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How long does it take to beat a suspect in Vancouver?

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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How long does it take to beat a suspect in Vancouver?

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...-does-it-take-to-beat-a-suspect-in-vancouver/


How long does it take to assault someone? Common sense would tell you as long as it takes to lash out with a foot or fist. The Vancouver Police Department, however, seems to measure time differently.

On Wednesday, a man robbed a Vancouver sex shop of cash and merchandise. He then apparently tried to hijack a car, but the female driver escaped and called police, who located and arrested the suspect, a Ryan James Felton. He was handcuffed and set down on the curb while police apparently decided what to do with him (he was eventually transported to a local hospital and treated for a drug overdose, before being released and charged with robbery). While the police are talking, the man, clearly disoriented, is reeling from side to side. There seems to be some shouting between Mr. Felton and the officers. A plainclothes police officer then kicks Mr. Felton in the chest, knocking him over with a cry of pain. The other police officers standing around appear surprised, but do nothing.

In what’s become a familiar story, the incident came to light because it was caught on film. A producer for CBC Vancouver had his camera running and captured the moment when the officer kicked the handcuffed Mr. Felton. It needs to be made very clear that the suspect was entirely subdued — his hands were cuffed behind his back, he was sitting nearly naked on the ground, surrounded by five men, including at least one confirmed plainclothes officer and two uniformed officers. If one wanted to find a textbook definition of a suspect who was no longer a threat, Mr. Felton would be a fair place to start.

The Vancouver Police, when confronted by the video, promised immediate action. The officer seen kicking the suspect, who is unnamed but said to be a 10-year veteran of the force, has been removed from operational duties and an investigation into the incident has been launched. But Const. Lindsey Houghton, speaking on behalf of the force at a Thursday night press conference, cautioned the media and the public not to rush to judgment.

“The video is extremely brief — it’s only six seconds long,” he said. “It’s a very short snapshot of the entire incident. From the time the robbery took place to the time the man was taken to the hospital was several minutes in length, so six seconds is not a lot of time.”

No. By almost any standard, six seconds is not a lot of time. But exactly how long does it take a person to kick a helpless man? Less than six seconds.

The entire incident highlights yet again the profound disconnect between how the police would react to an incident committed against one of their own by a member of the public, and incident committed by one of their own against that very same public. Imagine, for instance, a CBC producer filming a verbal altercation between a police officer and a civilian, during which the civilian lashes out and strikes the officer.

That civilian would be immediately arrested and charged with whatever the Crown thought would stick. Assault, certainly. Resisting arrest, most likely. Other charges would be likely depending on the circumstances. And you can rest assured the other police officers standing around wouldn’t simply watch with surprise without taking any action. And it wouldn’t matter to the police, not one bit, that the video only showed six seconds of the incident. The civilian striking a police officer would be enough.

And rightfully so. Kicking or punching another person, when not under threat, is an attack. This isn’t hard. The fact that we are absent the context of the entire incident is irrelevant — the apparent crime was the blow itself, not everything before it, and therefore the blow is what needed be established. Six seconds is more than enough to establish that the suspect was handcuffed and on the ground when assaulted, or, in other words, was not a threat.

The Vancouver Police Department will of course conduct their investigation into the incident, as they must. It is highly probable that some action will be taken against the officer who struck Mr. Felton. But that will not be enough to address the bigger issue here. That several other police officers watched the entire incident without interfering, and that the Vancouver Police think the video doesn’t speak for itself, clearly shows the double standard that exists when crimes are allegedly committed by law enforcement officers. The rest of us would be blessed indeed to enjoy the benefit of that much doubt.
 
Mar 10, 2011
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To save the us tax payers from putting this scumbag thru the system , at huge cost , to have him put back onto the street to rob again ,
its too bad they dont have the power to take him behind a dumpster and really kick the shit out of him. Then toss him into the dumpster where he belongs.
I cant believe all the bleeding hearts.....
this fukker is a lowlife addict that will and would have cut the throats of the poor girls working in the store if they had not cooperated.
probably has a rap sheet a mile long and is growing braver with each hold up.
3 strikes and ur out....
put yourself in the shoes of the poor people that were mentally assulted by his hold up actions......
oh , the poor boy was probably abused as a child , so he has a right to do drugs and rob people......
 

mik

Banned
Dec 25, 2004
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You said it, goo! I don't blame the police for being absolutely fed up with our BS justice system that lets these guys right back on the street over and over....... I say beat them up enough so that they remember it before they do it again.

These lowlife scum know that there are no consequences to their actions and their lawyers know how to play the system, too.

The police used to automatically put these guys in rehab until the human rights idiots whined and complained. The result? They don't get any help and the endless cycle continues; we all become victims one way or another. Who hasn't been the victim of at least a property crime?

Those who disagree are more than welcome to take these people into their own homes and rehabilitate them.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
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We can't have police beat up suspects willy nilly, but I can see the frustration of having to deal with the same losers over and over that take up resources, terrorize people, cause mayhem in society, cost money, refuse to try to help themselves and generally are dangers to themselves and others.

This guy probably falls down and injures himself more every day while stoned than that kick would hurt him, but that's not the point. As tempting as it would be (and I'd gladly boot that fucker after what he did) the police have to be above that kind of shit.

BUT, there would be a lot less temptation to do those kinds of things if the police saw and thought the courts backed them up. I'm willing to bet that douche, as dangerous as he is probably never does any jail time and goes around and around the system.
 

myselftheother

rubatugtug
Dec 2, 2004
1,275
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vancouver
To save the us tax payers from putting this scumbag thru the system , at huge cost , to have him put back onto the street to rob again ,
its too bad they dont have the power to take him behind a dumpster and really kick the shit out of him. Then toss him into the dumpster where he belongs.
I cant believe all the bleeding hearts.....
this fukker is a lowlife addict that will and would have cut the throats of the poor girls working in the store if they had not cooperated.
probably has a rap sheet a mile long and is growing braver with each hold up.
3 strikes and ur out....
put yourself in the shoes of the poor people that were mentally assulted by his hold up actions......
oh , the poor boy was probably abused as a child , so he has a right to do drugs and rob people......
Right on, goo...sorry Bijou, but you're barking up the wrong tree. This piece of shit robbed a store at knife point, ran out and tried to carjack a woman out in the street, violent and psychotic....cops arrest him, and all he gets is a boot in the chest. The terror he just caused, the trauma he just victimized these regular everyday people because of his 'issues', then was probably badmouthing the cops, struggling, etc. A boot to the chest to put him down, to keep him under control...he got off lightly, so far. Would you feel so warm hearted and inclined towards this piece of shit if he just robbed you at knifepoint, or tried to carjack you? Would you feel so inclined as to give him a 'pass' on this if it happened to you, or feel indignant that the cops were a bit rough if you were just as victimized and traumatized by this creep? I agree that the police must exercise a high level of professionalism, but really...this is a non-starter. Good on him, and the size 12 boot print.
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
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Whenever I see threads like this on Perb I always wonder if the OP would feel the same way if she was in this POS presence while the crime was taking place?

Would she still be sympathetic to the poor downtrodden addict, equipped with a knife, threatening everyone around him or would they actually thank the VPD for taking this guy down without shooting him?

Seems to be a lot of support for the losers who do property damage, smash bus windows, carry weapons and threaten innocent people while there is little support for the people who actually put their lives on the line to protect the citizens at large.

Oh I know, they all want to give this person a hug, put them in rehab, put them through a job training program and throw in free accommodation to boot.
 

sexytime

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Apr 18, 2009
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I wouldn't have worded it exactly like Goo, but I see his point and lean towards this side.

If a criminal feels that he can walk all over other peoples' human rights, damage their sense of safety and take from hard-working businesses, then why should the average citizen care that he should still have the same rights and dignities which they do? I certainly don't care if he isn't treated like a human being while he is acting like an animal.

I do find it unprofessional for law enforcement officers to just act out whenever they feel disgusted by a scumbag and decide for themselves whether he deserves a hard boot. However, this is something I can live with as opposed to pampering those who don't contribute to society, repeating myself, giving them equal rights and the same dignities which they have stripped from their victims. I believe that violent criminals who are caught in the act should be stripped down to a very basic and minimal sub-set of human rights, because rights should be a privilege to those who deserve it.
 

the old maxx50

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Dec 22, 2010
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WE have police so we don't have vigilantes law ,, The way some of you talk , it seem like what you want .. but i doubt if you would be out there beating the crap out of these criminal.. Most people won't. or can't ..because they know the difference between what is right and wrong and how to treat people .. ,even if they are the scum of the earth ..

Now when the police can no longer hold them selves back ,, from exacting what they think is fair justice of a suspect ,, they then all so start treating society with contempt too.. The police officer has a job .. investigate crimes , arrest suspects , and stop the criminals from continuing a crime spree by enforcing the law,, But they are not the prosecutor , judge or jury ...

If they can't do the job , or think it is an excuse to take their anger out on subdued , handcuffed suspects , then there should be an investigation ,, and maybe they are not suited for the job any more .

Don't ever accept that some one should have less rights .. because you may find your self unwittingly as a suspect in a crime one day ..

As has been shown many time you don't have to be a criminal running from a robbery ,, just being in the wrong place like a unruly crown out side a pub and you can find your self , beaten to the ground by well meaning police officer ...???
 

sexytime

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Apr 18, 2009
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Don't ever accept that some one should have less rights .. because you may find your self unwittingly as a suspect in a crime one day ..
I have received a form of physical assault from an officer over a crime which I didn't commit, because he found incriminating material during an illegal search. Given at that time in my life (I had a troubled youth) there were many crimes I've gotten away with, I really had no right to complain about it and it would be foolish of me to expect anyone to take pity - and in fact if anyone did they would be the true fools. Sure, I didn't deserve it in context of the crime being investigated but I deserved it in general and I think the officer knew this in his gut.

I do see your point though, were someone to be truly innocent and to be assaulted by an officer - now that would be appalling, which is why I don't agree with the professionalism aspect of this incident. However, that doesn't change the fact of how I feel about people who are actually guilty; they don't deserve privileges that society has to offer until they have paid off their debt to society. Besides if you can't take a kick in the chest, you really shouldn't be in the violent crimes business - unless you want to take cowardice to the next level.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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You guys are hilarious. Yah, let's throw the rule of law out the window. Who wants to be a civilized society anymore? Or democratic for that matter! Way overrated. While we're at it, who needs courts? Judges and lawyers are overpaid, so let's just get rid of 'em and let the police decide on the spot how they want to handle someone who commits a crime. Who needs to go through a long legal process when cops can simply give those criminals what they deserve. They can decide what's appropriate right on the spot (well, on ce the suspect is immobilized and subdued, of course!). Lets provide them with a few different weapons and allow them to decide whether the suspect deserves a punch, a kick, a baseball bat, metal bar or a shot in the back of the head. Let's look the other way if they think the process should be drawn out, more painful than a simple shot in the head. Let's embrace and take pride in our return to barbarian times!! Who doesn't want to live in a world of savages? I can't wait!!!!




Don't ever accept that some one should have less rights .. because you may find your self unwittingly as a suspect in a crime one day ..
But maxx50, don't you know it could NEVER happen to them? They're simply better, superior and different from that sort of scum. They're immune to this, especially if they're white, middle class or above and middle age or older!!! There's no way it could never happen to them. And if it happens to you, then the police felt you deserved it so it goes without saying that clearly you deserve it.
 

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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But some of them will still re-offend. Better that when, in the judgement of the officer on the scene, a suspect is apprehended for shoplifting the officer just shoots them in the back of the head and leave their corpse lying in the street as a warning to other possible criminals. Think of the savings on the cost of court time & the wear & tear on police officers knuckles. Vagrants, speeders, folks that park a couple of inches too far from the curb. There are so many criminals out there that will just offend and offend and offend again.
Haha I hadn't read this before replying. Seems you've got it figured out. I like your style.lol
 

JClay

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Jun 21, 2007
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"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by the treatment of its prisoners."

To borrow from Con Air, Dostoevsky said that, after doing a little time...
 

blazejowski

Panty Connoisseur
Dec 20, 2004
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These pieces of shit get coddled in their jail cells, and the jokes that call themselves judges hand out nothing but slaps on the wrists, while they just end up back on the street to re-offend months later. Hang 'em high is what I say....
 

JClay

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Jun 21, 2007
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Better yet, let's just nip things in the bud, y'know - pull out the weed before it takes root. So if you're young, male, part of a visible minority and living under the poverty line, well...
 

sexytime

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Apr 18, 2009
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Nobody wants another tragedy like Rodney King, or in Canada, another J.J. Harper to happen. Or at least I hope nobody does.

The fact is that law enforcement is imperfect, but the same goes for the court and prison system. It is all imperfect, or even greatly flawed, but I am glad to live in a country where we have it as good as we do. We're probably not best example in the world, but we don't chop hands for stealing or cane people, nor hang them.

Sure, it's good to point out about LE being unprofessional, but a lot of people will refuse to feel sorry for this guy and I don't think there's anything savage about that. I think most peoples' fantasies about an eye-for-an-eye type of world is due to frustration of seeing too much lenience and repeat offences. I can agree with you Bijou, that order is necessary, but even with order and doing everything the right way justice still doesn't always get served. (justice and law are not synonymous and will never have a 1:1 parity)

In a 'civil' society we can just keep locking up high-risk repeat rapists and molesters and robbers for a few months or years at a time and let them go until they victimize another. Now if a dog bites someone, it must be euthanized. I'm not saying that humans' lives are worth any more or any less than dogs', and am not going to start on capital punishment, but a kick in the chest isn't so bad now is it?

"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by the treatment of its prisoners."

To borrow from Con Air, Dostoevsky said that, after doing a little time...
I appreciate some of Dostoyevsky's works, but those were different times, in a harsh country. Needless to say, they didn't have LCD televisions in their cells back then.
 

Miss*Bijou

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Nov 9, 2006
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I have received a form of physical assault from an officer over a crime which I didn't commit, because he found incriminating material during an illegal search. Given at that time in my life (I had a troubled youth) there were many crimes I've gotten away with, I really had no rht to complain about it and it would be foolish of me to expect anyone to take pity - and in fact if anyone did they would be the true fools. Sure, I didn't deserve it in context of the crime being investigated but I deserved it in general and I think the officer knew this in his gut.

Thing is, you're missing the point. This has nothing to do with what you or anyonthinks you deserve or didn't deserve. It has nothing to do with expecting to receive or receiving pity. All of that is 100% irrelevant.

The actual point and the issue is that in a society that strives to be democratic, we have an agreement with law enforcement where in exchange for allowing them the power to do their jobs to protect the rest of us, they agree to abide byto a set of conditions and LAWS. (One of which forbids use of excessive or unnecessary force - see BC Police Act)







I do see your point though, were someone to be truly innocent and to be assaulted by an officer - now that would be appalling, which is why I don't agree with the professionalism aspect of this incident. However, that doesn't change the fact of how I feel about people who are actually guilty; they don't deserve privileges that society has to offer until they have paid off their debt to society. Besides if you can't take a kick in the chest, you really shouldn't be in the violent crimes business - unless you want to take cowardice to the next level.

Just wondering...when you say cowardice, do you mean....kind of like kicking in the chest someone who is cuffed with his hands behind his back? That sort of cowardice?


So essentially your opinion is that if the suspect is innocent, the police should follow the law but if the suspect is guilty, they should get to ignore the law? Is that correct?

And since the suspect hasn't had his time in any court yet, I assume its up to the police officers to determine his or her guilt on the spot. This pretty much rules out ever following the law because why would the police bother arresting someone they believe is innocent? We can reasonably assume or expect that if the police are making an arrest, they believe the person is guilty and therefore his or her guilt allows the officers to ignore the law every time.

So basically, your opinion is that the law doesn't apply to police officers, apparently even laws specific to them?

Finally - Is that limited to this type only (use of force), or do you think police officers should be allowed to ignore any law they decide? Just curious how that all works...?
 
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sexytime

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Apr 18, 2009
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Please do not twist my opinion from these assumptions. My opinion is what I wrote, and I never wrote that we don't need courts; I'm not as barbaric as you envision me to be. My views on the system are on the next post.

Maybe your point has nothing to do with pity or sympathy but the first thing that comes to my mind, and some of the other readers apparently, is whether we feel any pity for the guy. The article fails to point out the severity of what the writer sees as the "real problem" before telling a story so by the time anyone is finished reading about the incident they could care less about what happened to him. Not a very effective approach now is it? The writer also says the man did do these things, not that he was suspected, so he has already lost the half of his audience who doesn't care about the guilty.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
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Please do not twist my opinion from these assumptions. My opinion is what I wrote, and I never wrote that we don't need courts; I'm not as barbaric as you envision me to be. My views on the system are on the next post.

Maybe your point has nothing to do with pity or sympathy but the first thing that comes to my mind, and some of the other readers apparently, is whether we feel any pity for the guy. The article fails to point out the severity of what the writer sees as the "real problem" before telling a story so by the time anyone is finished reading about the incident they could care less about what happened to him. Not a very effective approach now is it?
I asked you to confirm my understanding of your comments. Don't get mad at me if the conclusion does not appeal to you.


As for the pity part, what you're saying is that many of you are making emotional judgment and dismissing the option of using practical, legal and logical facts.

And some like to claim that women are too emotional and can't leave their emotions out of their decision-making or opinion-making process. Ha!

(Actually its been proven men are just as emotional decision makers as women because emotions are important to make good decisions - so I'm just teasing.)
 

sexytime

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Apr 18, 2009
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(Actually its been proven men are just as emotional decision makers as women because emotions are important to make good decisions - so I'm just teasing.)
Yes, I have seen a male judge give out a sentence to the guy before my hearing, just after adding that the crime was committed near his neighbourhood or something to that effect. So obviously emotional, and unprofessional by definition that justice is blind.

There are many problems all across the entire system, and honestly I couldn't make it any better or even one that works at all were I to design it myself. Given this, I can live with the current state of affairs and dream about things in my favour, with indifference to some of the indiscretions which occasionally make the news.
 

JClay

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Jun 21, 2007
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Unless they go off me, or someone I care about. You, I don't care about. That sounds fair, right? Maybe we can extend the same right to the armed forces? Guy comes back all fucked up, has a moment and kills his wife and kids - No Big Deal. It's a stressful job - people make mistakes, right?

Or we could perhaps unrealistically expect people in these sorts of positions to, oh I don't know, be held to a somewhat higher standard. You know, the whole responsibility shtick that people these days seem to enjoy abdicating.
 
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