so try to be very discreet. a big highrise can disguise your clientel coming and going.
again, the VPD understnad that illegal asian micro workers are not for the most part forced and even though they are working illegally, they also are protected by the new non enforcement policy. they understand that deportation and arrest of these workers is making them disappear underground and not access police help when they need it. so they are not activly looking for foreign or illegal workers.
other areas in the lower mainland still subscribe the racist and anti immigrant stereotype of all asian workers being trafficking victims. they must be victims...they're asian.....so they continue to enforce based on this belief that they are some how "rescuing" workers......
undercutting is a problem and is not only a problem in our industry. trucking for example experienced an influx of foreign workers who were willing to work much cheaper and who drove prices down so far it is now difficult to make any money as a trucker any more.
the influx of illegal immigrant workers has impacted the prices here across the board. they are willing to work for much less and as such have driven down prices in certain sectors. as well as they are willing to provide more intimate services than western sp's and for a lower price than say a pse provider at $300/$400 an hour.
my understnading is in some cases it may seem like its cheaper but then you get there and the "upsell" happens. everything is an extra fee so then end up making a wage closer to that of a western sp.
anyway, i could carry on for hours about it and the differences.....i won't bore everyone....
love susie
but yes, generally a micro is an apartment/ condo brothel where 1 to 4 or 5 workers are. sometimes they have security and so someone else, possibly a man is present. some have you line up and some would run ads for each individual worker so the client will have booked a particular woman before arrival so no line up happens.
its one of the things cilents complain about- booking a particular woman then arriving to find her not present or availible so then they must pick from a line up or even in some cases settle for mamasan ( an older woman whose role is security)....
mostly these workers are not forced. they simply fear arrest and deportation so try to be very discreet. a big highrise can disguise your clientel coming and going.
again, the VPD understnad that illegal asian micro workers are not for the most part forced and even though they are working illegally, they also are protected by the new non enforcement policy. they understand that deportation and arrest of these workers is making them disappear underground and not access police help when they need it. so they are not activly looking for foreign or illegal workers.
other areas in the lower mainland still subscribe the racist and anti immigrant stereotype of all asian workers being trafficking victims. they must be victims...they're asian.....so they continue to enforce based on this belief that they are some how "rescuing" workers......
undercutting is a problem and is not only a problem in our industry. trucking for example experienced an influx of foreign workers who were willing to work much cheaper and who drove prices down so far it is now difficult to make any money as a trucker any more.
the influx of illegal immigrant workers has impacted the prices here across the board. they are willing to work for much less and as such have driven down prices in certain sectors. as well as they are willing to provide more intimate services than western sp's and for a lower price than say a pse provider at $300/$400 an hour.
my understnading is in some cases it may seem like its cheaper but then you get there and the "upsell" happens. everything is an extra fee so then end up making a wage closer to that of a western sp.
anyway, i could carry on for hours about it and the differences.....i won't bore everyone....
love susie
:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
You tell her Baby!!!! Don't worry, anyone that knows you knows you were clearly joking... And we still need to convince Alex to jump in bed with us!!!
You tell her Baby!!!! Don't worry, anyone that knows you knows you were clearly joking... And we still need to convince Alex to jump in bed with us!!!
my experience is that they simply don't understand. with education the police do come around but for now we are caught in the middle of some police understanding and others not understanding thus the inbalance in enforcement strategies.
You're just mad at everyone, and 80% of your comments are negative or trying to stir the pot for some unknown reason... You should relax a but... This is supposed to be fun, and the constant biting is left at home, not on the boards... That's the whole point... If things aren't said to you directly, you really need to learn to leave it alone. You honestly don't portray yourself in a very positive light... And I'm sure you'll say you don't care what I or anyone else thinks, and that in and if itself will probably be your downfall .... Turn that frown upside down and play nice with others :nod:
