How likely is it that AMPs employ trafficked women?

[needtomilk]

I've been to Gateway Spa (Surrey), Blue Ocean (New Westminster), QT Esthetic (Burnaby), Citi Health Studio (Surrey), etc.

A lot of them hire Asians with broken English.

Someone brought to my attention (online, not in person) that maybe these ladies are trafficked. It was brought up after a flame war on the Internet. But flamewar or not, damn, it did get me thinking.

How likely that may be the case?

 

[blakealridge]

There’s a really racist stereotype that asian women who can’t speak English well are often trafficked. It’s simply not true. If you’re from abroad and want to make some money it’s a good job, and working for someone who’s able to screen and take bookings for you is super helpful.

 

[emacky]

I can't 100% say for sure, but from what I've read, a lot of women who go to AMPs go there for the safety and security vs working from an incall location. Even the women I met from incalls that moved to AMPs prefer it. I think they generally have more control of their working hours and move around if they like.

Also, most women I've met that come here from Asia come here because of the opportunity for quick money for under a year of work to pay off debts, etc. I think those who end up staying here don't improve their financial situation enough to be able to leave or transition back to a civilian job. Plus this is Vancouver and not in the middle of hicktown USA, where if someone is brought here against their will, there's a high chance they'll meet someone who speaks their language and can get them out of that situation. You'd have to be going to a really dodgy incall location or SW to meet a trafficed girl.

I think the biggest issue the women come across working here is empty promises their bosses make. Not all make the money they hope, or they're not properly taught so they can succeed, or they just work at a less than reputable boss. I mean here, all it takes are a few bad reviews and we avoid them like the plague. I'm sure they'll still make money, but might have to deal with people they'd rather not or mostly stick with Asian clients who advertise on Asian websites only.

 

[johnnydepth]

Trafficked? I'm sure there might be a few, but probably not a lot. Forced into it, something different. Asian culture (overseas) is very different from what we experience in the West. Even if you travel in Asian countries you really won't pick up on it, but live there for a while and you will realize women are treated very differently than men. Doesn't really matter the country, China, Korea, Philippines, etc.. (maybe not Japan).
I've been on Chautbate for a while and I'm fairly convinced there are ladies working on their that are trafficked. I think there are also a few that might be underage. I have no idea how hard it is to monitor a site like that.

 

[blakealridge]

Trafficked? I'm sure there might be a few, but probably not a lot. Forced into it, something different. Asian culture (overseas) is very different from what we experience in the West. Even if you travel in Asian countries you really won't pick up on it, but live there for a while and you will realize women are treated very differently than men. Doesn't really matter the country, China, Korea, Philippines, etc.. (maybe not Japan).
I've been on Chautbate for a while and I'm fairly convinced there are ladies working on their that are trafficked. I think there are also a few that might be underage. I have no idea how hard it is to monitor a site like that.

"forced into it" is the literal definition of trafficking...?????

 

[MissingOne]

"forced into it" is the literal definition of trafficking...?????

"Forced" can have many meanings. If a woman can't make enough money where she is, so she makes a personal decision to come to Canada in hope of earning more, we might say she was forced by her financial circumstances, but I wouldn't say that trafficking was a factor.

On the other hand, if somebody says "you owe me money, so you have to go to Canada to settle your debt", then tells her where she has to work, controls her money and maybe holds her passport, then that's a pretty good description of trafficking.

There are probably many shades of grey between those two end members.

I remember chatting with an AMP woman whom I quite like. She'd been in Canada for about ten years and as near as I could tell was in control of her life. One day I was talking about myself working to earn enough money to retire. Just making conversation, I asked when she planned to retire. Her response was "Oh, I can never retire!". One could read a lot of different meanings into that. It left me wondering.

 

[Bde]

It has always made me wonder why and how so many in our society will (rightly) go on about the evils of sex trafficking and like abuses, yet will absolutely stomp their feet like a child when the prospect of legalizing sex work is brought up. The types that proclaim they cherish "all lives" but refuse to enact actual protection come across to me as those who would grab your hands and smack your face while asking "Why are you hitting yourself?"

 

[blakealridge]

"Forced" can have many meanings. If a woman can't make enough money where she is, so she makes a personal decision to come to Canada in hope of earning more, we might say she was forced by her financial circumstances, but I wouldn't say that trafficking was a factor.

On the other hand, if somebody says "you owe me money, so you have to go to Canada to settle your debt", then tells her where she has to work, controls her money and maybe holds her passport, then that's a pretty good description of trafficking.

There are probably many shades of grey between those two end members.

I remember chatting with an AMP woman whom I quite like. She'd been in Canada for about ten years and as near as I could tell was in control of her life. One day I was talking about myself working to earn enough money to retire. Just making conversation, I asked when she planned to retire. Her response was "Oh, I can never retire!". One could read a lot of different meanings into that. It left me wondering.

The first one is just capitalism lol. You could say I'm "forced" to work in this industry too.

 

[Big_Guy_Rye]

The first one is just capitalism lol. You could say I'm "forced" to work in this industry too.

But it's not capitalism that is making you work that industry; it's your pride. Whereas for 'some' Asians it's about survival, and just trying to make a decent living.

I mean, you could've moved out of the city to some podunk town where the cost of living is still low enough to support yourself with a single minimum wage job....but that's not as glamourous as making it work out in the big, 'super-awesome', city of Vancouver (THE most expensive city in North America to live in), right? You chose to stay in Vancouver to keep up a particular lifestyle, "with the Joneses", so to speak.

**I don't mean to speak towards your personal intentions as to why you do the things you do, so look at the broad-strokes of it all; go to social media and follow young providers who share tik-tok videos about all their gains from hustling, making it rain on their twerking butt. Or even where they eat in some posh city-chic trendy restaurant, before hittin' the clubs. ...you think they are 'forced' into the life? ....only by their own vanity, but no one else....

However in some Asian countries, it's quite difficult to eek out a meager living doing retail or other service industry jobs (as most of the them don't have minimum wage laws to hold them up). And there is no "podunk town" to fall back on to avoid giving into the sex industry. In fact, it's sometimes their own parents from some peasant village that shuffle them off to the tourist hot-spots to make more money on their knees than they could growing rice. And what better money to make than getting a Western work visa and tap into where all that tourist bucks are made in the first place?...so for some of them, it is about survival.

 

[emacky]

"Forced" can have many meanings. If a woman can't make enough money where she is, so she makes a personal decision to come to Canada in hope of earning more, we might say she was forced by her financial circumstances, but I wouldn't say that trafficking was a factor.

On the other hand, if somebody says "you owe me money, so you have to go to Canada to settle your debt", then tells her where she has to work, controls her money and maybe holds her passport, then that's a pretty good description of trafficking.

I remember chatting with an AMP woman whom I quite like. She'd been in Canada for about ten years and as near as I could tell was in control of her life. One day I was talking about myself working to earn enough money to retire. Just making conversation, I asked when she planned to retire. Her response was "Oh, I can never retire!". One could read a lot of different meanings into that. It left me wondering.

Maybe the wording of your question wasn't right. She probably assumed you're asking her when she might retire form working all together, not just in the industry. Some are obsessed with money and can never step away. Then there are those who reach their goal, retire to a typical civilian job or switch names and only do massage and happy endings. Generally, these women have been hustling their whole lives and can't really stop as it's all they know and don't have a really solid retirement plan that has guaranteed residual income.

Trafficked? I'm sure there might be a few, but probably not a lot. Forced into it, something different. Asian culture (overseas) is very different from what we experience in the West. Even if you travel in Asian countries you really won't pick up on it, but live there for a while and you will realize women are treated very differently than men. Doesn't really matter the country, China, Korea, Philippines, etc.. (maybe not Japan).
I've been on Chautbate for a while and I'm fairly convinced there are ladies working on their that are trafficked. I think there are also a few that might be underage. I have no idea how hard it is to monitor a site like that.

Have you seen Japan? They push a lot of young girls into the industry with the lure of quick cash. It doesn't start with porn or sex provider right away. It starts with innocent modelling gigs, working as an idol or in a maid cafe or a promoter for some store in Akihabara or where ever. They get girls hooked on the cash and keep pushing the envelope. It's no different from Korea mass recruiting girls into Kpop groups and keeping them in super long binding contracts.

 

[johnnydepth]

I've been to Japan several times, but have not had an exteneded stay there; that's why I said Maybe not Japan because I don't know the circumstances there. I'm all too aware of Kpop culture and what goes on there. I was at a party/ reception years ago and one of the more famous actresses/ singers from Korea was there. Most people here wouldn't know who she is, but she is a big deal. In America think Ariana Grande or a Jessica Biel as an equivalent. Anyway at some point during the evening a gentlemen I presume to be her agent told me I could take her home for the night for $10K. She doesn't have a choice in the matter that's just how it is done there. Keep in mind this lady is wealthy, literally has millions of dollars but is completely controlled by the industry and has to do what she is told.

 

[MissingOne]

... you could've moved out of the city to some podunk town where the cost of living is still low enough to support yourself with a single minimum wage job...

Finding a minimum wage job in a "podunk" town ain't so easy. And if you are lucky enough to find a job pumping gas or serving in a coffee shop, you'll find that it might just barely cover expenses.

I live more-or-less in the bush. If you want to move to the nearest podunk town to where I am, you'd better bring a good grubstake. COVID refugees from the Lower Mainland have pushed housing prices up to the point that in town a "starter" home consisting of a somewhat upgraded house that would have been a tear-down in Vancouver costs about a million.

 

[angry anderson]

Maybe the wording of your question wasn't right. She probably assumed you're asking her when she might retire form working all together, not just in the industry. Some are obsessed with money and can never step away. Then there are those who reach their goal, retire to a typical civilian job or switch names and only do massage and happy endings. Generally, these women have been hustling their whole lives and can't really stop as it's all they know and don't have a really solid retirement plan that has guaranteed residual income.



Have you seen Japan? They push a lot of young girls into the industry with the lure of quick cash. It doesn't start with porn or sex provider right away. It starts with innocent modelling gigs, working as an idol or in a maid cafe or a promoter for some store in Akihabara or where ever. They get girls hooked on the cash and keep pushing the envelope. It's no different from Korea mass recruiting girls into Kpop groups and keeping them in super long binding contracts.

Saw a documentary on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Allegedly the Yakuza move in and picked up all the newly orphaned kids and sold them into the flesh trade as toddlers. Easy money in Japan.

 

[Forum mod]

There's a very diseased but healthy sex trafficking industry right here in Canada. Organized crime and many one-off pimps run circuits around the country, including Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton etc. One ring in Ontario was busted recently, but there are dozens to take its place.

You don't need to demonize those who come to Canada, you can start right at home.