Enough is enough!!
- Thread starter Ilovethemall
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thanks for the clarification
OK - thanks for clarifying who you are.
First off, there is hardly a country in the world that hasn't been invaded by someone - so using that as an excuse for terrorism is just pathetic. Is the West always right - of course not. But last time I checked, we weren't smuggling bombs on airliners or shooting them down. Now, before you go off on Israel shelling Lebanon and that being tantamount to terrorism, Hezbollah seems quite happy to launch a couple of hundred rockets a day into Israel and yet I see no criticsm of them from you. All I see is justification for violence, which by the way just incites more of these nuts to blow up planes.
If Israel started shooting down Arab airliners, I can only imagine the outcry from the entire world - and rightfully so. But, when the terrorists do it - we get to hear from apologists that try and justify it. There is no justification for mass murder.
It is abhorrent that Israel is shelling areas with civillians - but it is even worse that Hezbollah hides there like cowards.
People can protest and burn all the flags they want but when they try and kill me or mine - then Canada has to consider itself at war and act accordingly. If you don't like it, I'm sure there are flights to a Muslim country of your choice.
OK - thanks for clarifying who you are.
First off, there is hardly a country in the world that hasn't been invaded by someone - so using that as an excuse for terrorism is just pathetic. Is the West always right - of course not. But last time I checked, we weren't smuggling bombs on airliners or shooting them down. Now, before you go off on Israel shelling Lebanon and that being tantamount to terrorism, Hezbollah seems quite happy to launch a couple of hundred rockets a day into Israel and yet I see no criticsm of them from you. All I see is justification for violence, which by the way just incites more of these nuts to blow up planes.
If Israel started shooting down Arab airliners, I can only imagine the outcry from the entire world - and rightfully so. But, when the terrorists do it - we get to hear from apologists that try and justify it. There is no justification for mass murder.
It is abhorrent that Israel is shelling areas with civillians - but it is even worse that Hezbollah hides there like cowards.
People can protest and burn all the flags they want but when they try and kill me or mine - then Canada has to consider itself at war and act accordingly. If you don't like it, I'm sure there are flights to a Muslim country of your choice.
the day....
The day I ask for your help, those asswads have already won - just don't expect mine.
The day I ask for your help, those asswads have already won - just don't expect mine.
I guess we could start by profiling all the people who resemble the oklahoma bombers, (gulf war vets) would this mean we would have to have profiling for all the U.S. Military Personal.Ilovethemall said:
Please lets not loose our heads and our rights over this
cheers
profiling is NOT racist
What's the fucking problem with profiling? What we're talking about is singling out for special scrutiny people who are more likely to be potential risks. We are not talking about locking up, torturing , or killing them - just checking them out. Contrast this with the Muslim terrrorists who kidnap, toture and murder innocent civilians.Moose said:
I have not only been in a Muslim country, I was born, raised and grew up in the biggest muslim country in the world. I still have extended family and friends living there too. There are mosques in very blocks. There are 4 speakers in each corner of the mosque to boradcast what the clerics preach. I couldn't avoid not hearing what he said since my house was located right accross from the mosque and the speakers were so loud, I kid you not these clerics actually encouraged their people to kill the non believers for each non believer that he/she ( the muslim) kills it'll earn them right to go to meet Allah in heaven. The clerics preach are so full of so much hatred against anybody who is not Islam and these hatred speech are broadcasted daily in to the audience in the mosque and to everyone else who could hear it through the speakers. What did I end up with? Dead friend in a process attending a Misa on Christmas Eve. Discrimination, cruelty, etc. Have you ever been to the orphanage of Moluccas children who witnessed their parents slaughtered by the Muslim militiamen in their own homes while sleeping? And what about the East Timorese people which are Catholics who got invaded by Indonesia and 1/3 of their population were killed by the Indonesian millitary who are Muslim? Remember Dili Massacre where hundreds of students were shot and killed while they were praying in a cemetary and other hundreds are still missing. Or what about the Chinese Indonesians who are not Muslims but majorly discriminated they even have these legislation law called pp 10/1959 which is a discriminatory law against Chinese Indonesians.bernini said:
-PP 10/1959, which forced Indonesian Chinese to close their businesses by 1 January 1960 and relocate in urban areas.
-Presidium Directive 127/U/Kep/12/1966 that explicitly requires Indonesian Chinese to adopt Indonesian-sounding names.
-Cabinet Presidium Instruction No. 37/U/IN/6/1967, which prohibits further residency or work permits to new Chinese immigrants, their wives, or children; freezing any capital raised by "foreigners" in Indonesia; closure of "foreign" schools except for diplomatic corps and their families; the number of Indonesian students must be the majority and in proportion to "foreigners" in any state schools; and that implementation of the "Chinese issue" will henceforth be the responsibility of the minister for political affairs.
-Presidential Instruction No. 14/1967 (Inpres No. 14/1967) on Chinese Religion, Beliefs, and Traditions, which effectively ban any Chinese literatures and cultures in Indonesia, including the prohibition of Chinese characters. Although Chinese names are not explicitly mentioned, "newly naturalized" Indonesian Chinese were strongly advised to do so. (Annulled by former president Abdurrahman Wahid in Keppres No. 6/2000; annulment supported by former president Megawati Soekarnoputri in Keppres No 19/2002 by declaring Chinese New Year as national holiday)
-Resolution of the Provisional People's Consultative Assembly no. 32, 1966 (TAP MPRS No. 32/1966) expressly bans the use of Chinese characters in public.
-Presidium Directive No. 240/1967 (Inpres No. 240/1967) which mandates assimilation of "foreigners" and support the previous directive of 127/U/Kep/12/1966 for Indonesian Chinese to adopt Indonesian-sounding names.
-Home Affairs Ministry No. 455.2-360/1988 on Regulation of Temples, which effectively and severely restrict building or repairing Chinese temples.
-Circular of the Director General for Press and Graphics Guidance in the Ministry of Information No.02/SE/Ditjen-PPGK/1988, which further restrict the usage of Chinese language and/or characters.
-Instruction of the Ministry of Home Affairs No. X01/1977 on Implementing Instructions for Population Registration and the confidential instructions No.3.462/1.755.6 of the Jakarta government January 28, 1980 both authorize special codes in national identification cards to indicate ethnic Chinese origin. The code was "A01" prefix.
-Cabinet Presidium Circular SE-06/Pres-Kab/6/1967 on Changing the Term China and Chinese, requires the usage of the term "Cina" (which is considered a derogatory term by many Chinese Indonesians) instead of "Tionghoa" (as ethnic Chinese refer to themselves).
Most Indonesian Chinese are not Muslim, further fomenting negative sentiments from the mostly Muslim native Indonesians. This is ironic in light of the fact that some of the earliest Muslim evangelists in Java (who were called the Wali Songo or 'The Nine Ambassadors') were of Chinese ancestry. A historical theory even suggests that the first people who brought Islamic faith to Indonesia were the Chinese traders, especially those who came to Semarang under the leadership of Sam Po Kong or Admiral Zheng He (Zheng He himself was not a Han, but a Muslim from a minority ethnic group in China).
Various government policies banned Chinese language teaching, speaking, and publication. Established schools and colleges run by Chinese-Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation and converted to state or pribumi-run schools, such as Universitas Res Publica, which became Universitas Trisakti. A presidential directive forced Indonesian Chinese to abandon their Chinese names and adopt Indonesian names. Anti-Chinese sentiments increased among the pribumi Indonesians and anti-Chinese pogroms were frequent.
In identity cards, all Chinese Indonesians were designated as "WNI" (Warga Negara Indonesia = Citizen of Indonesia), a euphemism for "ethnic Chinese" as opposed to just "Indonesian" for the pribumi Indonesians. This made it easy for government officials to extract bribes and side payments, and has been compared to Jews under Hitler being required to wear the Star of David badge on their chests. Ethnic Chinese must hold certificates of having rejected Chinese citizenship, despite being native-born and having lived in Indonesia for generations.
These highly discriminatory laws are believed by some as a concerted government effort at cultural genocide
Those Chinese Indonesians who could not stand the discrimination fled. The Totoks returned to mainland China (only to catch themselves trapped in Cultural Revolution), and the Peranakans to the old masters' country, the Netherlands.
In 1998, preceding the fall of Suharto's 32-year presidency, big riots targeted the Chinese Indonesians, pogrom style. It is verified and confirmed that Chinese homes were looted and burned, and many Chinese people were raped or killed[3]. The events in 1998 were significant because unlike earlier pogroms against Indonesian Chinese, due to the Internet this incident spread world wide in real-time, arousing the interest and feelings of the ethnic Chinese in China and other countries, leading to demonstrations against Indonesia in many countries with significant Chinese populations and protests to the government of Indonesia. After the tragedy, a large number of Chinese Indonesians fled to other countries, such as USA, Australia, Singapore, and the Netherlands. Adding insult to injury, Habibie, the unpopular president after Suharto, ridiculed the fleeing Chinese as being unpatriotic. Ironically, Habibie himself left Indonesia to live in Germany after his performance report (pidato pertanggungjawaban) was rejected by the new, democratically elected parliament in 1999.
Because of discrimination, most Chinese Indonesians were not politically active and could not lobby for legislation to protect their own interests despite their economical affluence.
These very racist law were invented by the Muslim Indonesian government. And yet no one speak up about these mistreatments the Chinese Indonesians have gone through for almost 50 years. And what about the Chinese Indonesians massacre during the 1998 riot in Indonesia that killed hundreds if not thousands of Chinese Indonesians, their cars, houses, businesses looted and burnt down, their women even little girls and old women raped?
Chinese Indonesians couldn't openly celebrate Chinese traditions, be proud of and embrace their cultures. They can't even have Chinese names or speak Chinese. Notice why so many Indonesians Chinese have no Chinese last names nor do they speak any Chinese?
If white supremists were to start killing people right now we'd expend great resources to stop them. I do not see muslims (non-extremists) spending anytime trying to find the "so-called handful" of bad apples (terrorists). Instead they condone and dare I say support the behavior. When was the last time a headline read that a Muslim leader had captured a terrorist and was planning to prosecute them?Moose said:
Hmmm, I guess you missed the post from Gravitas slamming various members. Ohh, I forgot, there are different rules for members who used to be moderators.BcMod said:
I agree. None of the people who were responsible for Dili Massacre in East Timor, the muslim militiamen who slaughtered the villagers in Moluccas and Poso ever been brought to justice. The Indonesian Muslim government even condoned the cultural genocides with their very racist law against the chinese which is known as an anti chinese legislation law or PP10/1959. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_legislation_in_Indonesia The Chinese Indonesians have been repressed, harrased, discriminated, humiliated, killed, tortured, raped but yet you never see or hear any of them becoming or training to be a suicide bomber or make a homemade bombs to kill people.Damaged said:
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Peculiar Christians to be sure (mind you, to me all Christians are profoundly peculiar), but Christians nonetheless. A religion that professes a belief in Jesus Christ, as the Jehovah's Witnesses do, is a Christian religion. Much of the focus of this religion is on the second coming of Christ, actually.metoo113 said:
Listen, sorry about your bad luck. But don't quote MY comments if you are going to go on about Chinese-Indonesian/Muslim relations. I didn't refer to that situation because it is something that I don't know much about. But thank you for the history lesson. I appreciate the passion that has fuelled your remarks and you have obviously had experiences that many of us could never understand. The references you have made are quite shocking and as true as they may be, they are YOUR experiences. Not mine.Batman02 said:
The time I have spent amongst the Muslim community has been anything but repressive or tyrannical. And as unlucky as your situation has been, mine has been the opposite. I am not going to change my beliefs. Terrible people are everywhere. Some are religious, and some are political. None of us will be able to change that. So if you are going to try to find somebody to point a finger at and accuse of being ignorant, point it somewhere else. Because the Muslims that I have had experience with, are obviously different than the Muslims that YOU have had experience with. And by coming on here and spreading more fear about a Group of People that most of these PERBERTS know nothing about, you are only helping to widen the gap and breed more fear and hatred. Because Redneck White Guys get scared easily. Just look at the White House.
I quoted you because I know that I spent longer time in a Muslim country longer than you have. In fact, I still have many family members living there. I know and first hand experienced how difficult it is to be a non muslim in a muslim country. And I can attest to your statement that my experience is VERY different than yours. I am not Chinese, where did I ever mention in my post that I'm Chinese. I'm native Indonesian who happen to be a non Muslim. I mentioned the situation about the Chinese Indonesians as one of the examples of non muslims being mistreated in a muslim country. Other examples are, people of Poso, Moluccas, East Timor and Bali. They are not of Chinese origins and they have also been targeted by the Muslims. Bali bombings, Poso bombings, Moluccas bombings, Dili massacre. I am not spreading fear, I speak it as it is. Even if I don't mention it, it's on the internet, the tv news, newspaper. You said that I am spreading fears? Just because your experiences are different than mine, so I can't write about my experiences that are the opposite of yours? Because if I do then it means I'm pointing fingers and spreading fears? Do you want me to cover up about this Group of People who actually very much exists that most PERBERTS know nothing about and just covered up the ugly truths because you just want the good experiences be told but the ugly truths be hidden. You're saying people shouldn't be told about the truths shouldn't be told because they're too ugly? or do you just want me to just sugar coated everything and change the facts that is written in history that many Muslims Indonesians have targeted anyone who are not muslims and the sufferings that many muslims have suffered? I'm not pointing any fingers, it is in the history, it is the fact. I can't change the facts of history. You are entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to mine. You're saying I'm spreading fears? Have you ever have any of your loved ones, friends, relatives, killed because of their faith? I have experienced that so don't tell me that I'm spreading fear. It did happen, it is the fact and it is what it is. I'm not asking you to change your beliefs. I tell it like it is. The way they treat their women you don't call that repressive and Is not tyrannical that people can't convert to other religions once they're a Muslim?bernini said:
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Can I hear a "hell yeah"FuZzYknUckLeS said:So WHAT THE FUCK was this supposed liquid anyhow?!!! I guess that's a secret? And how did they discover it? Oooooh! Mysterious liquid!!!! Oooooh! Be afraid!
NO details about the weapon.
NO details about the discovery process.
NO details about the arrested suspects.
Fer fuk sakes.
No wonder there are conspiracy theorists.
This shit's gettin' old.
Maybe I'll chill tonite and go see World Trade Centre which, coincidentally, just happens to open in theatres today on this side of the Atlantic...
Point taken.Damaged said:
I'm very proud of the fact I'm was born and raised in Canada. I'm very much more a Canadian then I am Chinese. If China ever went to war with the Western countries, would I be profiled as a Chinese spy because had the same backround as them? To me, this is very scary thought. This is what is wrong with profiling.PeterLongwood said:
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