MacKay announces that a bill is coming soon to regulate prostitution.

[johnsmit]

And then as it has been said over and over.. They would force prostitution underground . make it more dangerious for those involved..which the court worned them not to do..

NO LAW WILL STOP PROSTITUTION FROM OCOURING.

All so where is all the money going to come from to beaf up inforcement.. Impliment all these programes.. Thst will be put in place.. Social servies doesn't have enough funding now..and
They are going to be asked to do more... I dont see much enforcement being done

 

[susi]

No it isn't. But it isn't what susi hopes it to be either. The "advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred" is in regards to hatred of a person or persons based on their nationality, race or religion. None of those fit sex workers. But it does fit the side issue a few members were discussing above.

the portion i refer to in it is the "that constitutes incitement to hatred, hostility or violence"...which abolitionist rhetoric does...it incites all of these against sex workers. while i understand that its not clear in that section that sex worker rhetoric qualifies, in fact you are right it...it is certainly not a hate crime....or promotion of hatred.....it is easy to demonstrate to students or other mainstream systems how it SHOULD qualify as such....

i describe the results of bad research, biased data and the the promotion of that data as fact by those who wish to destroy our community....its hard not to see the link there....

anyway, while its not officially hatred ....i find this section useful in communicating the cost of myths about sex workers/ clients lives....

i mean imagine if you said....

all christians were abused by their parents and are forced into christianity by religious traffickers and priests.
90% of christians would get out of christianity if they could
all christians are on drugs and suffering from addictions

the point is, if you take any of the abolitionist statements and substitute any other visible minority...(all be it...christians are hardly a visible minority) the statements become hateful....

and yes section 7 is the place where we have the most hope of winning the day but i like to challenge people with other sections as well.

love susie

 

[johnsmit]

What ever form this new regulation of prostitution takes.. it will not be easy to enforce.. The internet has all ready suppied away for all activies to be conducted out of site out of mind..
Exslusive members clubs will still allow indavidual to arrange meetings.. some of which has been active for years.. Like Sex search. Adult friendfinders... And even Face book.. It is impossiable to regulat people getting together.and to monitor what two concenting adult do.. weather money changes hads or not it still has to be witnessed and testifed about in a court.. That will only happen in a sting operation.

I think that many hard core SP user they will ajust and continue to see providers

And there wi still be main of the present ladies still providing their services.. Deffinetly promoted in a differe t way ..but still avalable.

When a law is not justifed it will be cercomvened.. and making selling prostitution servies and using them illegal is not justified .. after it has bsdn legal for 250 yrs

 

[canuck33660]

It's really too bad that all the lawyers, judges, politicians, police officers, corrections officers, doctors, paramedics, preachers, professional athletes, actors etc. who are clients of SP's don't have the balls to speak up on behalf of all clients, isn't it?

That is the biggest irony in all this.

 

[johnsmit]

It funny that Christian are not considered a minority.. As group lumped all together .no they are not.. But Christianity..is not a cohesive group.. They are a divers group. of people that believe and follow different doctrins.. Hence what one person might call a christian and lomp them in with every one.. It real is not the case amoung the people that claim to be christain.. One does not agree with the other.. Just like all the other religions.. They all constitute a minority

And religius belief are protected under.. bill of right and freedoms..

So form a religion.. of sex prestess.. as in the old day..and all us believers will be allowed to practice our faith.

 

[Tugela]

It's really too bad that all the lawyers, judges, politicians, police officers, corrections officers, doctors, paramedics, preachers, professional athletes, actors etc. who are clients of SP's don't have the balls to speak up on behalf of all clients, isn't it?

But when they start being sent to jail for a few years, and forced to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives, their interest in continuing to see prostitutes and/or escorts will vanish in most cases.

 

[johnsmit]

Yes Charter of Right and Freedom
.i was being lazy

Thanks for the correction

Have you ever noticed . by me puting out those wacky idea. making errors in the info ..that some one is there with the right info ... Pressents in a much more cohearent way then i do... And my objective is acheved

 

[rickoshadows]

Well in that case how come public display of nudity in gay parades doesn't bother anyone ? People need to be consistent with their morals if they allow gay bars and gay saunas, they also have to allow brothels, not promoting gay sex and punishing straight men for having sex with women.
Also brothels don't need to be in public display Like Amsterdam, they can be licensed to operate in industrial areas with no public signs . Who would care ?

You do not remember the human rights clashes in the 70s between the gay community and the conservative family values crowd. Gay bath houses were routinely raided and lives destroyed. The gay community stood up for it self and many individuals paid a very high price for that. But in the end they persevered and while it may have not been a total victory, they have, for the most part won. The military and police forces no longer systematically discriminate against gay members, Gays are accepted in most social and work environments. At the moment, the socially conservative elements simply don't want to pick this fight again.

This community is not there yet. We do not have a critical mass of people who are willing to sacrifice their professional and family lives to fight for this issue. It is too easy for many of us to melt back into our "real lives" and pretend we were never part of this. Until a significant amount of members of our community make some changes and put something on the line, prepare to continue to live your preferred life in the shadows and continue to risk sanctions by unfair legislation.

 

[Big-Daddy-T]

Do you guys remember a couple years ago when I jokingly suggested that perb form it's own political party?

There already is such a party. The Sex Party. I'm a registered member. Their entire platform revolves around legalizing and regulating prostitution, creating more clothing optional public venues, and installing a European style Sex Education Curriculum to public schools (which starts with age appropriate classes at kindergarten and progresses through the grades up to high school). Unfortunately they get very few votes as these are their ONLY platforms.

 

[uncleg]

It is interesting to see there are no large crowds of men protesting for their right to continue seeing SP's, on Parliament Hill.

..........and the SP's are....................where ??? The majority are staying just as far in the shadows as the men are.

 

[Big-Daddy-T]

It funny that Christian are not considered a minority.. As group lumped all together .no they are not.. But Christianity..is not a cohesive group.. They are a divers group. of people that believe and follow different doctrins.. Hence what one person might call a christian and lomp them in with every one.. It real is not the case amoung the people that claim to be christain.. One does not agree with the other.. Just like all the other religions.. They all constitute a minority

And religious belief are protected under.. bill of right and freedoms..

So form a religion.. of sex priestess.. as in the old day..and all us believers will be allowed to practice our faith.

Actually, in Ancient Greece the priestesses of Aphrodite used to provide sexual services for their deity's faithful in exchange for donations to the temple. This practice was continued later in Rome by priestesses of Venus.

So no need to create a new religion in order to make prostitution a religious practice. Just build a temple to Aphrodite, and have the women who work there legally ordained as Her clergy.

While Aphrodite may not have been actively worshiped for nearly 2000 years, no one can deny that she IS a goddess and thus worshiping her constitutes a religion.

 

[johnsmit]

I have clamered about tbe ladies have a right to choose what they want to do with their bodies.. I have never thought that men have a right to sexuall services.. We don't.
There for it very difficalt for any man to go a protest . In favour of prostitution.. In one respect what are we insiting on

I personal have come to the conclusion that is is a fight between women..and their opposinf view points on sexusllity.. Men.... and what is apptopriate behavour.. .. Allso there seem to be a bunch of women who jhst hate men..and blame men for all there woooos.

Every where in the issue it is women against women . Or other for their right..
Like the first ruling that got this all started.. All though there were previous ruling on prostjtution case by male judges that denied similar chalanges.

Also the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is a women and a few others..
The members of parliment bring this to the forefront were women.. and and allmost everone anti prostitution are women...

Those men that are involved on the anti prostitution side are goverment minster incharge of the law.. the Prime Minister who represents the goverment view point.. and we assum his own.. But i am not so sure of what view he hold.. Is his to protect women... or to control women .

But never the less.. I can not see any pro prostitution men standing up in publice.. first for fear of lossing thier : anonymity and being chastised by society and their peers.. And secondly.. we as men have no right to ask or expect sexuall servises from a women... Even in a relationship.. Of course it kind of takes the fun out and deffeats one of the reason that people get together... But many keep saying prostitution is not a relationship.. It is a job.

 

[uncleg]

Believe it or not, some women who offered to speak up have been told to keep quiet.

Since men are the ones in danger of being labelled criminals, it makes sense to me that they would be the ones making the most noise. Surely there have to be pooners somewhere who have nothing to lose by lobbying for it to remain legal?

Who told you to keep quiet and why ?

I have been involved in trying to get more "pooner" participation........but, most men are staying in the closet on this. There are posts.

One of my positions has been, more SP's such as yourself and the Peyton's and such should be stepping up publicly. Most of the arguments against prostitution is based on what is visible on the streets ( DTES) and what is insinuated about the Asian operations. Add the stories about the Eastern European dancers being brought in and being "forced" to get into the sex trade and you can paint a pretty bleak picture. But. when the hausfrau next door steps up, or the college student down the hall, people you know and can relate to opinions tend to change. Obviously not all of them, but maybe enough.

 

[sdw]

I didn't know that. Do you have a link to more info?



Believe it or not, some women who offered to speak up have been told to keep quiet.

Since men are the ones in danger of being labelled criminals, it makes sense to me that they would be the ones making the most noise. Surely there have to be pooners somewhere who have nothing to lose by lobbying for it to remain legal?



Sounds like a perfectly viable idea, lol. We might need to think outside the box to find solutions.

ask and you shall be linked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sex_Party

2008 Sex Party victory over Canada Post
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=7ba6b2e6-9a2f-4dc9-8168-6e311b5710bb

 

[sdw]

I can't believe I never heard of them before. I guess because I didn't live in the Vancouver area back then.

Where are these people now? Sounds like they had a good foundation to build on and too bad they disbanded when they did - or were they way out in left field somewhere on the issues?

It's a combination of things.
1. It's expensive to run a political party
2. Both federally and provincially, there are limits on what a person can contribute to a political party
3. The person that does the accounting (Official Agent provincially, Financial Agent federally) can go to jail if there are discrepancies.
4. We are a prudish society

Just to be able to run a political party costs the maximum donations of 100 or more people. That's just basics like the auditor that is required by law, the phones, office space, office furniture. Why, you ask, can't it be done out of a person's home? Because the value of providing that space far exceeds the allowable contribution a person may make.

So, you have to find over a 100 people that are willing to give $1100 per year and have their names and addresses published in the annual report that is publicly available.

Then, you must find 75 people to sign nomination papers in each riding. Nomination papers are also public documents.

The changes to the elections act federally and provincially basically killed all of the fringe parties. They just can't meet the requirements to be able to issue tax receipts. If you aren't an official political party, you don't have access to the voter's list and you don't have the money to be able to run a campaign.

The last set of changes to the elections acts federally and provincially were intended to kill off the fringe parties. The set of changes that the Harper government is proposing to the federal elections act is intended to kill off the Bloc, Greens and NDP. The vision is that Canada will have a 2 party system like the USA.

 

[uncleg]

Yes but nowadays why a gay person has the right to get laid but a straight man is punished for having sex with a woman ?
So gays have the right to enjoy their sexual freedom but straight men not ?

Well, if you can find a woman that will fuck you for free then you won't be punished either, unless the wife catches you, if you have one.

 

[rickoshadows]

Yes but nowadays why a gay person has the right to get laid but a straight man is punished for having sex with a woman ?
So gays have the right to enjoy their sexual freedom but straight men not ?

The sad reality is that you only have the rights you or someone is willing to fight for. Governments make a good attempt at guaranteeing a set of rights for all their citizens, and in the western world, our governments are better than most. But citizenry and their governments are made up of individuals who all have their own set of values/morals. Like minded individuals group together and try to impose their ideas on the remainder. If it is a good idea which the majority can agree upon, it becomes law. Laws against murder, assault, theft, etc are things we pretty much can all agree upon.

Unfortunately, in a democracy, we occasionally get groups of people who cobble together a coalition to force heir particular philosophies/ideas on the rest. We then end up with laws which are not fully respected by large segments of the population. Prohibition was a great example of that, just as the laws banning cannabis are now. Sometimes changes in attitude/philosophy of the general population can change what is acceptable. Slavery was once acceptable but is not any more. Homosexuality was illegal, but is now acceptable. The laws and attitudes towards prostitution are right now on the tipping point and the next few years will bring changes on way or another.

 

[uncleg]

Well you know that in straight world it's very complicated to fuck a woman for free.A gay person get get laid anytime, just show up at the gay bar and pick any person without all this dating drama and fuck the same night for free. This is not realistic in straight world to go a to a straight bar and ask a woman to have a fuck right away, so the fastest way is to pay, but gay people don't need to pay because they are more direct.
And even with all this dating process it isn't free , you have to pay for drinks, dinners, gifts ...

O.K..............let's agree you haven't spent a lot of time in gay bars...............:doh:

 

[PlayfulAlex]

O.K..............let's agree you haven't spent a lot of time in gay bars...............:doh:

I dunno, Uncle. A gay-curious late-20's male friend of mine recently visited a Davie Street gay bar and he was hit-on immediately, by a variety of potential one-night suitors, of all ages. He ended up leaving after a couple of drinks, because the pressure was actually a little too intense for him, being just curious and all.

What's your experience at gay bars?

 

[Tugela]

Yes but nowadays why a gay person has the right to get laid but a straight man is punished for having sex with a woman ?
So gays have the right to enjoy their sexual freedom but straight men not ?

That is covered under freedom of association, but freedom of association does not extend to commercial transactions. The ability to buy and sell whatever you see fit is not protected by the constitution.