Liberals Win!!!

[JD24_7]

ALSO THANKS FOR COSTING THE NDP 8 SEATS IN BRITISH COLUMBIA FROM VOTE SPLITTING!

In New West-Coq the Conservatives won by a mere 45 votes, which would make this the closest race in BC this year. Anyways here is the funny fact, In this riding the Christian Heritage party was able to garner 711 votes. You take 100 votes from that party and move them over to the NDP, and well this race would have been over. At times i have a hard time wondering why some of the fringe parties exsist, especially ones that split the vote. Your right about NDP losing seats, i was hoping to see at least 25-30.

I think Chuck Cadman will be welcomed into the Conservative fold. I do not think the Conservatives wanted to lose him in the first place but had to because he lost out in the nominaton. Chuck Cadman was very well recieved when he was in the Canadian Alliance, and i dare to say a welcome addition to the Conservatives.

Oh and i am very happy that Belinda Stronach won in her riding. Hottest female in parliament?, i think so.

 

[brianwarner]

If it's a Liberal minority with the NDP, good. There is no doubt on my mind the Conservatives lost because Canadians are suspicious of the hidden agendas of Harper:

1) radical privatization of health care
2) joining the US on their military adventures

 

[Rowdy Rodney]

I looked at the final numbers this morning and it pretty well ended up the way I thought. I figured that the Liberals would get about 145 seats and the Conservatives 105 so I was not off by much. Good to see an independant get in.

Oh well, I guess in the next few weeks we will see if this will be a 6,, 12 18 or 24 month term. I have a funny feeling that we will be doing this all again on June 28th of next year.

 

[qwerty]

Lol if cadman and the bloc join the conservatives, the house is split 154/154. We'll be voting again in less than a year.


And for the debate on the successes of alberta, though they are rich in natural resources, it does take GOOD management to thrive the way their province has. It also helps that they have broken down the unions there to attract businesses.

I think it's funny that here in B.C. the (provincial) Liberals said they were going to cut costs and balance the budget. They were givin an overwhelming majority abd have kept most of their campaign promises without causing too much scandal. (following the Alberta model of weakening the unions) Now everyone is crying that we can't get rid of them fast enough.

I guess we need a reminder as to why we got rid of the NDP here, more waste and loss of businesses.

 

[sleddogg]

If it's a Liberal minority with the NDP, good. There is no doubt on my mind the Conservatives lost because Canadians are suspicious of the hidden agendas of Harper:

1) radical privatization of health care
2) joining the US on their military adventures

This clearly shows that the liberal campaign of spreading fear worked. Rather than listen to what the conservative party was saying, people listened to what Paul Martin said about them. Yes Harper spoke about private delivery of health care, but still providing it free of charge. The health care system in this country has been broken for a while, as a result of...the liberal party that has been in power. The federal government has cut funding to helath care to a point where OPTIONS need to be explored. If a private company provides the health care, what does it matter if the government pays for it and it is EQUALLY accessable to all. Nto two-tiered, or pay as you go as Martin and the liberals may lead you to believe.

Second maybe it wouldn't hurt to increase spending on defense a bit. When Canada sent troops to Afghanistan they were sent in jungle fatigues because the liberals had cut funding and couldn't afford to properly equip our troops. I'm not saying we should follow the US into Bush's personal war against the world but shouldn't Canadians have a military they can be proud of? It doesn't have to be big, but for God's sake, make it well equipped. Canada has lost its place of prestige amongst the world's nations by cutting funding to international aide and reducing its once proud military to an international laughing stock. And its all happened under the watchful eye of the liberal party.

 

[Cock Throppled]

Originally posted by rickoshadows:
Registered: May 2002
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 279

You know Howie, If a party were to come along and offer the kind of fiscal responsibilty and allow people to keep what they earn like the Conservatives and at the same time, be socially progressive, permitting people to live, love and do as they chose without handing out money to every hardluck story that comes along. The parties we recognize today would be instant history. Unfortunately, in every option we are offered, the good comes with some very unpopular baggage. As a result, we chose the the least painfull, or as you say, middle of the road mediocrity.

THERE IS A PARTY LIKE THAT!!!...but nobody voted for them. PLEASE check out the Green Party (a little late now, but handy for the next election). They have a full platform on every issue that is the most progressive in the country.

 

[wilde]

Mission accomplished

The Liberials with a minority will have to clean up their act big time if they have any brain cells left. So to those of you who think you need to get the lube out, I am sorry you feel that way. But nothing can be further from the truth.

Surprisingly, they gained seats in BC. Not surprisingly, Alberta remained almost a sea of blue. And I think that's what scared the voters in Ontario - the party with the Western root. Oh and a big thank you to Randy White for not keeping his big mouth shut, they couldn't have done it without you.

 

[Makhno]

Re: Mission accomplished

The Liberials with a minority will have to clean up their act big time if they have any brain cells left. So to those of you who think you need to get the lube out, I am sorry you feel that way. But nothing can be further from the truth.

Surprisingly, they gained seats in BC. Not surprisingly, Alberta remained almost a sea of blue. And I think that's what scared the voters in Ontario - the party with the Western root. Oh and a big thank you to Randy White for not keeping his big mouth shut, they couldn't have done it without you.

wilde:
I hope you're right about the Liberals cleaning up their act. . If they don't, watch out next time! This time around, the electorate chose to admister a mild spanking with the open hand. The next time, I'm sure it will be with the cat of nine tails if they continue on their merry ways.

As far as Ontario being scared of transferring power, this probably has a lot of credence. Looking at it from the other side of the coin, check out this Calgary columnist's views on the topic.
________________________________

Ontario results insult Alberta

Don Braid
Calgary Herald
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Oh my, get ready for it -- more months or years on Canada's fringes for Calgary, more anger, more frustration, more endless stretches with no Calgary minister in the federal cabinet.

"Those bastards in Ontario," said one Conservative at the Roundup Centre last night, as the results became clear. "How could they do it again -- how could they vote Liberal?

Well they did, and the turning point was the demonizing of Stephen Harper through Ralph Klein, and by extension, of all Alberta.

"This will be very frustrating," says Roger Gibbins, president of the Canada West Foundation. "Paul Martin said he was going to end western alienation and then he ran a campaign against Alberta.

"I don't know if this is actually dangerous at this point, but it certainly is troubling."

At one election night party with high-level Conservatives, a guest left early with the comment: "I'm going to visit my separatist friends."

He wasn't joking.

The message from Ontario is almost insulting. More than 40 per cent of voters said they prefer a government with a long record of corruption to any movement with western roots.

Gibbins says that after "bumping its head against the stump" one more time, the

Conservatives are going to have to ask themselves what they have to do to win.

For the Liberals, the technique for winning is absolutely clear. Divide the country regionally -- without, of course, ever attacking Quebec.

"What Martin will do now," says Gibbins, "is say he has to build bridges with the West."

That's exactly what Pierre Trudeau said in 1980. Then he rolled the national energy program over the bridge.

The more accurate analogy, however, might prove to be 1972, when a Liberal-NDP coalition produced two years of legislation that Conservatives hated, and the beginnings of the movement toward national government control of oil prices.

The shades of that era were obvious last night, especially when Ed Broadbent, then the NDP Leader, got himself elected again.

But the Conservatives can't put all the blame on the Liberals and those peculiar Ontarians.

The plain fact is that Stephen Harper didn't ignite support with the kind of passion or vision that attracts undecided voters.

But Harper showed tremendous class in his acceptance speech last night, demonstrating a toughness we might have seen more of in the campaign. And he made a good point when he said the battle isn't won or lost as long as there is a minority government.

The conservatives did their best to put on a good face at the Roundup Centre, but I've been at funerals where people had more fun.

One common reaction among Conservatives was to blame Ralph Klein. This will get the party exactly nowhere.

But Mayor Dave Bronconnier figures he's won no matter what the makeup of the government because all the parties support fuel tax rebates to big cities.

"A minority government is not reason to slow down on this issue -- not at all," the mayor said.

"We have to keep pushing until we get this."

Small consolation -- but for a city that gets very little from this election, better than nothing.

 

[Makhno]

 

[Makhno]

The knives are out for Ralph....in Calgary, of all places!!!

Blame Ralph
Massive Klein blunder derailed potential Conservative majority
Tue, June 29, 2004
By Paul Jackson -- Calgary Sun

The reason why Conservative Leader Stephen Harper did not wake up this morning with a majority government and the mantle of prime minister of Canada can be laid squarely at the feet of Alberta Premier Ralph Klein.

This should enrage every Albertan -- and every true conservative across the nation -- but then Ralph has hardly done anything right since he got off the bottle.

Pray to God that Ralph doesn't join AA and become a totally sanctimonious nitwit.

Opinion polls were all showing Harper just about squashing Paul Martin's Liberals in Ontario and across much of the rest of the country, too.

Martin and his team were desperate.

None of the mud they were throwing at Harper's Conservatives would stick.

Voters didn't believe Grit distortions about Harper's policies.

Then an unlikely angel -- no, a saviour -- appeared.

With 10 or so days to go before Canadians went to the ballot box, Klein announced he would unveil his health care reform plans on June 30 that might violate the sacrosanct Canada Health Act. Just two days after federal voting day.

Martin and his strategists leaped on that.

What was Klein hiding?

Why wouldn't he say what his health care plans were before polling day?

Harper was obviously in cahoots with Klein, too, Martin charged.

After health care had been ravaged in Alberta, Harper's Conservatives would do the same to the rest of the country.

Particularly in Ontario.

That was it.

Harper's chances of a majority government were over.

All thanks to Ralph Klein.

Martin's scaremongering worked this time.

The polls started turning the other way.

Naturally, Harper knew nothing about Klein's health plans.

That's why, when Martin demanded Harper reveal what he knew, Harper couldn't.

"If Mr. Harper wants to be a prime minister, he should act like one," scoffed Martin.

Game over for Harper and the Conservatives.

Of course, Klein then had his health minister, Gary Mar, trot out a few positive points, but it was too late.

So why did Klein torpedo Harper's Conservatives?

There are various scenarios out there.

One is that Klein is still a closet federal Liberal.

Another is that after more than a decade of being

premier of Alberta, he couldn't stand the thought there would be another more important Albertan in power than he.

Then there's the Machiavellian talk that a well-known political strategist conned Klein into it.

This theory, hard to believe, but it is going the rounds, is that the strategist decided to throw this election so Harper would be finished and the Conservatives would have to have another leadership race and the strategist's favoured candidate would win the Conservative leadership.

Give the Grits this cycle -- and we'll take the next with our candidate.

Personally I don't give much credence to any of these scenarios, but our premier, now apparently being so out of touch with the Alberta people, should at least know these rumblings are being discussed in coffee shops.

The truth is in this last theory: Utter incompetence and complete stupidity.

This one I do believe.

Klein has become so inept he didn't even realize what he was doing.

Lost his political smarts.

Just blundered his way into a controversy -- and a defeat for the Conservatives and for Canada -- without even thinking twice about it.

Could this be the first sign of Alzheimer's?

We should surely adopt the U.S. system for both presidencies and state governorship and make both a two-term limit.

Get them out before their brains become totally addled.

Right now, though, Klein should offer an abject apology to Harper and Conservatives across the nation.

Not that an apology will do any good.

Klein has just ruined the one chance our nation had to grasp the future.

The FORKS are out for Ralph Klein.

 

[brianwarner]

Ditch_Canyon: "As far as the "Radical" privitization of health care, did you read the Conservative platform on health care"

Should you believe everything you read, especially in party platforms? It's no secret that the Conservatives wish to cure economic ills through supply-side economics, make smaller the government, and reduce taxes, and increased corporate participation in economic cycles. This is a game that has been played 1000 times over and again by conservative elements in many countries. Though they say delightful things in their platform about how to deal with health care, the policy position of such idealogies is to source out the work and management in health care to competing private corporations. This is a radical departure from the present Canadian health care system, which is to guarantee universal health care to all irrespective of ability to pay. Stephen Harper has never been a creative thinker, and his ideas are by the book conservatism. He's not a problem solver, he just believes that the country should be run a certain way and that this will solve problems.

 

[wolverine]

Well, some news reports are saying that Harper might step down.

Like I said before, it wasn't just the Klein/health care fiasco that nailed the Tories. The talk of scrapping the sexual orientation discrimination law or revisiting the abortion thing spooked away many social liberals like myself.

If that wasn't bad enough, one of the alternative weeklies here in E-town did a questionaire with the candidates of one riding, and one of the questions pertaining to the FTAA trade agreement. The Conservative candidate basically said that government services (health care, education, water, etc) should be part of the free trade negotiations.
Click on this link for more:
http://www.seemagazine.com/Issues/2004/0624/front1.htm

 

[HoweeMeeker]

Re: Re: HA, Love it S.G. You are too much!

Naive is having to pay out $600 million in energy rebates that could have went to healthcare and education in one year because you didn't do your homework on the basic economics of energy deregulation.

Is that monkey the conservative who designed the BSE program to support those hard done by American conglomerates with meatpacking plants in Alberta. Is he accountable for the $50 million Albertan tax dollars that went to benefit American companies?

Just because they don't pay their friends directly doesn't mean they don't pay them.

Wow, they are so damn cute when they are naive! I just love it! Thanks for the continual good humour!

I just love this naive thought that money grows not only on trees but that people who work harder, or show more initiative are more than happy to throw it to some special interest group that whines louder than some other. Face facts, Manitoba and on west voted last night for a Conservative Government. Ontario and the Maritimes have a Liberal Government and Quebec is fighting with Pierre Trudeau still and cannot seem to find the right century let alone decade. Great country that is VERY well divided along the willingness to bust the butt mentality and the "let me have more" mentality. The sadest part of the humour is what urban British Columbia did - they believed the scare mongering by the Ontario/Maritime Government. An utterly bizzare result.

Anyway, thanks once again S.G. Gibson. You are funnier than my Robin Williams DVD on Golf

 

[HoweeMeeker]

Well I'm so glad that I keep you entertained Howee. Your rebuttal is nonsensical but at least you are enjoying yourself and that is the important part.

Absolutely S.G. Ooooo, I just want to pinch those rosy pink cheeks of yours.

When you are ready for reality 101, bring both your economics degree and a history background. This will help you realize that a socially responsible society (one that takes care of those who cannot take care of themselves) is one that avoids special interest groups and avoids punitive taxation which grinds initiative and spirit to a halt and, commensurately, the economy into a tailspin. You will see that union mentality of "don't work harder than the weakest link" will not only fail economies, it can fail entire societies.

Anyway, keep posting. It not only makes myself and many others have great humour, it also demonstrates how well media brainwashing works. Southam owes their existance to people like you - see if you can get a "rebate" on your magazines and newspapers.

 

[dittman]

well at least the u.s. is not the only industrialized nation that is polarized and no one wins.

 

[HoweeMeeker]

Good News S.G.

Maybe I'm not so naive.

It's OK, yes you are!

Naive? In spades...but, hey, but I like ya kid....you are keeping us smiling! .


Here's a little story that may help you understand reality a bit:

How Taxes Work . . .

This is a VERY simple way to understand the tax laws the way they are in Canada and how they are getting more this way ALL the time.

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men — the poorest — would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man — the richest — would pay $59.

That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement — until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six — the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, Then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man who pointed to the tenth. "But he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too . . . It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!".

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man, "why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists, Jack Laytonists, Carole Jameists, and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.

Where would that leave the rest of you? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere and those who vote them in cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!




School's out for tonight S.G. Keep the cute rebuttals coming. We love 'em. We really do!

 

[HoweeMeeker]

The Wit! The Rapport! The New, Fresh Ideas!

Great retort! Wow!

Hey, better get some sleep! Wednesday tomorrow. You don't want in the back of the line!

Have a good one.

BTW. You still are cute in your naive views.

 

[Makhno]

 

[Cock Throppled]

Let's face it - most voters are complacent because they are, for the most part comfortable and the change in a federal government has little effect on their day-to-day lives.
The younger voters have issues like everyone else, but are too lazy to get off their cell phones for 1 hour to vote or they think it's cool to be indifferent.
The real problem is out and out laziness to precludes checking out alternative parties that might really change the system and continue voting Lib or Cons because the brand name sounds familiar. This vote has just proved to every crooked politician in the country that you can be as corrupt, lying, irresponsible, thieving, etc as possible and if you just promise to be better next time you can get away with it. And of course, they would never lie about that, would they?