Liberal Agenda

[vancity_cowboy]

for all those against the first past the post system - how would you like to be governed by a coalition that included the recently defeated conservatives?

just asking...

 

[hornygandalf]

for all those against the first past the post system - how would you like to be governed by a coalition that included the recently defeated conservatives?

just asking...

Sure. Not all Conservatives are evil or dumb. And their voice should be represented in the governing of the country.
I would much rather a coalition over an absolute majority. Absolute majorities tend to become corrupt (in the broadest sense of the word) over time.

 

[Tugela]

Sure. Not all Conservatives are evil or dumb. And their voice should be represented in the governing of the country.
I would much rather a coalition over an absolute majority. Absolute majorities tend to become corrupt (in the broadest sense of the word) over time.

Not majorities. Being in power corrupts. A coalition would experience the same forces and infiltration by opportunists that a majority government experiences.

In fact, a majority is better because it provides clear direction, and periodically is replaced by a majority from a different group of people. That constant turnover weeds out the bad apples that inevitably accumulate. A constant coalition government would not provide that dynamic, and the bad apples would become entrenched in the system.

 

[yazoo]

Not majorities. Being in power corrupts. A coalition would experience the same forces and infiltration by opportunists that a majority government experiences.

In fact, a majority is better because it provides clear direction, and periodically is replaced by a majority from a different group of people. That constant turnover weeds out the bad apples that inevitably accumulate. A constant coalition government would not provide that dynamic, and the bad apples would become entrenched in the system.

A very good point. Around the time of the C-36 senate hearings I started wishing that the Senate used their powers (They actually have similar powers to the Commons). They would only be right in doing so if they were more democratic.

Perhaps a model where the Commons is FPP, and the Senate is something else - proportional maybe - would prevent the corruption you identified, but also prevent a party like the Conservatives to exist with a minority of the votes because they have split the electorate with carefully calculated wedge issues.

 

[plumbcrawl]

Luckily for Justin Trudeau, Harper didn't appoint an additional 22 Senators as he could have. Since the Conservative Senators are now promising to block Liberal legislation, Trudeau can fill the empty seats and put a stop to that. He won't even have to do what Brian Mulroney did and "create" new Senate seats when the Liberals were blocking his legislation. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-trudeau-facing-a-senate-conundrum

Have you forgotten our new PM's big showy dissolving of all Liberal senators? lol I guess we'll see how serious he was...

 

[hornygandalf]

Not majorities. Being in power corrupts. A coalition would experience the same forces and infiltration by opportunists that a majority government experiences.

In fact, a majority is better because it provides clear direction, and periodically is replaced by a majority from a different group of people. That constant turnover weeds out the bad apples that inevitably accumulate. A constant coalition government would not provide that dynamic, and the bad apples would become entrenched in the system.

Coalitions can and do dissolve over time as there is movement away from a consensus or differing agendas make it harder to compromise.
Although a majority may provide clear direction, if that isn't the direction the majority of the electorate wants to move in (as could be the case in Canada currently), it is still a problem.
A participative democracy is probably the best, but difficult and cumbersome (Iceland as an example).

 

[sdw]

Have you forgotten our new PM's big showy dissolving of all Liberal senators? lol I guess we'll see how serious he was...

No government has been able to whip the vote of all the Senators. Harper had his own appointments vote against his legislation often. With 22 new Senators appointed by Trudeau and the Senators that couldn't support Harper despite being Conservative appointees, Trudeau should be able to pass most of his agenda. If the Senators won't vote to pass Trudeau's legislation, maybe it needs some additional work.

That situation is much different than a Hostile Conservative majority in the Senate that votes against everything.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

A participative democracy is probably the best, but difficult and cumbersome (Iceland as an example).

technically what you have described is called an anarchy

noun: anarchy

- a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

- absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

 

[hornygandalf]

technically what you have described is called an anarchy

No. What I am describing is a system where there is a high degree of input from citizens. And Iceland and Finland are examples of where this can be seen, and I don't think either of those countries could be remotely described as under anarchy. There is still an ultimate authority, but the government is more accountable to the citizens.

For example, changes were made to Finland's copyright laws as a result of an initiative from the public.
Here in Canada, OpenMedia has provided a vehicle/forum for some degree of participative democracy, albeit outside of the government system, but have then fed the results to the CRTC. And the CRTC is putting quite a lot of weight on their submissions as they are representative of a significant cross-section of Canadian society.

 

[sdw]

What we discovered today is that Justin Trudeau doesn't forget or forgive a slight.

Friend of David Suzuki - no cabinet seat for you

Weren't listening when Justin Trudeau said "No Chance" to any deal of any sort with the NDP? Stephane Dion is Foriegn Minister.

Thought that you could "School" the young guy on military affairs? Harjit Sajjan is Defense Minister.

Some choices are good on multiple levels. Jody Wilson-Raybould is one of them. Former Grand Chief, Former Crown Prosecutor, Woman, Successful Aboriginal. Obviously repairing the relationship with Canada's Aboriginal population is top of the list. The Fisheries Minister, Hunter Tootoo is also a successful Aboriginal.

The "Team" arrived by bus and walked up the drive to Rideau Hall. That's a statement on multiple levels. Besides being an ultimate photo op.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/5-symbols-of-change-from-trudeau-s-swearing-in-ceremony-1.2642288

15 Women, 15 Men and, of course, Justin Trudeau. So Gender Parity wasn't an empty promise.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/full-list-of-justin-trudeau-s-cabinet-1.3300699

The full list of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's new 31-member cabinet, in order of precedence, being sworn in today at Rideau Hall in Ottawa (with their province in parenthesis):

Justin Trudeau (Quebec) - Prime Minister, Intergovernmental Affairs and Youth.
Ralph Goodale (Saskatchewan) - Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.
Lawrence MacAulay (P.E.I.) - Agriculture and Agri-Food.
Stéphane Dion (Quebec) - Foreign Affairs.
John McCallum (Ontario) - Immigration, Citizenship and Refugees.
Carolyn Bennett (Ontario) - Indigenous and Northern Affairs.
Scott Brison (Nova Scotia) - Treasury Board President.
Dominic Leblanc (New Brunswick) - Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.
Navdeep Bains (Ontario) - Innovation, Science and Economic Development.
Bill Morneau (Ontario) - Finance Minister.
Jody Wilson-Raybould (B.C.) - Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Judy Foote (Newfoundland and Labrador) - Public Services and Procurement.
Chrystia Freeland (Ontario) - International Trade.
Jane Philpott (Ontario) - Health.
Jean-Yves Duclos (Quebec) - Families, Children and Social Development.
Marc Garneau (Quebec) - Transport.
Marie-Claude Bibeau (Quebec) - International Development and La francophonie.
Jim Carr (Manitoba) - Natural Resources.
Mélanie Joly (Quebec) - Heritage.
Diane Lebouthillier (Quebec) - National Revenue.
Kent Hehr (Alberta) - Veterans Affairs, and Associate Minister of National Defence.
Catherine McKenna (Ontario) - Environment and Climate Change.
Harjit Sajjan (B.C.) - National Defence.
MaryAnn Mihychuk (Manitoba) - Employment Workforce Development and Labour.
Amarjeet Sohi (Alberta) - Infrastructure and Communities.
Maryam Monsef (Ontario) - Democratic Institutions.
Carla Qualtrough (B.C.) - Sport, and Persons with Disabilities.
Hunter Tootoo (Nunavut) - Fisheries and Oceans, and Canadian Coastguard.
Kirsty Duncan (Ontario) - Science.
Patricia Hajdu (Ontario) - Status of Women.
Bardish Chagger (Ontario) - Small Business and Tourism.

lol, the National Post is still peeved that their recommendation of Harper wasn't followed. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...r-takes-on-carnival-atmosphere-at-rideau-hall

 

[sdw]

Have you forgotten our new PM's big showy dissolving of all Liberal senators? lol I guess we'll see how serious he was...

It looks like - VERY SERIOUS

When Justin Trudeau appointed his Cabinet yesterday, he didn't appoint a Government Leader for the Senate.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/abse...ate-signals-new-direction-prof-says-1.2644075

When Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unveiled his cabinet Wednesday, there was a notable absence: no appointment for a government leader in the Senate.

One constitutional law professor says that’s a significant change that signals a new direction, but could also present challenges for the new Liberal government.

“It certainly indicates that he’s going to stick to his plan of not having any senators in his caucus,” University of Ottawa professor Carissima Mathen told CTV’s Canada AM Thursday.

 

[sdw]

Here's a blast from the past:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...reshadows-political-success-of-kids-1.3305538

Jody Wilson-Raybould's father telling Pierre Trudeau that his daughter wants to be Prime Minister

 

[Lo-ki]

New Federal Cabinet.....15 males---15 females...sounds like an IKEA Cabinet. Justin has 4 years to keep it together....most IKEA Cabinets fall apart after 2 years.

 

[uncleg]

Liberal Agenda.............getting the PM dressed would be my guess.

 

[sdw]

Justin Trudeau has put paid to Northern Gateway and Christie Clark's natural gas plans.

http://www.vancouversun.com/busines...+pipeline/11515875/story.html?__lsa=5601-e317

Enbridge’s proposed Northern Gateway plan is, at least for now, dead in the water after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau released a letter of instruction Friday telling his transport minister to ban oil tanker traffic on British Columbia’s north coast.

A ban would prevent hundreds of tankers each year from carrying diluted bitumen extracted from Alberta’s oilsands and piped to northern B.C. from being shipped for export overseas.

“It will mean that Northern Gateway will never happen,” said Gerald Graham, a Victoria consultant specializing in oil spills for more than 40 years.

Graham said it remains to be seen what oil and gas activities will be permitted and which communities could be affected.