is the doctors shortage manufactured?

[ModSquad]

My recent attempt to see my GP was impossible. Reception won’t answer the phone and their message pointed to the web based booking system they put in place last year.

Their site said my next available day to visit the Dr was 40 days out. I went to ER and was sort of scolded for using the system this way. Turns out I need surgery ( FU booking clerk!) They gave me an instruction sheet with day and time.

It really is a pathetic system weighted down with this false idea that a multiple tiered health system would be the end of our current system. I see it as enhancing the broken one we have now. If we had it now I’d pay for this surgery without hesitation and not have to wait.

 

[westwoody]

I did go to the US for a knee fix because the wait was too long.
The issue with a domestic tiered system is the top tier sucks away all the resources. If it means I get an MRI in a week then good for me. But it also means someone else in greater need but with no money may never get that MRI. Is killing off the poor ok?
Using mri as an example because I know someone in the field. Very very difficult courses and extreme shortage of people.
Medicine isn’t like drywalling or car sales. It’s really fucking hard stuff to learn and maybe one in ten thousand could pass the nuclear meds program, at most.

 

[ModSquad]

I did go to the US for a knee fix because the wait was too long.
The issue with a domestic tiered system is the top tier sucks away all the resources. If it means I get an MRI in a week then good for me. But it also means someone else in greater need but with no money may never get that MRI. Is killing off the poor ok?
Using mri as an example because I know someone in the field. Very very difficult courses and extreme shortage of people.
Medicine isn’t like drywalling or car sales. It’s really fucking hard stuff to learn and maybe one in ten thousand could pass the nuclear meds program, at most.

I’ve been tempted to book this surgery out of province or in USA. It majorly affects my workday and I’m constantly in pain when the meds wear off or when sleeping.

The MRI issue is no longer a long wait. Since I visited a hospital for this injury, I was able to talk with the Xray tech. She told me usually 7-10 days or quicker for life threatening sickness. 15 years ago there was MRI machines at St Paul’s, VGH and UBC for the whole of greater Vancouver. Now almost all Vancouver Coastal hospitals have the most up to date equipment,

Hips and knee replacements are the longest lineup for surgery. 18 -24 months! Given the aging population the Govt better get moving and target orthopaedic surgery as a priority.

 

[westwoody]

If you can get a new knee do it asap.
The longer you wait the more it gets damaged.
I took a ton of painkillers and they made everything worse. Felt sick all the time and allowed me to ruin the knee completely.

 

[YYC]

For those of you who go private, to the US or elsewhere for your surgeries, don't bother relying on our public system if you develop complications arising from those procedures or they don't work.

 

[ModSquad]

For those of you who go private, to the US or elsewhere for your surgeries, don't bother relying on our public system if you develop complications arising from those procedures or they don't work.

I’m pretty sure all medical professionals abide by the Hippocratic Oath.

 

[luvsdaty]

For those of you who go private, to the US or elsewhere for your surgeries, don't bother relying on our public system if you develop complications arising from those procedures or they don't work.

My exs gf went down to Mexico to get some cheap dental work done. It was all botched up and her dad ended up paying over 10 k to have it all repaired up here in Canada

 

[westwoody]

For those of you who go private, to the US or elsewhere for your surgeries, don't bother relying on our public system if you develop complications arising from those procedures or they don't work.

Sure thing.
As long as they dont treat anyone with cancer from smoking, heart attacks from obesity, injuries from sports, or people who get pregnant.

 

[YYC]

I’m pretty sure all medical professionals abide by the Hippocratic Oath.

Of course they are, are least the ones in Canada are. And they're well regulated and educated, but others in other places aren't. My point is that if you go to a botched procedure, or a procedure that has complications associated with it, don't go back to the public system looking for help. You can't have it both ways.

 

[80watts]

The whole medical system has to be overhauled. I will say that most people that work in these clinic and emergency rooms, although trained.
They are lazy fucks.... (or its the system that makes them lazy)...

Why have I come to this conclusion, today I went to a clinic before opening time by 20 min, (keep in mind there were about 30 people ahead of me); to register (take name and bc care card- 5 min of work), it took over 2 hrs for this to happen. Someone came around and took my Blood pressure, heart rate, and temp while I was standing up in the lobby waiting to get registered. I will say that most of the people that work on the computer are slow, they seem to take just as long between walk-ins and actually taking information of walk-ins. About equal amount of time I would say. (what the fuck is that receptionist doing after the first 3 hours after the clinic hits its limit and closes down walk-ins).

To get to the nurse for triage (priority medical), it took me 3.5 hours (since clinic opened, remember I showed up early). Mind you I was only there to get a prescription, but triage is the thing that will determine when I would see a doctor. Triage has to be done fast and priorities sent to the doctors first. I understand this. But the triage was in my opinion too slow. Triage should be done within 30/40 min of walking in that front door.
The problem- the triage nurse is putting in numbers into a computer (blood pressure etc), which defeats the purpose of triage. Some one else can put in the numbers, the triage nurse makes the decision if I see a nurse practitioner or a doctor or give me a time to come back later; this should take 5 min or less.

Look it comes down to a numbers game. It depends on the number of doctors available, but most importantly how fast your triage goes. For a clinic the number of walk-ins depends on the number of doctors/nurse practitioners available.

Once past the triage, it took less than 1 hour for a doctor to phone me (remember that I should not be a high priority for triage).

So today the problem was 1 nurse to triage everybody. This was the bottleneck in the system today.

If I had a family doctor, I would just phone his office for a subscription and be done with it. But since I don't I have to go to a clinic. Another problem is that doctors have to cover their ass when handing out prescriptions, or it will bite them, (loss of insurance etc).

So today I fiqure the BC health care system wasted 2.5 to 3 hours of my time, when things could of moved along a lot quicker. Ok I bought an book to read cause I know the system is so fucking slow.................

Yes there are signs about being polite.....Doesn't mean you can't ask very loud questions about why the fuck they are so slow......

Name me 1 civil servant in government that works in the health portfolio that doesn't have a family doctor? slow burn question of the day....

70% of walk-ins at the clinic have family doctors. Doesn't add up when the receptionist says the doctor waiting list is 150,000 for Victoria, The pop of greater Victoria area is 380,000. slightly off

The job of the clinic is to get people in to see doctors. To get to the doctors you need triage (done by nurse). The fuck up points (clogs in the system) are registering and triage.

 

[80watts]

quick question - what is the max number a doctor is allowed to bill a day?

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

It’s time for the health care workers who are driving taxis and mopping out washrooms to be able to practice the professions they were trained to do. The population explosion from the million immigrants last year doesn’t help, another million and a half over the next couple of years is on its way. Time to build new hospitals and staff them with the immigrants if they have too, it’s ridiculous how stupid things are managed

 

[Cock Throppled]

We like to think Canada is a world leader in many things, including health care. The truth is, our system is an expensive, inefficient shambles.

People can’t get a family physician. If you have one, it can be weeks to get an appointment. Walk-in clinics fill up by early morning, and won’t accept any more. Usual wait times in ER’s are 6-8 hours. To receive actual treatment can be longer - even days, just to set a broken bone.

Seeing a specialist can be weeks to months, and then many months more for treatment. It’s why BC is sending cancer patients to Washington State for treatment. If that isn’t an indictment of our system, I don’t know what is.

The system has been trying to shut down the Cambie Clinic for years, and the Supreme Court refused to hear their argument for private care access. The same judges, and all federal employees who can freely access private care if they need it, that is denied the rest of us, (outside of Quebec, where private clinics are allowed.) More lunacy.

Our government even prevents BC residents from using private care. Anyone from outside the province, or the country can access the Cambie Clinic, but you can’t.

I don’t see the fairness, or logic of the government sending people out of country to get care they can’t get here, while at the same time denying people access to private care if they need it, and can pay for it. Isn’t every private treatment one less person in line for public care?

All the best systems in the world - Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Australia - use a combination of private and public health care access for citizens. Canada seems to be one of the few countries that actually, legally deny timely health care to its citizens.

AS the population ages, the system we have is only going to get more bogged down, and more expensive unless we adopt my flexible methods of providing care.

A friend is now in an 18-month wait for orthopaedic surgery, while in pain, and his condition getting worse. Quality of life, apparently doesn’t matter as long as the system is maintained.

Rant over.

 

[perbal rain]

My doctor dropped me because I wasn’t seeing him often enough. I phoned for an appointment and they told me.

That happened to me too. Fucking annoying, I spent two years trying to avoid seeing a doctor unless absolutely necessary because I didn't want to strain the medical system during covid, and thanks to those efforts I was dropped as a patient. I only found out when I tried to make an appointment last year.

 

[apl16]

We like to think Canada is a world leader in many things, including health care. The truth is, our system is an expensive, inefficient shambles.

People can’t get a family physician. If you have one, it can be weeks to get an appointment. Walk-in clinics fill up by early morning, and won’t accept any more. Usual wait times in ER’s are 6-8 hours. To receive actual treatment can be longer - even days, just to set a broken bone.

Seeing a specialist can be weeks to months, and then many months more for treatment. It’s why BC is sending cancer patients to Washington State for treatment. If that isn’t an indictment of our system, I don’t know what is.

The system has been trying to shut down the Cambie Clinic for years, and the Supreme Court refused to hear their argument for private care access. The same judges, and all federal employees who can freely access private care if they need it, that is denied the rest of us, (outside of Quebec, where private clinics are allowed.) More lunacy.

Our government even prevents BC residents from using private care. Anyone from outside the province, or the country can access the Cambie Clinic, but you can’t.

I don’t see the fairness, or logic of the government sending people out of country to get care they can’t get here, while at the same time denying people access to private care if they need it, and can pay for it. Isn’t every private treatment one less person in line for public care?

All the best systems in the world - Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Australia - use a combination of private and public health care access for citizens. Canada seems to be one of the few countries that actually, legally deny timely health care to its citizens.

AS the population ages, the system we have is only going to get more bogged down, and more expensive unless we adopt my flexible methods of providing care.

A friend is now in an 18-month wait for orthopaedic surgery, while in pain, and his condition getting worse. Quality of life, apparently doesn’t matter as long as the system is maintained.

Rant over.

Personally, I've had a shitty time trying to get my shoulder surgery.
It took 6 months to see a surgeon. He is in his 60's and doesn't do surgery anymore "wtf"!
He referred me to another guy that doesn't do that kind of surgery anymore. 'WTF" again!
It took 3 months to get in to see him.
Referred to another one. Another 3 months.
This guy is in his 40's and seemed quite good. Absolutely no bedside manner, but, that's ok because all I give a fuck about is that he knows what he is doing.
He told me the wait time was approximately 6 months. He also told me that my other shoulder would also need surgery, likely due to overuse of it because my first shoulder is such a mess.
I had my surgery 4 months later due to a cancelation.
Yay, I suppose.

I'm currently recovering from my surgery.

The interesting thing is that they called me recently to book surgery for my second surgery this month, which I had to decline due to not having recovered from the first surgery.

Can't imagine trying to do my physio while having the second surgery!

Hopefully it will be sorted out sometime this year.

This has definitely put a crimp in my pooning activities!

Best of luck to anyone trapped in the system

 

[Chuckerbie]

So why would doctors want to come to Cana da when they can make gobs of money in the states.

 

[westwoody]

So why would doctors want to come to Cana da when they can make gobs of money in the states.

One asian doctor said he preferred Canada over the US for quality of life.

 

[FreeG]

So why would doctors want to come to Cana da when they can make gobs of money in the states.

Because a few reasons, I'm sure:
- life isn't all about making 'gobs of money'; not EVERYONE enters medical world just to make money
- family, friends, etc.
- People DO love living in Canada for a variety of reasons.
- I moved up from the US; I would never move back. I'm sure there are others who feel like me, they'd never want to move to the US
- as bad as the Cdn system can be, the US system is far worse IMO with money driving every decision.
- Insurance decides what care you get (ultimately); doctor's may recommend one thing, it gets denied, then *poof*, you don't get any care. Medical care is ludicrously expensive - many examples online over the obscene costs for the most basic stuff (I remember seeing a charge for $45 for a bandage at one visit, insurance paid out $2.50, and the hospital had to accept that. But if I didn't have insurance, I'd be charged $45!)
- so instead of choosing what the best care is for a patient, doctors have to choose what care will be covered by insurance. If insurance covers a lot, they order a lot (which is wasteful use of the resources too). If insurance doesn't cover it, they don't get the care (regardless of need). Its fucked up IMO and NOT what I want my society to be about. Maybe some of you feel differently but in my view, health care is a right and is vital for the greater health and good of a society. Period.
- US doctors may make more (I don't know the stats) but Cdn doctors STILL make top 1% income, easily. I know a few doctors (GPs, specialists) and they are VERY comfortable - nicest neighborhoods, nicest gear, frequent trips overseas... They are most definitely NOT scraping by...

Back to original post: I do think the shortage is manufactured, but not intentionally, like "we're going to limit the doctors here in order to create a crisis <evil laugh>". More like "our vetting system protects us original doctors and we're not open-minded enough to accept outside doctors without going thru arcane rituals that WE had to go thru"; its a narrow-minded protectionist POV. BTW, the US is no different in many cases - 'reciprocity' does not apply for every state. So you might get licensed in one state but have to take a bunch of stupid courses to get licensed in another state (even with both having world-leading medical institutions).

 

[Pumped]

Like many things in life, change is inevitable but not without some pain. The current medical system came into being in the 1960's and basically ensured a lot of autonomy for a lot of doctors who wanted that freedom to 'practice' medicine as they saw fit.

We now have more women in the profession -- they want a life balance. Many men (and others) recognize the importance of life balance and don't want to operate under the old system. So, fewer hours, fewer patients seen and suddenly the pain arrives.

I've long advocated for putting all medical personnel on salary. Doctors bill the government, not patients, so what's the difference? They would get paid days off, holidays, sick time, a pension when they retire. Some will complain and leave -- bye-bye.

But we need to makes things easier, better and less bureaucratic. I came across the figure that a visit to emergency -- regardless of cause and result -- is over $1,000 in paperwork. We have nearly half of the funds for medical care going to administration.

You can't get surgery because of bureaucracy, not a shortage of personnel. In some places there is now a shortage of personnel, but that's also often because of the bureaucracy.

And while you want to blame old people for all these problems, I've been working and paying taxes for over 40 years -- paying for education, roads and yes, the training and support of doctors. You want to know who uses MORE resources? Kids. I would hope that after contributing productively for nearly half a fucking century that I would get some consideration to alleviate my pain and suffering in a timely manner.

Anyways, we could probably fire half the administration we have in our medical system, put doctors on salary, open up MORE hospital time for surgeries and other treatments and have it cost not much more than it does now and be more effective.

But we'd lose all those administrators ... hmmmm ...

 

[rlock]

C-36 is about prostitution.. what are you going on about?

He's mentioned the current Bill 36 (it is about health care) , not the federal Harper government C-36 from years ago, which was about prostitution.