I'm a pervert

[Sonny]

Sonny, can you show me in his comments anything that makes reference to intimidation. Maybe my eye sight is going but I certainly can't see anything close to that in his comments. In fact he is more worried about her responding violently than wanting to intimidate. But if I'm wrong, please correct me. As his reference as being a pervert to me, it's the fact he would like to precure sexual favours from his tenant, all of whom are attractive, that he suggests makes him a pervert, not that he's going to physically take these favours.

He wants to fuck her a few times and he is using the bounced cheque as leverage to do so. So what is this leverage exactly? He is the landlord and in a position of power. Even though you have pointed out that eviction may not be so easy, most tenants are not so knowledgeable as you and are fearful that they would lose their residence if they do not pay the rent. So it is this leverage of fear that is the intimidation element. Where else is his leverage? Why else would he feel he can approach her with a sexual proposal?

Why would any man assume that any woman is a closet SP and be willing to exchange sex for money, or in lieu of rent payment? The fellow has a serious perceptual problem. Putting aside actual SPs, just how many ordinary women would remotely welcome, or consider it acceptable, such a proposal? How many would consider such an action to be that of a sexual predator, to be an attempt at intimidation?

Just in case anyone suggests that I think she does not have a responsibility to pay her rent every month, of course she does. Whether the bounced cheque was a timing issue or money mismanagement issue, she needs to pay the landlord her rent and also any NSF charges he incurred. For most folks that means moving money from another account or borrowing the money from friends or family, not the dirty landlord making lurid suggestions.

 

[kalel]

wow, my first reply of "it's not what you do it's what they can prove" was meant as more than just a tenant and her landlord. i was making implications about how certain criminals get jailtime for small crimes and often bigger crimes get no jail time (like the liberal guy last year who screwed with public money and not only didn't get jail time but got a severance package with no conditions of paying back the money he misused).

as for tenants and landlords i've seen enough lowlife trashbag ho's and deadbeat guys who abuse the privelage of being a tenant according to certain laws in this province that i could care less about what happens. fuck, i couldn't walk out of superstore with groceries and expect to pay them a week later, why is rent any different. if she has difficult circumstances then it's sad but i say that each person is fully responsible for what happens to them - situations may arise from stuff that's not their fault but it's still their responsibily to deal with it. banks fuck desperate people over all the time by giving them higher interest rates to keep them in debt but do they ever get arrested for preying on the desperate? fuck no, because the laws don't prohibit what they do. i know i'm comparing legal financial issues with something simple like tenant/landlord issues but where does one draw the line with what's good screwing and bad screwing?

as for name calling imrochard, i could care less. i'm not calling you any names cuz i don't know you and other than you getting all bent out of shape for others sharing opinions that differ from yours i see no reason to do so. your daughter should be so lucky to meet somebody like me, because despite my words to a horny landlord on what he can do, i work damn hard at what i do and help people live healthier longer lives and i teach them to be responsible instead of claiming the victim role when life kicks them. now on the other hand i don't have alot of sympathy for people who are in bad situations and choose to do nothing about it.

bottom line, if you don't like the situation you're in change it. when you're tired of people screwing you over change it. but don't expect anybody or any corporation to show you sympathy and not manipulate you because the socialistic attitude which is so prevalent in this province probably won't protect you all the way.

 

[souljacker]

Show me where the law disagrees with me.

Courts would consider it coersion. That turns the sex into rape. Rape is illegal.

First of all, I've always used the word consenting, meaning she willingly agrees. Show me where I said anywhere that she never had the option to say no.

Oh, I totally understand that. The problem is that in a situation like that there's no way of knowing for sure if she realized that she had the option to say no. And that is what a court would look at. If she truly is willing, as in she offers it without being asked, or without any hints, then I don't see anything at all morally wrong with it. It's still a bad idea, though, because she could later claim that she was coerced into it even though she wasn't.

And it seems to me you're reaching down to the bottom of the barrel degraded SP's by saying "you're just another customer to her" meaning what? she would willing have sex with you if money wasn't involved. Maybe she's a drug addict in need of a fix, or maybe she's just trying to feed her kids, does that mean she's conducting this activity under her own free will?

You're reading way too much into that comment. What it means is simply that you're a customer to her, so she has no inherent fear of any consequences should she choose not to make that particular transaction.

Perhaps you see a huge difference in these two scenarios but I don't.

OK, let me provide an alternate scenario which doesn't involve sex, but which will illustrate the difference for you.

Imagine you're an art dealer. You have a valuable painting which you would like to sell for $5K. A customer comes to you and offers you $4K for it. YOu might accept, or you might not. The point is that you have no reasonable fear of adverse consequences if refuse.

Now imagine you're not in the business of selling art, but you happen to own a valuable painting worth $5K. Somebody whom you know to be a powerful mobster comes to you and offers you $1K for it. You have no choice but to accept the offer, since you have a reasonable fear of adverse consequences if you refuse.

That's the difference between coersion and consent. My example is more extreme than the landlord-tennant situation, but it's the same legal and moral concept.

There might be some merit to this point it's hard to say cause you're talking about someone's perception, not their reality.

Perceptions are exactly what sexual assault and rape cases are about. What the courts look at is whether the alleged victim would have a reasonable perception that she had to say yes.

The fact is I'm a landlord and I've gone through the RTO and the arbitration process and let me explain a couple of things. Firstly, a landlord can't simply kick someone out because they don't like them. They need valid reasons. Secondly the tenant can always challenge anything the landlords wants to do. Thirdly the landlord also has responsibilities set out in the RTO to make the place inhabitable etc. I would sumit you actually go on that site read a little bit about who's responsible for what before deciding there's some kind of power difference between the two parties. There may be a perception that there is, but in reality if anyone has the upper hand in this relationship it's the tenant.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. The point is that a significant number of renters, possibly even the majority, are not fully aware of what landlords can and cannot do, and there are plenty of landlords out there who take full advantage of that ignorance. Aside from that, even if the tennant is aware of his/her rights and the landlord's restrictions, if a tennant pisses off a landlord, that landlord can very easily find ways to make the tennant's life a pain without breaking the law, or can start watching the tennant extremely closely in order to find a legal excuse to evict him/her.

 

[Sonny]

How many woman get propositioned at bars every week? Is everyone who propositions a woman in a bar now considered a sexual predator?

Bars are a meet-market where sexual liaisons are part of the milieu, and everyone knows and accepts this. The relations between a landlord and tenant are a completely different environment.

"As to your question of why any man would assume that any woman is a closet SP and be willing to exchange sex for money or in lieu of rent payment"

I don't really know, but I do know someone who placed an add on CL and he's now seeing a girl a couple of times a month and she sees only him, so it happens. So obviously these girls become SP somehow and for some reason.

Placing a general ad on an open forum is a very different situation, a general invitation, without the presence of already existent landlord/tenant situation, to anyone who wants to participate in such an exchange. No coercion or intimidation in this case. I wager the percentage of women willing to make such an exchange is quite small, but certainly there are some who are willing. That does not make valid an assumption that all women are closet SPs.

But you're right about the perception problem. Part of the answer is likely that when you hang around this site and see SP's on a regular basis you can easily loose perspective as to how the general population acts and thinks.

Agreed.

Further, Perberts do not really know much about the personal lives of SPs. While a small number of SPs may, the SPs I know socially would never exchange sex for rent. The reason is not just because of the nasty complications of such an arrangement, but because they clearly separate work life from personal life, the latter which is lived much like any other woman.

 

[souljacker]

Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that the original poster's intent actually was to coerce his tennant into having sex with him. I think he was just being a dirty pervert who saw a possible opportunity to get laid, in a way that's right out of a porno, and didn't think about the implications. Since I'm sure that everyone on this board is probably a dirty pervert who has watched too much porn, I think that deep down we can all relate to that!

Also, I hope that I didn't come off as being too judgemental in this thread. I fully understand why some people might not see the potential for coersion at first, I was really just attempting to show that the potential most definitely exists.

 

[souljacker]

While I'm not sure whether the courts would consider this situation a power difference and potentially a form of coersion if she voluntarily agreed to this arrangement, your response was well thought out and appreciated. It seems this issue isn't the real power between a tenant and a landlord, rather it's the perception that the landlord has more power than he actually does. Valid point.

Exactly. Hey, look at that, we had a civilized discussion in which we both expressed our opinions clearly and coherently, there was no name-calling, and we respected each other's opinions! What the hell? What board am I on here?!?

 

[nube]

Exactly. Hey, look at that, we had a civilized discussion in which we both expressed our opinions clearly and coherently, there was no name-calling, and we respected each other's opinions! What the hell? What board am I on here?!?

I agree, I enjoyed the discussion even if we read a lot into the original poster's comments. You know I would probably THINK of the same as he was, but at least he had the wherewithall to ask for a second opinion - many wouldn't. Have a good weekend

 

[Bartdude]

That people would think this lady would possibly consider an offer of sex for rent shows how distored our perceptions of women can get on PERB. A sobering thought, actually.

Suggesting she could fuck you in exchange for rent - with a bounced cheque already in the mix - is clearly coercion.

It's not only illegal. It's morally repugnant.

 

[Bartdude]

So, bartdude, what if she's an SP already, had an ad out saying "$100 bbbj - I need to make rent" on craigslist (we've all seen a few of those recently) and MJ turns out to be her landlord? Is he still bad to want to fuck her?

If he is, can he pm me her number?

BTW, talking about distorted, I like the tits on that girl in your post on the bottom left. Those are some nicely distorted ta-ta's.

Um - if she were an SP (and remember, in terms of the total population, there's only a fraction of a chance that she is), obviously she willingly exchanges sex for money. BTW, "need to make rent" claims are almost always BS, and meant to make the SP look more normal.

The difference is, if the woman is not an SP, she is obviously probably NOT in favour of exchanging sex for money - and the suggestion is likely repugnant to her. To suggest that she could offer sex to make up for a bounced rent cheque could easily, and justifiably be seen as an attempt by a landlord - who is in the upper deck of a power-based relationship here - to extort.

I'm not debating these issues any more. If the woman brings it up, game's on. But a landlord, in an unequal power relationship, seeking sex for rent is acting unethically.

BTW - bottom left is nextdoornikki....yum

 

[necko]

You be Fucked

If this guy suggest 's to the young that they can take care of the bounced rent cheque with sex and she refuses,and shes smart enough to have a witness or better still tapes the conversation, she'll never have to pay rent again as matter of fact in the states she end up owning the building but I bet in Vancouver she'd get a least a year or two free rent boy would he be fucked GFE all the way baby probably get some money to pay for that councilling she'd need etc etc.

 

[expedition]

So she sleeps with him and he forgets the rent. Next month same thing. Month after that? Why not.

THen she tells him to hump himself to death month after that.

Then what? He's not going to be able to do eviction proceedings then ... not unless he wants to explain what sort of payment wasn't being made. And why this tenant was offered different payment options than the other tenants ... including the 300lb hairy biker dude.

He wants to give a hot chick money she can use to pay her rent in return for sex? Well what does he think he's doing when he see's an escort? Same deal only he doesn't have to see her everyday if something goes wrong and it doesn't compromise his job.

 

[kylle]

I am in the same situation!

I also have a hot tenant that is late on the rent. 2 months late at the moment. She tends to give me money when she has it. She is consistently 1 or two months behind. I give her more slack than I should because she is smoking HOT.

I have ran through every scenario that has been posted in my head. Including how many times she would have to put out to be worth a month's rent. I would say 4 or 5 for a month. I have a feeling that she, or any other girl in her position that is not an SP, would think once would cover it.

In the end I think it is obviously a horrible idea to even bring it up. I am married and the blackmail / lawsuit aspect of a proposition like that is just not worth it.

I plan on giving her the boot this spring when it is easier to find a suitable replacement.

Kyle

 

[john23]

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread so someone may have suggested this already. (Warning: totally impractical suggestion...) Suggest that she do a porn movie. You could even do an impromptu version of "Big Brother."

Pluses: you don't have to be involved in it except as a producer. Typically these movies make arount $30K to $40K so you won't have to worry about rent for a while. It will most likely gain some notoriety so it might make even more .... and of course, you can whack off to your hearts content knowing that nothing is going to happen to you. There is even a remote chance that she'll become super famous in which case you won't have to worry about bounced cheques from her again

 

[Juggy]

Should of seen this coming...

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/ers/234052508.html

 

[kalel]

just think of how many sp's became sp's to "make rent" or "pay for food".

 

[kalel]

dude, you just made my point, let's hope you see that and if you don't i hope YOU aren't raising any children.

my point was that in this case the landlord is trying to coerce her into the act but how many sp's out there do what they do because they saw the day they couldn't make rent and decided to go out and do this without the landlord twisting their arm but needed $$$$$$ fast? my comments weren't to say it's okay, but to illustrate that the end result is often the same, even if the means to get there were different.

if you want to remain on your moral high horse, then why don't you get off of perb, and help all the desperate women out there make their rent, or find lending sources to help them against "bad" landlords out there. it's getting abit boring having you attack other's opinions because you either don't agree or can't comprehend them. and it's getting boring having you make references to children. you've got a daughter and you should focus on giving her the best life you can. for the record i've got a child and nobody doubts my ability to teach him anything.

 

[kalel]

I've got a daughter, as do many men in our society. However, I do question your ability to raise your child if you can't comprehend the immorality of the proposal you are supporting.

i suppose you would be deeply offended if somebody made a reference to your daughter working the trade, but think about the sp's you've been with, are they not somebody's daugther? paying for a willing participant in your mind is perfectly right, well if your daughter chose to be willing would you be okay with her being an sp? i bet you wouldn't. before you go ragging on other people's morals stop trading your money for the company of somebody else's daughters, that is, if you want to be a morally sound man.

this thread started as a guy who simply had the hots for his tenant and his perversion led to the question. i simply implied that if he really wanted to he probably could. but then again maybe i'm tired of too many deadbeats in this province playing the victim role instead of living up to their responsibilities and claiming the rights the law allows them. in most situations of landlords vs tenants i will probably side with the landlords just because the socialist laws in this province give too much freedom to the lazy. now i don't know the situations of either the landlord or tenant in this scenario so i don't attach myself to the question too much. but you seem to get bent out of shape when somebody doesn't agree with you. if you haven't gotten thru to me by now what makes you think that typing in all caps will? you can quit insulting my ability to be a parent because i'll probably raise my boy to be "the steamroller, not the pavement". you can raise your daughter however you like - not my place to tell you how to do it.

 

[necko]

If I was the girl I would tell my boyfriend/big brother/father about it and they would know how to handle the landlord in a dark alley

Why settle for a few lumps when u could own his ass, gotta look at the big picture

 

[kalel]

okay, that actually made me laugh. are you mad cuz i made a reference to your daughter being given the freedom of choice to be an sp? don't be, you lash out at me, i lash back at you.

3 things:

1) if that ever happened i'd tell the bank to take the house, cuz i could always find a basement to live in. then when i'm late on my rent i could tell the landlord to go fuck himself cuz he can't kick me out just yet. us tenants have rights.

2) it would never happen cuz i make sure i have a reserve to cover emergencies so i don't get screwed. i also don't blow my paycheque on liquor or cigarettes or other frivelous things. you see, i come from the side of the world that's used to making 5 year olds work so when they come to north america and work their asses off they can surpass that ugly word called "average".

and

3) if anybody's gonna be doing the screwing it's me. i might be seen as a bully, but i make sure i cover home base before i start worrying about the misfortunes of others. now, that may have came out wrong, i do what i can for the underprivelaged but like i said before i don't have time to be sympathetic to the needs of the lazy or those who don't bother helping themselves.

 

[hardup]

ROTFLMAO
Here I was being chastized because I referred to an SP as a "whore" and then I read through this thread and I'm aghast. What you guys are discussing is reprehensible, plain and simple. I'm sure MJ's big head has taken over by now and the rest of you are discussing the moral implications for your own reasons only.

By the way I think kalel is my ex-wifes divorce lawyer