Very interesting documentary (27 minutes) about life in prison and the cost of supporting them. It's a case study in California but I think a lot can be learned here.
Life in Prison
- Thread starter jesuschrist
- Start date
We may not have stupid laws like they do, but we do have very similar problems housing geriatric inmates and the huge costs associated with them. That was the point of the video, not the stupid laws albeit it exacerbates the problem down south.
its soooo hard to get locked up in this country ,
get a half assed lawyer and you walk.
99% of those in Canadian prison , deserve to be there and you should be glad they are in there.
however I dont believe in just locking them up to watch t/v and read books and work out in the gym.
They should do hard labour. No work , not food , no work, no clothes , no work , no bed .
A prisoner should not get better food than our troops in combat zones or more comforts.
dont do the crime if you can't handle the time ,
I hope the Bacon brothers and their play mates are having fun now.
get a half assed lawyer and you walk.
99% of those in Canadian prison , deserve to be there and you should be glad they are in there.
however I dont believe in just locking them up to watch t/v and read books and work out in the gym.
They should do hard labour. No work , not food , no work, no clothes , no work , no bed .
A prisoner should not get better food than our troops in combat zones or more comforts.
dont do the crime if you can't handle the time ,
I hope the Bacon brothers and their play mates are having fun now.
Did any of you even watch the video? It's all about the cost of housing these people, especially as they become elderly. A prisoner over 65 is costing the tax payer something like $400000 per year!!!!
In order to get that kind of money back, goo is right in a sense. They should do hard labour! And also if the crime is serious, harsh punishment should be used which many include a big fine, and/or big amount of money to bailout.
The vast majority of elderly prisoners are not Clifford Olsens and do not represent a danger to society, especially those that committed crimes decades ago. Bringing an extreme like him up as an example does not prove your case.
The fact is that the recidivism rate drops like a rock after prisoners go over 65 years.
It doesn't really matter how old you are. What it matters is your mentality. A person who is over 65 years old can do a serious crime. So yes, the parole board somehow plays a part of the role for the society. But since prison life in Canada is somewhat good in a sense, I doubt they will want to be released. Even though they are released, they may wanna re-offend again.
When it comes to money, it all depends. Some are greedy, some are not.
Yes, the system is biased in favor of releasing prisoners due to the fact that everyone can have another chance in life. This is because these "forgivers" can't see thru life! But they totally forget that if there's another chance, especially something that can cost your life in a sense, people will tend to re-offend or attempt to do it because of selfishness and other reasons.
What are you trying to say? That we shouldn't give people another chance to be part of society? In your mind, I guess we ought to just fire up the gas chambers and the ovens?
Yes he has stated many times death penalty for almost all crimes, including vandalism. Its the Chinese way, and they are a much more successful country and people than we are. Have you not read some of his posts? My signature is really a post of his.
It's not that simple people! Read thru China's laws, especially those that have death penalty. And also the USA. Death penalty is supposed to act as a deterrent to others. No one wants to use it. But there are people that like to attempt it. So, if you are very cooperative, then there may be a chance that the death penalty may not be used. What these death penalty allowed countries want is to tell you to think the consequences before acting it out. Be a fucking responsible and mature person. This is not a child play! Yes, you can have your freedom, but please act responsibly. Do you know how fucking hard it is to govern a country with 10 billion people in China? It is very easy to destroy the country if there's even one bad person act out serious crimes. In order to make sure that the 10 billion people in China are good, China has very tight politics. They don't just tell you what you can do, but they also tell you what you can not do. That's why I always say that your view points are narrow and also that you don't really know what the world is going on. So, death penalty is supposed to act as a deterrent to others so that to hope that no one will do serious crimes that people are gonna regret when they are going to be put to death.
You put TEN billion twice. If it were a deterant, people would be detered, but when you compare stats comparing US states, with and without a death penalty. It isn't the case. In the words of Stu from hangover......"riddle me that"
Throw in Europe.....even less crime. They don't have a dealth penalty. So why arent these people all committing crimes, since as you put it.......no sense of responsibility.
China keeps this data secret. Can you even get exact numbers of executions per year???
No the Chinese government keeps this hidden.......out of shame.
Shame knowing its justice system is more in line with 3rd world dictatorships and middle eastern countries under Islamic law.
Than it is with the modern world.
Frankly I think the reasons you stated as the reason for the death penalty in China makes a lot of sense. The West tends to see this as barbaric. The West also tends to see its view of human rights as more evolved and universal. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, human rights as developed by the West was only the by-product of religious principles as expounded by Christianity. Other civilizations do not have the background of Christianity as a driving force for the development of their civilizations. There are Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Confucianists, etc. They all thought they were morally superior to everyone else too.
The Chinese of Imperial China believed that they were more civilized than the rest of the world, including the West. Their society was founded upon Confucian principles. Today's Asian societies (except Japan) continues in that tradition. It is as arrogant for them to believe they were more evolved than the West, as it is today for the West to believe that other cultures are barbaric.
Moral values have always been relative. Life is never an absolute right above all to the individual. Some societies believe that the right to life for an individual is counterbalanced against the right to life of the larger society. Some societies believe that moral values and laws cannot be derived or codified without the divine law as issued by a higher power, ie: Muslims.
What makes sense for China in terms of crime and punishment is right for China and not for the rest of the world. Similarly, human rights for Canada makes sense for Canada, but not for China. Every society must advance their own as they see fit without interference from others. What if China decided to complain every time we sent a child molester to jail instead of executing him for the life-long suffering of his victims, especially if they were of Chinese ancestry? What if China were to complain if we sent a company president to jail for tainting baby food that killed infants, instead of executing him for all these deaths (like what happened in China)? What if China does what Israel does, interfere with the laws and treatment of American citizens, in particular Jews?
I believe that Canada needs to move away from a humanist-democracy in order to advance. We are hamstrung by absolutist principles about life and liberty and freedom of expression (which we actually don't really have). It takes forever to get anything done in Canada, it costs too much because there are too many stakeholders with a voice that outpowers their actual stake, our taxes are too high because the ultimate evolution of democracy is the welfare state, etc.
In Canada we need to disband the humanist-democracy for a humanist-meritocracy. Democracy has created mediocre schools and lazy children. It has caused tax payers to foot the bill for supporting life-long criminals, thus causing further suffering to the wider populace by child molesters beyond their immediate victims. Democracy has given equal vote to ignoramuses as to the educated and learned. Democracy gives minorities such as feminazi and special interest groups such as Women's Action Committee undue influence over the majority. In a meritocracy, prison lifers would not have their health care paid for, nor would they sit idle in jail on any day, nor would their "rights" to not be enforced into labour be recognized. Instead, they should work every day of their lives in jail so as to not make the taxpayer suffer. They should work 10 hour days, 7 days a week, without pay except to compensate tax payers for their costs to keep them in jail in reasonable health. In a meritocracy, you merit the consequences of your actions. If you are a good productive person, you deserve success. If you are a wicked person and you end up in jail, you deserve to pay back to society. You never deserve to sit idly in your home and collect welfare. You never deserve to sit idly in jail after molesting children and be fed and housed every day without doing a damn thing. You never deserve to pay 50% of your wages as a successful person to support those who choose to sit at home and collect welfare and drink their paycheques away, or support drug addicts.
jesuschrist says it all! If you wanna keep comparing with China, be my guest. China's system is more transparent than Canada. They do exactly what they say. Canada's not. Like I said before, don't just talk the talk, but also walk the walk.
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What you are showing is that China is adding things that can be used by the death penalty. Trust me, death penalty in China exists since the long long long long history. Just like our normal daily lives. When you pass grade 1 requirements, you go up to grade 2. However, Canada's sytem is always in grade 1. If you let it go to grade 2, it's not gonna likely to survive. So, in a sense, China's evolving. Canada's not. It's like you add oil to water. They can't mix together. It won't become solvent. You'll still see oil and water separately. So, adding them together will be meaningless and will get worse. This is what Canada's doing. Putting things that don't belong/mix and bang, explode. Everything gets worse. That's the morality that you guys are having: Keep adding things that don't fit and meaningless. It's good to change things around, but sadly, it's the total opposite. Simply, you are doing it the wrong way.
Again, read post #20.
That was an interesting read. Fortunately (or rather, unfortunately), move "advanced" nations like the United States are far better at covering up state-sponsored activities of a similarly heinous nature, usually using others to do their dirty work. The evidence against the United States is public and well-known. For example:
1) the American government looked the other way as American hospitals bought much-needed blood from the Nicaraguan government at the time when Anastasio Somoza's regime, propped up by American forces, ruled as a dictatorship for over 50 years. Poor citizens, prisoners, etc., donated their blood for money or forcibly to Nicaraguan hospitals, and the trade in blood to the United States was transacted by Somoza as middleman who lined his own pockets from the profits. After he was deposed by the Sandinista revolution, Somoza and his family was granted asylum in Florida and never given a trial. You have to take care of your friends, you know.
2) Rendition: the kidnapping of citizens and foreign nationals by the CIA and sent in for "interrogation" at the hands of foreign governments, usually by torture. The resulting information would be transmitted back to the United States.
3) School of the Americas: an American funded training school, along with supplies of armaments, along with personnel from the US military, to death squads in Central America to prop up pro-US dictatorships. These death squads murdered millions in those countries. The "School of the Americas" is an American invention, it was not something the foreign governments did at their own behest. Profits to powerful families and the status quo were the incentive.
4) The Iraq War - was nothing less than an effort at colonization and plundering of resources of an entire nation, under the guise of finding weapons of mass destruction and other excuses.
5) ... need I say more?
It has been an ongoing trend since China was opened up by Nixon to scrutinize Chinese government activities for human rights abuses, handling of environment, handling of animals, resource mining in Africa, etc. Even when China was nothing more than an impoverished 3rd world nation in 1950, it was cited over and over again since then, hypocritically. When China was not even a threat, and now when the power of the West is slightly contested, considered a huge threat? I think this is in the same vein that the Japanese were characterized as foreign devils during WW2 by the West, and again in Hollywood with characters such as the evil "Dr. Fu Manchu", and again "Mao Tse Tung", and again "Kim Jung Il". Over and over Asiatic peoples were viewed with suspicion, characterized as dubious and always up to no good, and evil:
Japanese soldier caricature vs Adolf Hitler
One of Hollywood's most prominent and first Asian characters, Dr. Fu Manchu
Mao depicted in The New Yorker, 2007.
A short maniacal madman with squinty eyes. The least grotesque caricature, but its only a sign of a more accepting Western attitude; nevertheless it still exagerates beyond reason and communicates ridicule, even in this age.
