Gaza: 'Unprecedented and unparalleled' civilian death toll: Guterres

[westwoody]

Not the people in the neighboring Muslim countries.

It’s interesting that their neighbouring countries have built huge walls and fences to keep Palestinians out. Egypt knows Pallys better than we do, and they have a barricade as big as Israel’s.
All the lies about Israel not allowing aid in overlook the other ways in and out. Why is Israel being blamed? Egypt could let aid through. Maybe Egypt knows what happens to aid once Ham Ass get their grubby mitts on it.

 

[CanineCowboy]

It’s interesting that their neighbouring countries have built huge walls and fences to keep Palestinians out. Egypt knows Pallys better than we do, and they have a barricade as big as Israel’s.
All the lies about Israel not allowing aid in overlook the other ways in and out. Why is Israel being blamed? Egypt could let aid through. Maybe Egypt knows what happens to aid once Ham Ass get their grubby mitts on it.

I have to stop you there, what are you talking about?

Since 2007, Israel has controlled all entry points to Gaza including those shared with Egypt. Since October 7th trucks loaded with aid have been sitting in Egypt and denied entrance to Gaza by Israel. And this is no big secret or conspiracy, it has been widely and regularly talked about, reported on and debated, including by the Israeli government, for months.

The number of trucks with aid allowed into Gaza was one of the central negotiated points for the first cease fire agreement and prisoner exchange between Israel and Hamas.

Please read, listen or watch some real news before making such a blantantly ignorant statement. I am actually totally shocked.

I don't think there is any value to these political threads on perb, they are so full of fake news and nonsense, it's why I stopped participating years ago.

 

[Drjohn]

I have to stop you there, what are you talking about?

Since 2007, Israel has controlled all entry points to Gaza including those shared with Egypt. Since October 7th trucks loaded with aid have been sitting in Egypt and denied entrance to Gaza by Israel. And this is no big secret or conspiracy, it has been widely and regularly talked about, reported on and debated, including by the Israeli government, for months.

The number of trucks with aid allowed into Gaza was one of the central negotiated points for the first cease fire agreement and prisoner exchange between Israel and Hamas.

Please read, listen or watch some real news before making such a blantantly ignorant statement. I am actually totally shocked.

I don't think there is any value to these political threads on perb, they are so full of fake news and nonsense, it's why I stopped participating years ago.

If someone disagrees with you, make sure you characterize them as being "alt right".

If you're confronted with facts that don't fit your narrative, call them "fake news".

Maybe direct your righteous indignation towards the people responsible for the situation currently in Gaza.

The geniuses who were responsible for the premeditated murder of over a thousand innocent Israelis.

That would be Hamas.

You reap what you sow.

P.s don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

 

[Bobert1969]

I have to stop you there, what are you talking about?
Since 2007, Israel has controlled all entry points to Gaza including those shared with Egypt.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war

 

[CanineCowboy]

If someone disagrees with you, make sure you characterize them as being "alt right".

If you're confronted with facts that don't fit your narrative, call them "fake news".

Maybe direct your righteous indignation towards the people responsible for the situation currently in Gaza.

The geniuses who were responsible for the premeditated murder of over a thousand innocent Israelis.

That would be Hamas.

You reap what you sow.

P.s don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

If you can't differentiate between the organization Hamas and the innocent civilian residents of Gaza, including children and infants, your whole argument falls apart because then there can't be any innocent Israeli civilians either.

Innocents have died on both sides of the conflict. The dehumanizing of victims was exactly Glazer's point.

Using the term alt right is a descriptive of one's ideas on the political spectrum, if you find it offensive, maybe re-examine your ideas. Bibi, Putin, Orban are all alt right political leaders, Trump wants to be one. If someone calls me left wing, I don't cry about it, because it lines up perfectly with my political views.

And if a fact, isn't a fact because it's wrong or has been deliberately mis-stated ... it is not a difference of opinion, it' fake! Stop subscribing to Trump's 'alternative facts' argument.

Ps. Wow, you have memorized a bad line from a movie ... relevance? Are you next going to quote Fight Club, American Psycho or some other line from 'bro culture'

 

[CanineCowboy]

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war

View attachment 90322

Direct quote from your article:

"We spend so long getting the trucks to the crossing point, then they go through inspection for hours, then they have to reroute and when they eventually enter Gaza, it's often late at night,"

The Israelis are doing all the inspections to permit or deny all goods from proceeding into Gaza from Egypt and the denials are often arbitrary.

On October 9, 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israel’s Minister of Defense, stated, “We are imposing a complete siege on [Gaza]. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel – everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.”

The threat wasn't empty and it wasn't excluding aid coming through Rafa.

Do a little bit more research, you can do it fella, you are almost there.

 

[Drjohn]

If you can't differentiate between the organization Hamas and the innocent civilian residents of Gaza, including children and infants, your whole argument falls apart because then there can't be any innocent Israeli civilians either.

Innocents have died on both sides of the conflict. The dehumanizing of victims was exactly Glazer's point.

Using the term alt right is a descriptive of one's ideas on the political spectrum, if you find it offensive, maybe re-examine your ideas. Bibi, Putin, Orban are all alt right political leaders, Trump wants to be one. If someone calls me left wing, I don't cry about it, because it lines up perfectly with my political views.

And if a fact, isn't a fact because it's wrong or has been deliberately mis-stated ... it is not a difference of opinion, it' fake! Stop subscribing to Trump's 'alternative facts' argument.

Ps. Wow, you have memorized a bad line from a movie ... relevance? Are you next going to quote Fight Club, American Psycho or some other line from 'bro culture'

When Hamas decided to attack Israel, how did they think it would turn out?

What happens when you send a rag tag group of murderers, kidnappers and rapists to fight a well armed and equipped professional military?

Here's another catchy line for you,

"Fuck around and find out".

 

[CanineCowboy]

When Hamas decided to attack Israel, how did they think it would turn out?

What happens when you send a rag tag group of murderers, kidnappers and rapists to fight a well armed and equipped professional military?

Here's another catchy line for you,

"Fuck around and find out".

So with your logic, you believe in collective punishment which is a war crime. Enough said.

 

[Bobert1969]

Direct quote from your article:

"We spend so long getting the trucks to the crossing point, then they go through inspection for hours, then they have to reroute and when they eventually enter Gaza, it's often late at night,"

Inspected by whom? Rerouted where? What this quote is not including is where trucks are being inspected. That would be the Nitzana crossing, which IS controlled by Israel. Not the Rafa crossing. I've done my research by being in the region before, sweet pea.

But sorry, there are plenty of articles that say Israel doesn't control Rafa. They may have influence, but they don't control it. Egypt does, which begs the question, why haven't they opened it to help their brothers and sisters come in?

Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip have only one gateway to the outside world that is not directly controlled by Israel: the Rafah border crossing with Egypt.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-gaza-egypt-rafah-crossing-who-controls

The Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing is Gaza's main lifeline to the outside world that is not run by Israel.

Although Israel does not directly control the Rafah crossing, it monitors all activity in southern Gaza from Kerem Shalom military base, and other surveillance.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/who-co...-and-why-is-it-so-important-to-gaza-1.6626420

The Rafah border crossing from Gaza into Egypt is the only one of the Gaza crossing points that does not communicate with Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ssing-and-who-can-now-use-it-israel-palestine

I can quote more comments and paste more links, but I'm getting bored.

 

[Drjohn]

So with your logic, you believe in collective punishment which is a war crime. Enough said.

I seem to recall that the Israeli counter attack came after a period of careful consideration.

The people in Gaza were warned in a number of ways, leaflets were dropped etc.

The objective of the military operation is the destruction of Hamas.

Hamas, the terrorist group that uses kidnapped Israelis and its own people as human shields.

Hamas, the terrorist group that operates out of hospitals and mosques.

Hamas, the terrorist group that steals food and medical aid meant for its own people.

Have some innocent people in Gaza died as the result of what Hamas has done?

Unfortunately yes.

Is Israel responsible?

Obviously not.

When you blather about collective punishment and war crimes, it just makes you look uninformed.

That's too bad.

 

[CanineCowboy]

Inspected by whom? Rerouted where? What this quote is not including is where trucks are being inspected. That would be the Nitzana crossing, which IS controlled by Israel. Not the Rafa crossing. I've done my research by being in the region before, sweet pea.

But sorry, there are plenty of articles that say Israel doesn't control Rafa. They may have influence, but they don't control it. Egypt does, which begs the question, why haven't they opened it to help their brothers and sisters come in?



https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-gaza-egypt-rafah-crossing-who-controls



https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/who-co...-and-why-is-it-so-important-to-gaza-1.6626420


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ssing-and-who-can-now-use-it-israel-palestine

I can quote more comments and paste more links, but I'm getting bored.

View attachment 90360

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-israels-inspection-process-is-obstructing-aid-delivery

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...i-inspections-slowing-aid-deliveries-to-gaza/

https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-rafah-aid-us-senators-2bc2a3c5e5f8af8e2d3f0b7242c1a885

https://www.wfp.org/stories/hungers...manitarian-gear-and-food-gaza-face-long-waits

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-aid-trucks.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...d-reaching-palestinians-in-gaza-/7499319.html

A sample quotation from the VOA article:

"Israel later relented under U.S. pressure and began allowing dozens of trucks to enter each day from the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza. But aid groups said they faced a cumbersome inspection process that allowed only a trickle of aid to enter even as needs mounted, with some 80% of Palestinians displaced from their homes. Israel says the inspections are needed for security reasons."


You are either selectively ignoring reality or don't know how to research.

 

[CanineCowboy]

I seem to recall that the Israeli counter attack came after a period of careful consideration.

The people in Gaza were warned in a number of ways, leaflets were dropped etc.

The objective of the military operation is the destruction of Hamas.

Hamas, the terrorist group that uses kidnapped Israelis and its own people as human shields.

Hamas, the terrorist group that operates out of hospitals and mosques.

Hamas, the terrorist group that steals food and medical aid meant for its own people.

Have some innocent people in Gaza died as the result of what Hamas has done?

Unfortunately yes.

Is Israel responsible?

Obviously not.

When you blather about collective punishment and war crimes, it just makes you look uninformed.

That's too bad.

Collective Punishment
International humanitarian law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is also forbidden, whether in the case of prisoners of war or of any other individuals (GCIII Art. 87, API Art. 75.2.d, APII Art. 4.2.b). This is one of the fundamental guarantees established by the 1949 Geneva Conventions and their 1977 Additional Protocols. This guarantee is applicable not only to protected persons but to all individuals, no matter what their status or to what category of persons they belong, as defined by the Geneva Conventions (GCIV Art. 33).

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15473.doc.htm

I guess as uninformed as the UN.

 

[overdone]

.

But sorry, there are plenty of articles that say Israel doesn't control Rafa. They may have influence, but they don't control it. Egypt does, which begs the question, why haven't they opened it to help their brothers and sisters come in?

for the same reason why none of the other Majority Muslim countries in the area do

they're not Peaceful/loving/giving/caring like they all say

they're all about their own self intrests, their current DICTATOR

go back, all the other times, Syria, Iraq, any time there is a crisis, they don't step up

Eygpt, they don't want them, why would you want Hamas supporters, cause that's what Gazans are, Hamas Supporters, enablers, Eygpt knows this

why do you think Sisi and the military got rid of the Muslim Brotherhood, another terrorist organization

imagine if the Muslim Brotherhood was still in power in Eygpt now

that's why it's so pathetic that the West continues to be useful idiots when it comes to the Islamist/Muslim Terrorists

while holding Israel to a standard that no other country in the world would be held to

due to a PR campaign of lies by a Terrorist organization

 

[Drjohn]

Collective Punishment
International humanitarian law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is also forbidden, whether in the case of prisoners of war or of any other individuals (GCIII Art. 87, API Art. 75.2.d, APII Art. 4.2.b). This is one of the fundamental guarantees established by the 1949 Geneva Conventions and their 1977 Additional Protocols. This guarantee is applicable not only to protected persons but to all individuals, no matter what their status or to what category of persons they belong, as defined by the Geneva Conventions (GCIV Art. 33).

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15473.doc.htm

I guess as uninformed as the UN.

Is the UN still a thing?

When you don't know what you don't know, it's a problem.

In this case, it's a you problem.

If you want to go on thinking that somehow the Israelis are the bad guys in this scenario, go ahead.

It's not my job to cure people of their delusions

 

[overdone]

If you can't differentiate between the organization Hamas and the innocent civilian residents of Gaza, including children and infants, your whole argument falls apart because then there can't be any innocent Israeli civilians either.

Children, sure, they can be innocents, the adults in Gaza however, NO

they're complicit, enablers, willing participants, they voted in Hamas

stood by when they were killing the PA who were in power before them

they've stood by for 15+ yrs when there was never another election, cheered everytime they killed Jews

celebrated in the streets

those in Gaza who are with Hamas are the majority, healthy majority, poll after poll, video after video shows that


that is the biggest lie about the Palestinians, they're not innocent, they have proven time after time

they don't want peace, they want dead Jews, from the river to the sea


now if that was the Jews chant

from the river to the sea Israel will be free

then you'd have a point, but as usual, you're just a zealot from the left being used by a TERRORIST ORG to promote their

agenda to kill all the Jews everywhere

or did you miss their leaders saying that right after the fake hospital bombing?

 

[CanineCowboy]

Is the UN still a thing?

When you don't know what you don't know, it's a problem.

In this case, it's a you problem.

If you want to go on thinking that somehow the Israelis are the bad guys in this scenario, go ahead.

It's not my job to cure people of their delusions

When your argument fails, try and dismiss and attack the messenger. Cute tactic, very ... Trumpian.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/22/obstacles-to-gaza-aid-deliveries-visual-guide

 

[ModSquad]

Fight Club - there is no fight club.

Contentious subjects like this requires posters have an appreciation that a good debate is perfectly ok.

Otherwise it’s just like monkeys slinging shit at spectators.

Don’t be the monkey who gets the thread closed.

 

[Bobert1969]

You are either selectively ignoring reality or don't know how to research.

Or…. It’s easy for me to find several articles specifically stating that Israel does not control the Rafah border point and you cannot provide a single article that specifically says it does, per your own assertion. If it were an absolute, then you shouldn’t need to share several articles that merely hint in the direction you want them to.

 

[zaphod42]

I suspect people are very entrenched in their own views. I find it worth looking at the local Point of View to be helpful.
Check out this video from a Rabbi in Israel. It's 30 minutes or so, but, if you have some attention span it is worth a look.

 

[jgg]

The UN is irrelevant in todays world. There are no rules in war.