Mass murders ,it happening again!!!!

[johnsmit]

Just a little side note.
The acctual amount of people that have died from fentanyl OD is likely a lot higher then the reported official number. Numerous deaths are not investigated for drugs or are they expert enough to suspect fentanyl. Or they just don't want to bothered to send samples away because of the time it takes. And some families don't want it Stated that there family member died of a drug overdose.

Never the less this is world wild and in epidemic perportions and the amount of deaths here in our locale area and provincially is just a small amount compared larger populated areas .There it would be all most I'm possiable to determine what drug was the cause of all the drug related deaths.If it mixed with a know easy to detect drug ., then no doubt that will be put down as cause of death, fentanyl would be totally over looked.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Just a little side note.
The acctual amount of people that have died from fentanyl OD is likely a lot higher then the reported official number. Numerous deaths are not investigated for drugs or are they expert enough to suspect fentanyl. Or they just don't want to bothered to send samples away because of the time it takes. And some families don't want it Stated that there family member died of a drug overdose.

Never the less this is world wild and in epidemic perportions and the amount of deaths here in our locale area and provincially is just a small amount compared larger populated areas .There it would be all most I'm possiable to determine what drug was the cause of all the drug related deaths.If it mixed with a know easy to detect drug ., then no doubt that will be put down as cause of death, fentanyl would be totally over looked.

Correct. Stats only show overdose deaths where the family or someone else gets the OD victim to the hospital & they expire in a hospital environment. It doesn't count those who drop dead in an alley, a club bathroom, or a 5 star hotel room. Also doesn't count the near fatalities that result in permanent disability (brain damage) or the lucky few who actually gets the Naloxone in time.

 

[johnsmit]

The one thing I find very strange is that there has been a number of high profile celebrity due from drug overdoses and many of the resent ones it was fentanyl that they OD on. Now we're they even aware what they were using ? Was in suicide in some cases?
Again it seems there friend ,family and the community sees it as a tragedy and an inevitable out come of their addiction struggle. And yet they could of just as easily been supplied with the deaday drug to purposely kill them
And I feel that is highly likely when millions of dollars are involved.
But we hear nothing of the posiablity of murder when this deadly drug is involved.

 

[Caramel]

I've only read the first part of your post and not every reply, so I will only reply to that part. A lot of the users DO KNOW its fent, they are so sick and so addicted to it that they are willing to take the risk of hitting a "hot spot" (a high dose of fentanyl where its not properly mixed) and dying. True story, there is a documentary recently done in Canada by CBC http://watch.cbc.ca/firsthand/season-2/episode-7/38e815a-00b3f74929f

 

[westwoody]

Point taken on the murder issue although some people might argue there is little difference between handing out poison to a bunch of people you know are going to take it and herding them into gas chambers.

Then "some people" are fucking idiots who have no god damn clue.
My father was one of the first Allied troops into Buchenwald, and saw Dachau as well.
I toured the Auschwitz site myself. Also saw REAL genocide in various overseas rotations, as in piles of bodies in ditches, securing sites for UN war crimes investigators, and worse.
Comparing drug dealers with those places is ridiculous and tells me "some people" lead pretty cushy sheltered lives.

There are plenty of places where many more people die for being the wrong religion, the wrong race, or just because they are in the crossfire.
That never bothered the latte liberals of Vancouver.
Fentanyl is the first time they have had to face anything up close and they are panicking.

 

[johnsmit]

I am sure many addict know it fentanyl ,for that last 6 month I heard that there has not been much or any herion available, so they are all shooting and smoking some combination of fentanyl and what ever.
That should not mitigate the fact they are being sold a possiable death sentence. Whether they are druggist or not they deserve to be treated better by their deserve tug dealers .
As for other problably %50 of deaths by occasional users and shit in party favors they just seem to be ignorant of the fact and dangers of fentanyl., even though there are all the reports of deaths .Those deaths are still being promoted more aso the street scene and long time drug addicts. Totally miss leading reporting.

 

[Caramel]

100 percent agree. Serial killers at work. Incredibly sad to see police not being able to stop this or find the source.

Its Chinese, really easy to get from China. The reason why its so heavily prevalent everywhere is because its easy to order off the internet with a click of a few buttons from the research chemical labs in China. No more smuggling kilos of heroin through the ports, now it comes right through Canada post into your mailbox.

 

[clu]

Correct. Stats only show overdose deaths where the family or someone else gets the OD victim to the hospital & they expire in a hospital environment. It doesn't count those who drop dead in an alley, a club bathroom, or a 5 star hotel room. Also doesn't count the near fatalities that result in permanent disability (brain damage) or the lucky few who actually gets the Naloxone in time.

It was my understanding that if a body was found in an alley, club, etc. the coroner's office would have to determine cause of death nonetheless, particularly if there are no external signs (e.g. ingested not injected). Would those Fentanyl statistics not roll those toxicology reports into their numbers?

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

It was my understanding that if a body was found in an alley, club, etc. the coroner's office would have to determine cause of death nonetheless, particularly if there are no external signs (e.g. ingested not injected). Would those Fentanyl statistics not roll those toxicology reports into their numbers?

No, they don't. The overdose deaths we see reported are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[uncleg]

I go to a SW or SP or..????...have bareback sex, end up with brain rot clap and it's all my fault....I should have known better. The fact she told me she was clean just isn't a good enough excuse...it's your fault buddy. Go to some back alley hump or dial a dope dealer and get whatever shit you intend to snort, inject, smoke or mix in your drink and it kills you...it's, oh you poor victim...just wanted to have some fun, relax after a hard day at work. Well if you need a drug for that get some from a Doctor...... if that kills you then there's some excuse to complain. You go dial a dope........you are a fucking dope. No sympathy whatsoever, clean out the gene pool.....

 

[johnsmit]

I guess that the general consensus and that's why no one being charged with murder.
Sad but true.

 

[summerbreeze]

murder is a stretch

possibility of an involuntary manslaughter, but of course I am not a criminal lawyer

not that its any better regarding the criminality of distributing harmful substance

not sure its a blanket situation, more like a case by case situation but I agree that something like this can grow in terms of level of problem and a proportional response is warranted

 

[clu]

No, they don't. The overdose deaths we see reported are just the tip of the iceberg.

Do you have a link to anything that specifies their inclusion criteria? The only thing I can find is this coroners' report:

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...th-investigation/statistical/illicit-drug.pdf

Since it comes from BC Coroners Services itself it seems odd that they wouldn't include street deaths, club deaths, etc. since they would have that data.

Edit to add: I'm responding to the train of thought where you followed up on johnsmit's speculation that the number of deaths would be much higher than the "official number." (I think he was responding to LalaniElectrica's number of 755, which seems to be the number from this report.) You seem to be saying this official number wouldn't include street deaths etc. Yet this Coroners' Report seems to be the source of the official number and there's no indication they'd exclude them. I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing?

 

[johnsmit]

I was making an assumption that maybe some deaths were not reported as drug related for variety of reasons.
As it turns out that not all deaths are examined by a BC corinor to determine course of death , they often accept the cause of death report from the hospital. And there are a number of death. Where unknown cause is listed .

There were over 35000 deaths in B.C last yr..95 were listed as murder.

If more drug deaths were classed as murder that would sure raise the murder rate above acceptable levels.
There were 605 murders in all of Canada in 2016 ,add in just 40% of drug deaths and we would have over 2000.
murders of some degree.

I am not suggesting that every drug related deaths should be classed as murder and yet culpability can be ascribed to other then just the user, and those supplying tainted drug that are a lethal combination have to bear part if not all responsibility for the persons death .

Just a note .BC. has the highest number of reported drug deaths . It strange that Ontario and Quebec are lower. But they also have different criteria for having a corinor investigation for deaths in the province.
I personally don't think they want to report the amount of real drug deaths in their Provence. They report them as other cause.

 

[Matthew Porter]

Consuming drugs will always lead a person to the road of loss and death. We know that very well but actually our mind is forgetting to accept it.

 

[westwoody]

Clu: it is often difficult to determine an exact cause of death.
Fentanyl may be present but it may not be provable as cause. And it might not be cause. It is a common and safe drug when used as intended.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Do you have a link to anything that specifies their inclusion criteria? The only thing I can find is this coroners' report:

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...th-investigation/statistical/illicit-drug.pdf

Since it comes from BC Coroners Services itself it seems odd that they wouldn't include street deaths, club deaths, etc. since they would have that data.

Edit to add: I'm responding to the train of thought where you followed up on johnsmit's speculation that the number of deaths would be much higher than the "official number." (I think he was responding to LalaniElectrica's number of 755, which seems to be the number from this report.) You seem to be saying this official number wouldn't include street deaths etc. Yet this Coroners' Report seems to be the source of the official number and there's no indication they'd exclude them. I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing?

Even looking at the report, it seems evident the numbers are skewed to the deaths in custody, or inside at any rate. Looking at the stats on page 5? Inside deaths are listed over 600; outside deaths 7. Does that seem accurate knowing about what the homeless population in Vancouver is facing? That just doesn't seem right with what I have heard anecdotally from people who are working with the drug users network. A cop in Yaletown told me that if they roll up on a DOA on a corner, that isn't among the OD stats. In other words, if a homeless drug user is found dead on the streets this morning in the cold, without a rig in their tied off arm, what is the actual cause of death? Exposure?

 

[clu]

Even looking at the report, it seems evident the numbers are skewed to the deaths in custody, or inside at any rate. Looking at the stats on page 5? Inside deaths are listed over 600; outside deaths 7. Does that seem accurate knowing about what the homeless population in Vancouver is facing? That just doesn't seem right with what I have heard anecdotally from people who are working with the drug users network. A cop in Yaletown told me that if they roll up on a DOA on a corner, that isn't among the OD stats. In other words, if a homeless drug user is found dead on the streets this morning in the cold, without a rig in their tied off arm, what is the actual cause of death? Exposure?

Fair enough. I appreciate the insight.

 

[Warl0ck]

Just a note .BC. has the highest number of reported drug deaths . It strange that Ontario and Quebec are lower. But they also have different criteria for having a corinor investigation for deaths in the province.
I personally don't think they want to report the amount of real drug deaths in their Provence. They report them as other cause.

These numbers may well be skewed though by the DTES. Vancouver is Colombia North for drug importation but it's also a place with a relatively temperature climate. That is attractive to addicts elsewhere in places with cold winters. Do you really want to be a homeless addict in Winnipeg? Don't quote me, but I believe that Patrol District 2 (includes DTES) uses something like 40% of the VPD police budget. Further complicating the matter is BC has a proportionally large number of native reserves, many are isolated and live in extreme poverty. All haven for illicit drugs.

As for "is it murder" well the CCC stipulates that in a homicide there must be "significant contributing cause" for a charge of murder to be laid. So is selling drugs murder? I suppose one could argue that the significant cause was the sale of drugs to the individual but the court could well say the real significant cause was the drug user ingested the toxins by their own devices. So a conviction would be extremely difficult. The Controlled Drug and Substances Act DOES have some real teeth to it. The problem is not the police, it's the court system & all it's technicalities along with certain judges who make questionable calls.

Personally, I'm not a drug user and I certainly don't want our society to enable users to take drugs. But, I'm also a realist. The demand for drugs (like pussy) will always be there so the real debate needs to be how far as a society to do we go with the sale & distribution of drugs. Fentanyl may be that drug which starts up a serious conversation on this because it's killing middle and upper class kids. When Suburban Sally OD's politicians will suddenly see the "light" and engage in ideas how to fix the problem.

It's only a matter of time before someone smokes weed and OD's because it's laced with fentanyl.

 

[summerbreeze]

I have a hard time believing its in any drug pusher's interest to kill their customers (no repeat business)

Rather, a combination of greed, ignorance, indifference, lack of quality control, uneducated users, (with respect to specific dosage) is contributing to something dangerous

not unlike New York in the 70's and the heroin trade