How important is kissing in a GFE (Girl Friend Experience)

[blackcad]

Of all the women, pro and non, I have been with in my life all reciprocated soft kisses, LFK, or DFK.

One girl I've seen on multiple occasions stopped allowing kissing with me after several dates. Prior to this, sessions with her were getting more and more intimate. However, one day, when I attempted to initiate lip contact, she immediately turned her head and/or turned around....and it has been like that for a long time now and many dates.

In fact, as I saw her more often, she seemed to discourage DATY, and lead the sessions to BJ and FS. To this day I don't understand why she did that. I really enjoyed initiating with foreplay, kisses and DATY. Did I have a bad breath day? Am I a terrible kisser? Did I make one of our kisses too wet? I wish she would have told me so that I could fix the problem. When asked after several sessions like this she said "No.......she's working on the kissing thing".

A couple months later I had an afternoon date with her and she allowed light kisses....and actually said she likes soft kisses like that. But things didn't continue to improve for me. Subsequent attempts to kiss her were subtly denied.....and I felt quite rejected.

This, of course, everytime, put quite the killer on my male ego and took me right out of the experience....here I am...a pretty good looking guy, fairly young, with almost perfect teeth, with impeccable breath, at least now, (I take multiple measures to ensure I have perfect breath including tongue scrubbing, expensive mouthwashes, tests on others.....ever since the kissing denial "thing" started) and a girl I'm paying, who undoubtedly allows other, probably less savoury men to kiss her, won't kiss me.

Suddenly I realize that my GFE with her is not a GFE, but a FE (Friend Experience) and I feel like she is only going through the motions. I continue on and go though the motions myself, the entire time wondering why won't this girl kiss me. Am I that unattractive? Why am I so attracted to someone who may be repulsed by me? I know that is not the case but it still bothers me and hampers my performance with her. There have been times where I have not been able to cum in a two hour session, or cum only once, and I know it is only because of my fragile ego and the lack of foreplay. I need intimacy, even though only a fantasy, to enjoy myself sexually.

I even stopped trying for kisses and DATY as the subtle rejections would only guarantee performance issues on my part.

I texted these concerns to her several times but always wonder if she received the texts (it's always easier to talk in a text.....it allows you to think about a response) as she'd often say she didn't get all my texts. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about my expectations. I feel I can read her mind in some ways, but in others, she's a complete mystery to me.

We enjoyed many social outings, and they were always fun, but the looming question I'd always keep in my head was, when we go back to her place, will she allow me to be myself in the session, will she let me kiss her so I can take charge in the bedroom the way I have with other women in my life, or will she deny that kiss and turn me into a nerdy submissive. I was hoping our sex life would get better the more we saw one another, not worse.

If I wasn't paying her, I'd definitely be more dominant in the bedroom, and be more assertive in going for the kiss. Unfortunately, in this fantasy world I can't do that...she is providing a service and I must respect her limits, even if she advertises a GFE and did advertise DFK when I first saw her.

I for one, almost....no...to be honest, in fact prefer kissing to full service, if I had to pick only one. I'm not talking about ramming my tongue down her throat here.....I'm happy with gentle soft brushing of lips with a hint of intimate tongue contact, perhaps more depending on the consensual mood. If I have full service without it the whole thing really becomes mechanical. If the lady refuses kissing when I know she routinely provides it I really end up feeling like a chump. I don't want her as a masturbation aid, she's more than that to me. I want the whole fantasy of a GFE during the time I've paid for.

Perhaps this chump likes this woman too much, and she sensed that, and denied kisses to retain me as a client, but not get my feelings so involved. If that was her plan, then it has backfired as I desire the elusive kiss even more from her. Perhaps I was falling for her, but I've always been able to bottle up my feelings, and I reassured her of that. It's sad because when we're doing social things she knows the real me, I am myself, but she certainly doesn't know who I am in the bedroom, as I am not able to truly be myself once the bedroom door is closed.

Regardless, I'm still drawn to her intoxicating beauty and personality and need to see her again...and again. It's not what she does, but who she is that I am attracted to....so spare me any advice of never seeing her again. I don't think that's advice that I can abide by. I'd rather know her, kissing or not, than not know her.

I haven't seen her, or talked with her for a while, but I cannot deny that I miss her and our times together.

There's another beautiful woman I'm seeing who seems to love kissing me, at least if she's acting she's got me happily fooled, and it's making seeing her very hard to resist. I've had a session with her where I came 4 times, and I know our kisses had no small influence on me. I am not afraid to be myself, and be dominant in the bedroom with her. She helps me forget about the other girl, if only, albeit two hours at a time.

So that begs the question. Am I putting too much emphasis on a simple thing like a kiss? For me I know the answer. How important is kissing in a GFE and /or a PSE style experience to you?

 

[Umbras]

Every person has thier own sense of intimacy, I love kissing as long as it is not the feeble pecking, it is also a great indication as to how heavy the session will be. It is also a great way to get the hormones going, I can get hard fast with a few sensual kisses.

The problem sounds like she may have thought you were getting to emotionaly invested and instead of talking it out and letting you know, she took the other way and started to distance herself from you. This is speculation but can definatly be a good reason.

It could also be that she may have had a negative/bad session with a client, There are men out there that do not afford respect and feel that since they paid they can act and do anything they want causing her to lose intrest in what she does and that she no longer has a desire to really do it anymore(money does have a tendancy to over ride peoples decision making). The ladies do get burned out and tired, having to listening to our problems can get a bit overwhelming and repetative. Could be she was having a bad time with other things going on. can cause distance after awhile, or could be the thrill was gone and time for you to move on.

I pay attention to the little things, body language, expressions, sounds when I am with a woman it helps me gague the mood and receptive she is to me.

Eye contact for me is the biggest tell of how the evening will play out, gives me a good indication if the chemistry is there and if I am going to return or not.

Grats on finding a new companion that meets your desires and needs and your ability to be open with each other, that is the best way to keep the spark there.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

gfe by my definition absolutely includes kissing

i had one tell me on the one and only time i saw her, 'this isn't girlfriend sex, it's prostitute sex...'

ok, thanks - bye now

 

[twoblues]

I'm not much of a DFK'er in real life, so it's not something I would miss. Light nibbles on the lips...brushing tongues...that's more me and would make the GFE experience complete.

To each their own. In you

 

[juniper]

When a man feels obsessed, like you, there is little one can do but wait until it plays itself out. There are many "love" stories (novels) with this theme. The main character in Proust's novels, a very introverted man, fell for a woman, a tart, and he became disappointedly engaged (like You) but for years. Once disengaged, he said (to paraphrase), "How could I have become so involved with a woman who was simply not my type (pas mon genre)". One of the brothers in Doystoyevski's "The Brothers Karamazoff" used to await, in hiding, by a lamppost waiting for his "beloved" to return home by a horsedrawn carriage at 3;30 in the morning just to discover who may have been accompanying her. And Sappho, the Greek poet, wrote about her agonizing thrill in spying her beloved (another woman) with her new lover (a man). So you can learn a lot from literature. Most of all, you can't do much about this until it plays itself out or ... as I once did ... move from Newfoundland to Ontario to get out from under. After a few months, she did not matter to me anymore and ... she still doesn't. But during that period of time, I was truly "out of my mind". The ancient Greeks understood this. The Goddess of Love was Aphrodite and she had a little "friend" named Cupid who would shoot arrows into the unsuspecting target of Aphrodite's concern. So, there you are. You are utterly irrational about this; it makes no sense! But, you already know this, don't you?

 

[LADY-VIA]

maybe she likes you ???? i saw one client in calgary just once... and i liked him so I decided it wasnt a good idea to continue that type of relationship, although we are still in contact and remained friends, and some times we played around Perhapps she's pulling away because she has feelings for you ! I care about all my clients, although when i start caring too much i have to pull away. I dont want to hurt them. She might have a boyfriend as well, and maybe he doesnt want her to kiss, maybe thats one thing he wants for himself. He has to share her as it is, so maybe thats just one thing for him and onley him ???? my ex was the same.. he hated the thought of me kissing anyone. everything else was ok for the most part, but he didnt want me to kiss anyone.. Sometimes kissing can be more intimate than sex.

 

[Iroc]

I guess I would have to phrase it this way. When you have a girlfriend as opposed to a female whom is your friend. Do you kiss her???? or do you just shake hands.

#1

 

[blackcad]

maybe she likes you ???? i saw one client in calgary just once... and i liked him so I decided it wasnt a good idea to continue that type of relationship, although we are still in contact and remained friends, and some times we played around Perhapps she's pulling away because she has feelings for you ! I care about all my clients, although when i start caring too much i have to pull away. I dont want to hurt them. She might have a boyfriend as well, and maybe he doesnt want her to kiss, maybe thats one thing he wants for himself. He has to share her as it is, so maybe thats just one thing for him and onley him ???? my ex was the same.. he hated the thought of me kissing anyone. everything else was ok for the most part, but he didnt want me to kiss anyone.. Sometimes kissing can be more intimate than sex.

Well, maybe she does. That's an interesting point LV. I have pretty high self-esteem and never had a shortage of women who'm I know liked me. I never had any problems picking up women post-high school. I had confidence. It's a possibility. One that allows me to salvage my male ego here. In fact, the turning point I think, were sessions where I started to see her as just a girl, not a provider. A happy girl who has suffered pains, of lost loves, and lost people. In these sessions she allowed me to spend many extra hours with her in romantic non sexual ways, sessions that are emblazened in my fond memories. Sessions where she showed me her tears, and her mine...which is really out-of character for me...I virtually never cry. Perhaps that is when I formed a connection to her.

Juniper, obsessed.. I wouldn't say I am. Just a guy who cares about a girl. But I am in no position to pursue her now, and she knows it, perhaps she's glad I'm not free to pursue her, perhaps not, I don't know. In a different circumstance I know I could fall head over heals for her, but I won't allow that to happen. Not unless certain circumstances aligned. In the meantime, I do think about her a lot, but I don't dwell on her. She wouldn't want that and I would never do that.

 

[LADY-VIA]

i often

dont clock watch and even hang out with my clients. dinners outings,, concerts... but i can tell when they become too attached and then i have to pull away. and no they dont pay for social time,, i just enjoy their company and they are nice people to hang out with.... these are generally clients i have seen for a while. seaveral clients know very personal things, as we have spent alot of time together, however we spend time with you because we want to, the last thing we need is for you to fall in love. or worry about us. she pushed you away for a reason you can guess all you want, and perhapps one day when she is ready she will tell you

 

[blackcad]

........ the last thing we need is for you to fall in love. or worry about us.

I won't allow myself to fall in love. Maybe if I was in my 20's I'd have less emotional control. If circumstances were right, then yes, but they aren' t at the moment. I just wish I could see her and get lost in the fantasy times we had before. We had such great times. I wish I could be her friend....outside the business one day.

 

[LADY-VIA]

she might be on her way out !!! so you probably can be friends however you have to be patient.... transsion takes time... I did it for three years, and when you first leave you really dont know what to do with yourself, and you shut people out, because you are lost in your own thoughts. thats what happened to me !!! i became a huge introvert and barely spoke to anyone. She could be going through some kind of personal transsiion...... and she just needs space. someone could have died??? maybe she had an abortion ??? something happened !!!! im sure she will contact you and talk when she is ready

 

[blackcad]

she might be on her way out !!! so you probably can be friends however you have to be patient.... transsion takes time... I did it for three years, and when you first leave you really dont know what to do with yourself, and you shut people out, because you are lost in your own thoughts. thats what happened to me !!! i became a huge introvert and barely spoke to anyone. She could be going through some kind of personal transsiion...... and she just needs space. someone could have died??? maybe she had an abortion ??? something happened !!!! im sure she will contact you and talk when she is ready

Yes Lady-Via. She might be in some form of transition. I know she is a strong person and will succeed in life despite any obstacles. I just hate to lose all the good times we've had and still hope for more. If she eventually quits the business, I hope she realizes that I will take the secret of how I know her to the grave, and that we can still be friends in the outside world. Alas, an unrequited kiss is the one most longed for.

 

[LowerMainlander]

I have to admit to not having read the entire thread but my own take on this is pretty simple:
If you're not getting what you want/expect out of the deal, why continue?

 

[jdtipper]

So that begs the question. Am I putting too much emphasis on a simple thing like a kiss? For me I know the answer. How important is kissing in a GFE and /or a PSE style experience to you?

I'll be honest. When I first got into this hobby, I couldn't fathom paying extract for GFE. One gal soon changed all that. She was my GFE. Since then, Ive been hooked.
Now I hunt for a true GFE session. Everything one would do normally with a GF, thats what I like.
To go back to an FS.... no. So yes, kissing is a big deal in a GFE session.

I can offer an option as to your lady friend.
Take a break. Simple. She has withdrawn from you for a reason, so take the next step and walk away.
If she wont tell you why she pulled away, then cut your losses and just keep the memories for the good times.

I learned this one the hard way.

 

[blackcad]

I'll be honest. When I first got into this hobby, I couldn't fathom paying extract for GFE. One gal soon changed all that. She was my GFE. Since then, Ive been hooked.
Now I hunt for a true GFE session. Everything one would do normally with a GF, thats what I like.
To go back to an FS.... no. So yes, kissing is a big deal in a GFE session.

I can offer an option as to your lady friend.
Take a break. Simple. She has withdrawn from you for a reason, so take the next step and walk away.
If she wont tell you why she pulled away, then cut your losses and just keep the memories for the good times.

I learned this one the hard way.

I'll always have the memories of the good times. But frankly, I really enjoy and always look forward to spending time with her, even if it has to be just social.

At one point when I brought up the kissing thing, she spontaneiously kissed me in an elevator. Moments like those make up for a lot.

It would be hard for me to think that I can't even see her that way anymore. Spending time with her obviously feeds one of my innate needs that is not requited otherwise.

 

[jdtipper]

It would be hard for me to think that I can't even see her that way anymore. Spending time with her obviously feeds one of my innate needs that is not requited otherwise.

Well my friend IMO, your fucked.
Your not getting what you want, but you won't leave.

You say you won't fall in love, but yet, you are overly infatuated.
Take a break, clear your head.

 

[blackcad]

Well my friend IMO, your fucked.
Your not getting what you want, but you won't leave.

You say you won't fall in love, but yet, you are overly infatuated.
Take a break, clear your head.

Well jdtipper, there are no cookie cutter answers here. I do appreciate your advice. If you read the entire thread you'd see that I'm seeing another woman now as well, times with her are amazing. I've always thought of myself as a happy person. Recent events in my life/relationships have caused me considerable stress but the girl this post is referring to, has helped me maintain this happiness and balance and I'm appreciative of her.

If you think I am lost in a love-sick stupor, that is not the case. I'm sure I could go that way, if I was weaker-willed, but..... I like this girl, I like her a lot, and she has helped awaken parts of me that I haven't felt for at least 15 years. In truth, she's added spice to my life, as have other's, and I like the unique flavour of her spice. Going through life knowing you'll never taste cinnamon sugar again is not quite so sweet...to put it metaphorically.

And all the times in my life, 2 or 3, that I've ever fallen for a girl, and been heartbroken, either by incompatibility, circumstance, timing or distance, were times I am glad I experienced in retrospect.

Unrequited feelings to me are enjoyable....I can choose to keep them to myself...or not.....or I can post them in an anonymous forum like this. They make me feel young and alive, and I don't regret them, or meeting her, for even a second.

 

[blackcad]

This thread seems to have gone on a bit of a tangent away from the original question I posed, about how important kissing is to a GFE. Instead its focus has been my particular relationship with this girl. Perhaps I should refine my question into several.

Are there any other guys in a situation like myself? etc. Like the girl...seen her many times..she's stopped kissing, or reduced any services for that manner, for an unknown reason (not related to hygiene or bad breath), and you still want to see her.

Is there really any way to spice things up if kissing is not an option? (BTW..she never actually told me she wouldn't kiss me, she told me she's "working on it"...whatever that means.

Do any SP's openly call themselves GFE but not offer kissing?

Do SP's that do not allow any kissing have as many regulars as those that do? I would think repeat customers would be less likely without the intimacy offered by kissing.

Any SP's with an idea? I always appreciate the information from you fine women.

 

[blackcad]

Since you still seem to be having trouble with this one,maybe you should go and see a rimming queen such as Liz in New West.If she won't kiss you, then you maybe you have a problem.

Hahaha....I'm pretty positive I'm a fairly non-repulsive aka attractive guy with great teeth and oral hygiene. I've never had any women fear kissing me..at least that I've known of....in fact I used to have to prevent them from kissing me....to avoid turning flirting into unwanted relationships. This current girl I'm referring to is the exception and the enigma. Maybe my technique is off, and I need refresher lessons, I haven't done much kissing in the last many years.

 

[blackcad]

If it was only that simple. I think I know her well enough to know that offering more money wouldn't work. There's some other reason beyond $$$ that's in play here. And with me...it's probably just wanting something that I know I can't have