Fraser Institute says ignore Mulcair, our air is good

DavidMR · Mar 23, 2013

vancity_cowboy said:
well I work in a business that uses many scientists, and almost all companies in that business are required to report to shareholders and regulatory agencies on a very regular basis

in that industry, EVERYBODY is muzzled, from the scientists to the secretaries to the accountants to the consultants to the Chairmen of the Boards of Directors. there is a VERY set protocol for releasing news to the shareholders and the public agencies. and the news always gets changed SUBSTANTIALLY from the time the initial report on data leaves the scientist's computer until the time the news is released to the shareholders and the public.

This is actually quite funny. You claim to be in some type of business, you don't say which but it does sound like mining promotion, that "uses scientists" and then alters what they say before feeding the resulting managed "information" to the shareholders and the public. And you're holding this kind of obvious manipulation, misconduct and deceit up as an example that should be followed by the Government of Canada.

Well, that may be the standard this particular government is following, but it's not the standard any honest or responsible Canadian wants.

Unpossible · Mar 23, 2013

DavidMR said:
This is actually quite funny. You claim to be in some type of business, you don't say which but it does sound like mining promotion, that "uses scientists" and then alters what they say before feeding the resulting managed "information" to the shareholders and the public. And you're holding this kind of obvious manipulation, misconduct and deceit up as an example that should be followed by the Government of Canada.

What I find funny is that he downplays bijou's posts by claiming she isn't scientist while admitting that he isn't either. Working with scientists doesn't give you an honorary degree.

but they're not her posts, grasshopper - they're a collection of what other people have written - and all of the other people have an agenda different than real, pure, peer reviewed science

LOL! But the article you quoted is completely unbiased.

Miss*Bijou · Mar 23, 2013

storm rider said:
I believe that is what's called "internet smart".

SR

Why? Because I can keep up, read (and do read) the news? Because I actually prefer to be informed about something before I make claims about it or come to a conclusion? Because I can back up my claims? Because I call out people who just pull facts out of their a!! and expect that to be a valid or convincing argument?

You're both either being dumb or playing dumb and just trying to waste my time with all this mindless nonsense.

Which part of providing several different:
a) complaints from numerous scientists, some of them not Canadian but collaborating on projects with Canadian scientists,
b) concrete examples of new "rules" that muzzle scientists and are obviously meant to keep information that contradicts government policies or interests from the public....

Which part of that is so confusing to both of you?
Are you saying they're not necessary and all that is needed is my word? That claiming it is all the evidence needed to prove my point?

While the onus should have been on vancity cowboy to support his claim that it was all a fabrication by the media with actual evidence - or anything at all beyond his "word" - which, of course, he didnt't bother doing, I DID provide him with several reports among a lot of existing ones, that clearly show the criticism comes from numerous credible sources that have nothing to do with media drama, as he claims.

So instead of doing what any moderately logical and reasonable person would do, that is, to either support buddy's claims or counter the ones I've easily provided with actual evidence of his or your own, you both instead choose to stall, distract from your shortcomings by making ridiculous, inane comments. Yah, yah, yah. Blah blah all you want but you still haven't come up with anything in addressing the actual topic we're discussing. It doesn't actually make look better or save face FYI it makes you look even worse and pretty petty. You should both learn when to cut your losses and still retain some dignity when you bow out quietly - instead of keep digging your hole and put your ignorance on display and attract everyone's attention to your shortcomings.

But suit yourself, keep digging all you want.

mik said:

Yes, you are absolutely right.

vancity_cowboy · Mar 24, 2013

regarding the 'muzzled' scientists, an ole buckaroo I knew once told me, when you are faced with having to do something that you object to, you really only have one of three choices:

1) you can put up with it, or
2) you can try to change it

but if you can't put up with it, and you can't change it

3) you have to quit it

words to live by

so far I haven't seen a real rush for the door by federal scientists

HankQuinlan · Mar 24, 2013

vancity_cowboy said:
regarding the 'muzzled' scientists, an ole buckaroo I knew once told me, when you are faced with having to do something that you object to, you really only have one of three choices:

1) you can put up with it, or
2) you can try to change it

but if you can't put up with it, and you can't change it

3) you have to quit it

words to live by

so far I haven't seen a real rush for the door by federal scientists

I am sure many of them are trying to change it. And rather than trying to find new careers, I am sure many of them are hoping for change -- and in the meantime, are waiting it out in the hope the current federal regime is changed (which it inevitably will be, sooner or later). The closer you are are to retirement, the more you will put up with...that applies to any career.

storm rider · Mar 24, 2013

HankQuinlan said:
I am sure many of them are trying to change it. And rather than trying to find new careers, I am sure many of them are hoping for change -- and in the meantime, are waiting it out in the hope the current federal regime is changed (which it inevitably will be, sooner or later). The closer you are are to retirement, the more you will put up with...that applies to any career.

And how does that apply to people who invented/made their jobs?

Also how does it apply to the scientists/global warming crowd who skewed/falsified/lied about their research
to discredit other scientists so as to keep their jobs as well as the funding they receive?

How does it affect the ultimate champion of the environment and the supposed savior of the planet with regards to the evil of "global warming" who is Al Gore.....a man who purposely causes 100 X the amount of those evil "green house gases" that I produce in a single year of driving....his purpose is of course is to get his speaking/appearance fees......such a noble person...he could do it via video conference BUT....he would not get paid.

When I was growing up I was never asked if I wanted to be a "climatologist" or anything like it.
It is a made up job by people who have a vested interest in their own made up jobs.

Al Gore lives in a home far bigger than I own...same goes for David Suzuki.....nice big palatial homes.
They also have logged more miles in the air in the last year than I have driven in the last 10 years.

"Global Warming" got it's balls busted by Climate Gate,since then the new avenue is called "Climate Change"...either way it is all BS as you cant predict the next 500,000 years of weather based on
the last 50 years of information.Anybody that tries to sell that is selling you snake oil and with their own vested interests in mind.

DavidMR · Mar 24, 2013

vancity_cowboy said:
regarding the 'muzzled' scientists, an ole buckaroo I knew once told me, when you are faced with having to do something that you object to, you really only have one of three choices:

1) you can put up with it, or
2) you can try to change it

but if you can't put up with it, and you can't change it

3) you have to quit it

words to live by

so far I haven't seen a real rush for the door by federal scientists

When was the last time you followed any of this sage advice yourself?

DavidMR · Mar 24, 2013

storm rider said:
Also how does it apply to the scientists/global warming crowd who skewed/falsified/lied about their research
to discredit other scientists so as to keep their jobs as well as the funding they receive?...

Al Gore lives in a home far bigger than I own...same goes for David Suzuki.....nice big palatial homes.
They also have logged more miles in the air in the last year than I have driven in the last 10 years.

BC's yahoo tradition of know nothing populism is alive and well. Unfortunately.

Neither David Suzuki nor Al Gore is a Canadian federal government scientist.

http://www.pipsc.ca/portal/page/portal/website/issues/science/aaas

mik · Mar 24, 2013

storm rider said:
And how does that apply to people who invented/made their jobs?

Also how does it apply to the scientists/global warming crowd who skewed/falsified/lied about their research
to discredit other scientists so as to keep their jobs as well as the funding they receive?

How does it affect the ultimate champion of the environment and the supposed savior of the planet with regards to the evil of "global warming" who is Al Gore.....a man who purposely causes 100 X the amount of those evil "green house gases" that I produce in a single year of driving....his purpose is of course is to get his speaking/appearance fees......such a noble person...he could do it via video conference BUT....he would not get paid.

When I was growing up I was never asked if I wanted to be a "climatologist" or anything like it.
It is a made up job by people who have a vested interest in their own made up jobs.

Al Gore lives in a home far bigger than I own...same goes for David Suzuki.....nice big palatial homes.
They also have logged more miles in the air in the last year than I have driven in the last 10 years.

"Global Warming" got it's balls busted by Climate Gate,since then the new avenue is called "Climate Change"...either way it is all BS as you cant predict the next 500,000 years of weather based on
the last 50 years of information.Anybody that tries to sell that is selling you snake oil and with their own vested interests in mind.

HankQuinlan · Mar 24, 2013

storm rider said:
And how does that apply to people who invented/made their jobs?

Also how does it apply to the scientists/global warming crowd who skewed/falsified/lied about their research
to discredit other scientists so as to keep their jobs as well as the funding they receive?

How does it affect the ultimate champion of the environment and the supposed savior of the planet with regards to the evil of "global warming" who is Al Gore.....a man who purposely causes 100 X the amount of those evil "green house gases" that I produce in a single year of driving....his purpose is of course is to get his speaking/appearance fees......such a noble person...he could do it via video conference BUT....he would not get paid.

When I was growing up I was never asked if I wanted to be a "climatologist" or anything like it.
It is a made up job by people who have a vested interest in their own made up jobs.

Al Gore lives in a home far bigger than I own...same goes for David Suzuki.....nice big palatial homes.
They also have logged more miles in the air in the last year than I have driven in the last 10 years.

"Global Warming" got it's balls busted by Climate Gate,since then the new avenue is called "Climate Change"...either way it is all BS as you cant predict the next 500,000 years of weather based on
the last 50 years of information.Anybody that tries to sell that is selling you snake oil and with their own vested interests in mind.

And what does any of this have anything whatsoever to do with the Harper government muzzling scientific research? (Well I suppose it does, since science in general might get in the way of ideology.)

Miss*Bijou · Mar 25, 2013

storm rider said:
Also how does it apply to the scientists/global warming crowd who skewed/falsified/lied about their research
to discredit other scientists so as to keep their jobs as well as the funding they receive?

How does it affect the ultimate champion of the environment and the supposed savior of the planet with regards to the evil of "global warming" who is Al Gore.....a man who purposely causes 100 X the amount of those evil "green house gases" that I produce in a single year of driving....his purpose is of course is to get his speaking/appearance fees......such a noble person...he could do it via video conference BUT....he would not get paid.

When I was growing up I was never asked if I wanted to be a "climatologist" or anything like it.
It is a made up job by people who have a vested interest in their own made up jobs.

Al Gore lives in a home far bigger than I own...same goes for David Suzuki.....nice big palatial homes.
They also have logged more miles in the air in the last year than I have driven in the last 10 years.

"Global Warming" got it's balls busted by Climate Gate,since then the new avenue is called "Climate Change"...either way it is all BS as you cant predict the next 500,000 years of weather based on
the last 50 years of information.Anybody that tries to sell that is selling you snake oil and with their own vested interests in mind.

I can't believe I just read that.

Who gives a crap about Al Gore and David Suzuki? That's your argument? Get real!

You know, you might want to be informed, keep up with the news because there was no "climate gate". At least 5 separate investigations came to the same conclusion..... 3 years ago!!

By 2011, five separate investigations by the British government and multiple independent ethics committees had been completed. None found any evidence of fraud or manipulation of data. The CRU data was also independently replicated.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Climategate

It was extensively covered - this is only one of them:

How the 'climategate' scandal is bogus and based on climate sceptics' lies
Claims based on email soundbites are demonstrably false – there is manifestly no evidence of clandestine data manipulation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/09/climategate-bogus-sceptics-lies

Who even said anything about the next 500 000 years? Where did that even come from?

And lastly, you do realize there are hundreds of other types of scientists employed by the government, right? And that whether you like to wear tin foil hats and say nonsense about climate change, that isn't any kind of valid or reasonable argument or an excuse for muzzling science and scientists in Canada...right? Or is that what you're actually arguing in support of?

Seriously, stop digging - I mean, this is ridiculous.

Miss*Bijou · Mar 26, 2013

.

Because I still can't believe there are people who clearly have no clue what is at stake, I'm posting this.

It's from the Introduction of the book The Ecological Rift: Capitalism's War on the Earth
by John Bellamy Foster, Brett Clark and Richard York and it gives a short overview.

You can click on the image if you need to zoom in. I hope you take the time to read it.

(Feel free to download it for free - epub format -or- mobi format if you're interested in reading the whole book..)

Miss*Bijou · Apr 1, 2013

I just came across the best site for debunking silly climate change deniers and just had to add it to this thread.
This page debunks all of the arguments one by one.. Awesome.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Search

Fraser Institute says ignore Mulcair, our air is good

mik

Banned

DavidMR

New member

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member

storm rider

Banned

DavidMR

New member

DavidMR

New member

mik

Banned

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker